# Raise the Gas Tax. A Lot. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335 "2015-01-30T16:01:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/61 "2015-01-31T17:25:41Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > The US is much larger geographically. Drivers are required to drive further distances. The UK is a tiny little island. The amount of gas needed for your average UK road trip is a lot lot less. Similar gas tax rates in the US and UK would hurt US drivers substantially more. Generally im against taxes that penalise people for “bad behaviour”. This reminds me of an interview I saw with Ian McKellen. He said he was in Hollywood, and was astounded by all of the people driving cars. He suggested that people who work in Hollywood should just move closer to their jobs. It’s easy for someone worth millions of dollars to say, ‘Well, just move closer!’ But it’s harder if your salary is more modest when you live in L.A. Yes, there are cheaper apartments (‘cheaper’ being a relative term) in Hollywood; and i think they have rent control. But there aren’t enough for everyone who works there, and rents are higher than in other places. The few times I’ve used buses in L.A., they were awful. (L.A. could take some lessons from Seattle, IMO.) For most people, driving is mandatory. While I, a single person, could get most of my groceries into a backpack, and I rode my motorcycle most of the time, this isn’t an option for people with families or who need to carry things with them. (I’d hate to have to carry a cleaning cart on a Yamaha!) Since people without a lot of money tend to_have_ to drive more and can’t afford to go out and buy a Prius (even used ones are costly) or Leaf, an increased gas tax would hit them disproportionately hard. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/62 "2015-01-31T17:31:29Z")
Nearly every product Americans use was divered by truck at some point, that cost will go up. Some people use more gas than others, but poor people don’t significantly use less gas so this idea will cost them disproportunatly more. So instead of taxing people on a scale based on their income, we’re going to tax everyone the same amount? this is worse than the Flat Tax idea. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/63 "2015-01-31T17:45:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > In a recent column in the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/2015/01/08/5b4b407c-976f-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html), Krauthammer argues that this is the perfect time to raise the gas tax. He’s an idiot. It will go straight on inflation and fuel isn’t going to stay this cheap. Businesses will pass the increase straight on to customers, a lot of people will find their commuting costs soar, hitting the poorest hardest. People won’t be willing to drive as far to shops or entertainment venues. Farmers will be hit very hard. You might note that here in the U.K. we have red diesel specifically for farmers which is normal fuel with a colour additive and has much less duty paid. The increase in fuel duty will significantly reduce employee mobility and therefore increase unemployment because people will no longer be able to afford to commute so far afield. Actually, the impact could be catastrophic. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/64 "2015-01-31T17:50:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Since people without a lot of money tend to_have_ to drive more and can’t afford to go out and buy a Prius (even used ones are costly) or Leaf, an increased gas tax would hit them disproportionately hard. That is why most of the ones I have seen from the environmental and economical side talk about a gradual increase, And the point should be that it is a carbon tax, the emissions are the issue. Krauthammer’s concern is not much environmental in this case but it is more into reducing taxes on social security (and other programs) and using the fuel tax revenue to cover the difference. If the environment is the issue Economists like Nordhaus do not propose such an increase, it should be gradual and subsidies for the poor and public transportation should be considered. Here Nordhaus referring to what Yale university should do on their own: > **[Task force gathers opinions on a Yale carbon tax](https://news.yale.edu/2014/11/07/task-force-gathers-opinions-yale-carbon-tax)** > > A campus forum on the idea of a Yale carbon tax brought up everything from making university departments more aware of their energy usage to getting professors to shut off their computers at night. Overall, the students, faculty, and staff who... > [@](#): > > The task force also must determine whether a carbon tax would be in the form of a monetary charge. If so, what would be done with that revenue? “The ultimate goal of the charge would be to reduce emissions,” Milikowsky said. “It’s not to raise revenue.” > > William Nordhaus, Sterling Professor of Economics and chair of the task force, suggested the best way to implement a carbon tax would be to include as many sectors of the university as possible. It could be phased in gradually, but take in a broad range of people, departments and activities. > > “It’s not just students. It’s also faculty,” Nordhaus said. He added that working on the task force has shown him that some university departments never see their own energy bills. > > “Does anyone around the university who flips a switch see a bill?” Nordhaus asked. > > Another student member of the task force, Sophie Janaskie ’15 of Yale College, outlined some basics of Yale’s energy consumption. The university uses 3.6 million MMBTU a year, across about 300 buildings. It is the energy use equivalent of 19,000 Connecticut households. Yale generates approximately 60% of its own power at its two co-generation power plants. The remaining electricity is purchased from the local electric utility, United Illuminating Co. Natural gas is purchased from Southern Connecticut Gas to power the power plants. > > The university has an ambitious, ongoing sustainability effort in place to curb energy use and reduce its carbon footprint. The exploration of a carbon tax is part of that campus-wide effort. