# Raise the Gas Tax. A Lot. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335 "2015-01-30T16:01:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/141 "2015-02-06T01:50:36Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > HTF funds are used for federal highways. The feds give the money to the states to maintain these roads. That point has never been under contention in this thread. Is that the primary use of these funds, or is there an appreciable flow from the HTF to state and local road work? To be honest, I’ve lost the underlying point of all of this. There are a number of federal programs and I’m not clear what the status of each is. Back in 2007, the biggest pot was the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users (SAFETEA-LU). That may still be the case. Economists like to note that money is fungible, so that if you give a state a grant, it will free up funds for other purposes. To some extent, empirically. At any rate, I’m not sure what the underlying argument is, or how backed it is by observation of actual governmental behavior as opposed to ideological supposition. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/142 "2015-02-06T05:42:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > A) “virtually all major” was his claim. Sorry, you can’t just choose to ignore that qualifier. Right, but most local road projects aren’t major. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/143 "2015-02-06T05:53:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Right, but most local road projects aren’t major. It’s like people don’t understand the difference between federal, state, and local. Sure, there’s federal funding for highways. For Maple Street, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/144 "2015-02-06T06:34:31Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > This sounds like sarcasm, in case it is, you do realize the cost of most municipals tap water is subsidized right? While fresh water is a finite resource it is so cheap many do waste it causing issues when droughts occur. I agree water should cost more, not sure about the $50 dollar rebate though. Well, we can forget the rebate, and just make the one dollar per gallon tax the law. I can see a family of 4, right now, would help raise the revenues by 48,000 per year, just by their water use alone. We could even charge the rich 10 per gallon. And corporations?? 100 per gallon. Think of the revenue that it would generate. Also, we should start taxing street usage. At least 100 cars per day go by my house. Say 5 dollars per road. And, I know that these cars go down other streets in addition to mine. I would imagine that a 15 dollar tax for 3 turns to go down and buy some milk would really generate revenue for our cash poor states.These retirees have it too soft, and it’s unfair that the rest of America should have to pick up the load. We haven’t been taxing them enough. And, you did know that increased taxes means more money directly out of people’s pockets, right? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/145 "2015-02-06T14:01:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes. But a _tax_ on gasoline would not naturally cause AvGas or other aviation fuel prices to climb. You miss the whole point of my post. Once costs are increased for whatever reason they are here forever _even if the original reason becomes moot_. Yeah you can justify $1/gal fed tax now but we’ll still be paying it when gas hit 5 bucks a gallon. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/146 "2015-02-06T14:03:15Z")
The fact that gas is cheap is not the reason a gas tax hike is being proposed. It’s just a good time to implement one. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/147 "2015-02-06T20:46:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > You miss the whole point of my post. Once costs are increased for whatever reason they are here forever _even if the original reason becomes moot_. Yeah you can justify $1/gal fed tax now but we’ll still be paying it when gas hit 5 bucks a gallon. Every time since 1993 when we’ve talked about raising the gas price, it’s always countered by wailing of “but but gas is just too expensive already!” The point you’re missing is that the worn-out excuses of the past 20 years no longer apply. Yes, it will be a permanent tax, bridges don’t start aging more slowly just because the price of gas rises. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/148 "2015-02-08T06:14:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …and it would disproportionately affect lower-income households (though not as badly as other consumption taxes.) I think it would hurt them more. LI households spend a larger sum of their income on gasoline than middle and higher classes. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Rich\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/149 "2015-02-08T23:50:58Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > In a recent column in the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/2015/01/08/5b4b407c-976f-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html), Krauthammer argues that this is the perfect time to raise the gas tax. > > His idea is to take advantage of the lower gas prices right now to raise taxes on gas by $1 and then give the money back to taxpayers in the form of cutting payroll taxes. > > Under this plan someone driving a Prius would save money and someone driving a gas guzzling SUV would pay more. But they still would be paying less at the pump than a couple of years ago. (Until gas prices inevitably rise again.) > > It would be revenue neutral. > > It would give consumers more control over the tax hit. You can’t do anything to avoid a payroll tax except not work. You can avoid gas taxes by buying a fuel efficient car. > > It would benefit the environment. > > It would cut demand for oil, which is good for the US and bad for Iran and others. > > It would benefit the economy. > > What’s not to love? If a person doesn’t drive but uses public transit they are likely to have an advantage. So I guess it depends on what mode of transportation someone uses as to if they would be for or against this if in the end the government got the same amount of money. But remember as the price of something increases the demand decreases, so adding a gas tax may have the result of more people flocking to public transit and avoiding driving more often and therefore not have the desired tax revenue needed to make up for the loss in payroll taxes. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/150 "2015-02-09T00:17:14Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I think it would hurt them more. LI households spend a larger sum of their income on gasoline than middle and higher classes. Why would LI households spend a larger sum of their income on gasoline? $2.30 a gallon is $2.30 a gallon, no matter who is buying it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/151 "2015-02-09T14:35:18Z")