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/65 "2015-01-31T20:15:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s easy for someone worth millions of dollars to say, …pretty much anything. They don’t call it “limousine liberalism” fer nothin’. I’m generally willing to tolerate a celebrity speaking up for general problems - for awareness, lending their big megaphone to problems that go under most people’s radar. But when they start making specific suggestions about how individuals and communities should solve problems, they usually make huge Clydesdale asses of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/66 "2015-01-31T20:17:33Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > This isn’t a tax increase for most people, though. Most people will get back the money in their payroll tax. Some will pay more, some less. The only people having an abrupt change of any significance would be people who drive much more than average. > > I’m with you on making changes slowly in principal, though. But I’d argue that the benefits of this change outweigh the negatives. It’s sort of the same thing as simplification of the tax code. That might mean negative consequences if it’s abrupt. But it would be worth it because it’s so desperately needed. I’m still suspicious. What’s the hurry? Make both changes happen slowly. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/67 "2015-01-31T21:11:38Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > …pretty much anything. They don’t call it “limousine liberalism” fer nothin’. > > I’m generally willing to tolerate a celebrity speaking up for general problems - for awareness, lending their big megaphone to problems that go under most people’s radar. But when they start making specific suggestions about how individuals and communities should solve problems, they usually make huge Clydesdale asses of themselves. Excuse me, but since when is Krauthammer considered a “limousine liberal”? He is actually very independent but on foreign policy he matches what the hawks do and say and he is very iffy on the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/68 "2015-01-31T22:16:25Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I’d like to see this addressed. I am a realtor, and there is no way to trim my “commute”. I’ll try. If the tax is phased in slowly, you can buy a lower mileage car, when it comes time to replace your old vehicle. In fact, that’s where much of the gas savings will come from. But in the end, it’s about paying your way. Your car pollutes: it damages health and the environment just as your and my electricity usage does. Now that’s not saying that we should pursue a zero emission strategy: I don’t want that. What it does mean though is just as you pay rent for the cost of your housing and just as anything you buy reflects cost of labor and machines, so you should pay for the damage that your car emissions do. In today’s world almost everyone is a moocher now. For most people gas is maybe 1/2 of one percent of their budget. But for a few (like perhaps you) it will be substantially more. Part of the cost of doing business. Maybe you want to vote with your pocketbook though. That’s fine. I just want to be clear about what is happening. Those with low incomes could have their tax rates tweaked to compensate them for higher fuel costs. But realtors and salesmen? That will hit them, just like another war in the middle east would. The market price of oil before taxes is about $60 a barrel now. Most of us here will see it at $200 at some point. I’d rather keep a higher chunk of that revenue in the US. > [@Voyager](#): > > That’s from 1991. I wonder if it still true today. Your average Tesla owner is not low income. In my part of California, at least, there is status in high mileage cars. SUVs are selling pretty well in Texas, according to a recent article in the Economist. I also skimmed “The Empirical Research on the Social Equity of Gas Taxes, Emissions Fees, and Congestion Charges”, (2009) by an analyst I had not heard of. It said: [INDENT]General gas and emissions charges are expected to cost low-income households about 0.2 percent of their annual income, without tax shifting. … Low-income drivers pay, on average, somewhere between 0.1 to 0.5 percent of household income for most proposed taxes and fees as they are spread across a large tax base of drivers. Fairly high, comprehensive tolling schemes which affect a smaller subset of drivers are expected to take a higher percentage, as much as 2 percent of household income for those with under $25,000 a year. Yet low-income drivers are expected to be a small portion of premium transportation service users in most metropolitan regions. Gas taxes have been found to be regressive, in general, but with an out-of-pocket cost estimate of $180 a year per household per car, the Federal gas tax is hardly a prohibitive sum. [But] It is important to remember that this is not the total operating expense associated with gasoline or with mobility, or even the total transport tax burden, which would include state and local taxes, registration fees, and tolls. [/INDENT] That wasn’t addressing a one dollar per gallon tax plan though. I think the qualitative point remains: “Regressive, but not as bad as you might think and at any rate legislators can and do soften the blow”. Krauthammer likes the gas tax because it hits the Saudis hard. In other words, he wants **Sateryn76** to pay for his foreign policy goals. I want a higher carbon tax, which will hit coal harder than oil and oil harder than natural gas. I’d phase it in slowly, but we really should have started the process in the early 1990s. Also modern conservatives have a history of floating counter-plans when liberals try to address policy issues. Tradeable emission permits were pushed by conservatives for example, until they reached the point where they were actually proposed in Congress. So in practice expect Krauthammer to oppose gas taxes: congress will reasonably want to set aside some of the proceeds for infrastructure, the budget deficit or the military and Krauthammer will balk. That’s not _my plan_ he will say, even if it included a tax cut. We could take such people seriously. But that would be immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/69 "2015-01-31T22:57:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Excuse me, but since when is Krauthammer considered a “limousine liberal”? He is actually very independent but on foreign policy he matches what the hawks do and say and he is very iffy on the environment. The poster was replying to someone quoting Sir Ian McKellen. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/70 "2015-01-31T23:14:42Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Hey, everybody, it looks like we can’t have roads and bridges that won’t kill you. I’m sorry, it’s just the way it is. The poor can’t afford to repair them. Look, we’re just going to have to let all the bridges fall down. It’s either that or make the poor pay for something, so I really don’t know what you expect me to do, here. Wow. Three fallacies in four sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/71 "2015-01-31T23:18:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Excuse me, but since when is Krauthammer considered a “limousine liberal”? He’s not, as **Fuzzy\_wuzzy** pointed out; I was referring to moo’stars prating about the options of the little people. K. is just an idiot (with a name that wouldn’t survive the first cut of a B-movie script, were he a character). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/72 "2015-01-31T23:20:31Z")
Why aren’t all government fees and taxes indexed to inflation? This is basic math here, something that should kind of being a requirement for competency in. So you’re cooking up a law. Doesn’t matter what it is. You decide that it’s **wrong** to speed, so you decide on a $100 fine. Ok, great. That’s now the law of the land. Speed and pay $100. But then years pass, and inflation makes that $100 now only equivalent to $20 in the currency in effect when the law was written. Now speeding is no big deal. Oops. Same thing for gas taxes. “This smoke is polluting our cities and also those gas powered vehicles put wear on our roads. Heavier vehicles cause more wear and also consume more gas, so we can sort of charge people for the road repair by making them pay per gallon”. It’s a no shit, no way anyone with a basic brain could screw it up, concept that you need to make **all** government fees, taxes, etc indexed to inflation so that they have the same _consistent_ effect over time. The same obviously goes for outgoing money as well. Decide that doing action “X” is worth a $1000 tax credit? Index that to inflation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/73 "2015-01-31T23:23:21Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > The poster was replying to someone quoting Sir Ian McKellen. Well, I was following the context of the OP, but the criticism against McKellen sounds misguided, one should remember that “diving is mandatory” for many in America because in many places of the USA there has not been a good effort to make more investments in public transportation. (And while it is not as important a conspiracy as was assumed, the dismantling of many tramway in cities was due in part due to the intervention by auto companies, nowadays we can see many cities reintroducing rail transit but I should say that at a higher cost than if we had kept or improved the old rail systems.) There are also the reports pointing at the millennial generation as not being so enamored of cars as the previous generations and are more willing to, indeed, “just move closer!” and live in the cities. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/14/the-many-reasons-millennials-are-shunning-cars/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/14/the-many-reasons-millennials-are-shunning-cars/) > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > He’s not, as **Fuzzy\_wuzzy** pointed out; I was referring to moo’stars prating about the options of the little people. Well, as I mentioned I was following the celebrity pundit of the OP. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > K. is just an idiot (with a name that wouldn’t survive the first cut of a B-movie script, were he a character). 🙂 On that we agree. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/74 "2015-01-31T23:48:57Z")
Ian McKellan might be right in principle. What he might not realize is that since WWII, our cities have been designed such that individuals can do little to change the situation simply by moving closer. Too many places have mandated low-density housing, grid-pattern street layouts, residential-only zoning, subsidized utilities and services to inefficient suburbs, destruction of public transportation, etc. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/75 "2015-02-01T00:01:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Ian McKellan might be right in principle. What he might not realize is that since WWII, our cities have been designed such that individuals can do little to change the situation simply by moving closer. Too many places have mandated low-density housing, grid-pattern street layouts, residential-only zoning, subsidized utilities and services to inefficient suburbs, destruction of public transportation, etc. I think that since he is “Sir” Ian Mckellan it is safe to assume that as a wealthy British guy he may not realize the situation indeed. IMHO that does not show McKellan as more misguided than what the USA did in general in the past. What I’m trying to say is that we should look at what Mckellan said and wonder if we can do better as many millennials are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/76 "2015-02-01T02:10:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m still suspicious. What’s the hurry? Make both changes happen slowly. Isn’t the answer obvious? A proposal to gradually increase one tax and gradually decrease another inevitably results in one outcome. The increase occurs. The decrease never actually happens. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/77 "2015-02-01T02:15:40Z")
Reagan increased social security taxes and cut taxes on higher income groups. On net. Taxes decrease all the time – if they didn’t, there wouldn’t be tax lobbyists. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/78 "2015-02-01T02:35:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > For most people gas is maybe 1/2 of one percent of their budget. But for a few (like perhaps you) it will be substantially more. Part of the cost of doing business. Do you have a cite for that? That seems awfully small. For me, a guy with a 20 min commute, I spend ~$120/month for gas, my SAHM wife pays about that amount too. That’s nowhere near 0.5 - 1% of our income. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/79 "2015-02-01T03:02:07Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? That seems awfully small. For me, a guy with a 20 min commute, I spend ~$120/month for gas, my SAHM wife pays about that amount too. That’s nowhere near 0.5 - 1% of our income. Good catch: I screwed up. I was eyeballing a paper I pulled from the internet and basically took the figure for gasoline _taxes_. The Porterba paper gives gasoline/motor oil expenditures divided by income, by income decile for 1986. Prices were in the $25-$40 range then, below today’s ~$50 level. All numbers inflation adjusted. Better give a cite for real price history: [Crude Oil Prices - 70 Year Historical Chart | MacroTrends](http://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart) **Porterba: 1986** Poorest decile: 11.44% 2nd decile: 6.54% middle decile: 4.97% 2nd to top decile: 3.56% Top decile: 2.40% Porterba points out that if you divide by expenditure then the relationship is flatter: Poorest decile: 3.70% middle: 5.17% Top: 3.2% Ave: 4.76% How does this compare with more recent data? “Gasoline expenditures in 2012 for the average U.S. household reached $2,912, or just under 4% of income before taxes, according to EIA estimates.” There’s a chart [here](http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9831): shares have generally rose since 2003, though I anticipate a sharp decline for 2015. Gas “reached” $3.70 a gallon in 2012. Add a dollar to that and you get a 27% price increase - so it would go from 4% of income to maybe 5% when prices recover. Roughly speaking, obviously. Apologies for the errors. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/80 "2015-02-01T03:35:57Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Didn’t read the article or any of the posts in the thread, huh? Believe it or not, I read every post in a thread that I comment on, and not just jump in with a flippant comment. So far with the exception of a couple of people, its been a variation of I want to take money out of your pocket, while the gettings good. The way I see it, is that the various states are not making as much as they normally would with the current price of gas, so they are looking at shortfalls. They also have this nanny state thing going on, that driving is baaaaaaaaad and that the price of gas might spur the development of V8/10/12/16 cars. Thankfully that article was just an opinion, from someone that I am gonna go out on a limb and assume he takes mass transit. Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335.md?page=5)