Pretty sure he meant portion or fraction. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/152 "2015-02-12T08:55:09Z")
I think that Krauthammer is usually horribly wrong. That said, I really do think that it a perfectly Keynesian thing to do would be to raise taxes on gas but not because we are suddenly cutting Social Security or anything like that. We have a crumbling infrastructure and a good number of skilled workers who can be put to work repairing our bridges and tunnels and roadways and can take advantage of the cheap gas to put them to work. Paying a bit more for gas might seem like it would hurt but drivers are paying in other ways right now: > [@](#): > > South Carolina’s crumbling roads cost residents about $3 billion annually, according to a national transportation research group report released Thursday. > > Those costs come from extra operation costs, lost time and wasted fuel because of traffic congestion and crashes, according to estimates by Washington, D.C.-based research group TRIP. > > The Palmetto State fared better than the $6.5 billion in total costs North Carolina residents face. But North Carolina has twice the population and drivers than South Carolina. > > [The State](http://www.thestate.com/2015/01/15/3930072/report-sc-roads-cost-residents.html) In just two states (and not densely populated ones that deal with a lot of cold weather and the problems that cold weather has on auto travel), drivers are paying an extra $9.5 billion dollars because our roads are in such lousy shape. Add in a higher gas tax and put these people to work (who will in turn have more money to put into the economy). It only needs to be a short-term fix and can be written in a way that they go away if gas prices reach a certain threshold, or are reduced. And we would all get safer roads which would save us money and put people to work which would help the economy. All of this is win-win so of course it won’t happen. But it should. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/153 "2015-02-12T12:35:36Z")
I assume the $1 increase is kite-flying: it’s too big an increase for anyone in govt to accept, but given the arguments for any increase at all, they might be persuaded to accept a 20c increase each year for five years. And that’s what the proponent really wanted. > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > It would be a mistake to raise gas taxes to anything like UK levels. The US is much larger geographically. Drivers are required to drive further distances. The UK is a tiny little island. The amount of gas needed for your average UK road trip is a lot lot less. Similar gas tax rates in the US and UK would hurt US drivers substantially more. Generally im against taxes that penalise people for “bad behaviour”. However, if ever a larger tax was justified it is for UK drivers. Your average road, car and parking lot does relatively more damage to little ole UK than it does to the US. The UK is one large parking lot. Agreed - I’m in the UK. We pay higher fuel taxes than in the US. However, we drive fewer miles to work, and our food goes fewer miles on the road. It is different. > [@Habeed](#): > > Why aren’t all government fees and taxes indexed to inflation? This is basic math here, something that should kind of being a requirement for competency in. So you’re cooking up a law. Doesn’t matter what it is. You decide that it’s **wrong** to speed, so you decide on a $100 fine. Ok, great. That’s now the law of the land. Speed and pay $100. But then years pass, and inflation makes that $100 now only equivalent to $20 in the currency in effect when the law was written. Now speeding is no big deal. Oops. > > Same thing for gas taxes. “This smoke is polluting our cities and also those gas powered vehicles put wear on our roads. Heavier vehicles cause more wear and also consume more gas, so we can sort of charge people for the road repair by making them pay per gallon”. > > It’s a no shit, no way anyone with a basic brain could screw it up, concept that you need to make **all** government fees, taxes, etc indexed to inflation so that they have the same _consistent_ effect over time. The same obviously goes for outgoing money as well. Decide that doing action “X” is worth a $1000 tax credit? Index that to inflation. That does seem like a good idea - anyone know why it’s not happening apart from wages? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think that since he is “Sir” Ian Mckellan it is safe to assume that as a wealthy British guy he may not realize the situation indeed. IMHO that does not show McKellan as more misguided than what the USA did in general in the past. What I’m trying to say is that we should look at what Mckellan said and wonder if we can do better as many millennials are doing. He is a “Sir” due to his work in acting; he was not born rich. He still lives in the East End and until fairly recently still commuted by tube and DLR (Docklands Light Railway). His misunderstanding is due to UK-US standards rather than rich-poor. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/154 "2015-02-13T02:18:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why would LI households spend a larger sum of their income on gasoline? $2.30 a gallon is $2.30 a gallon, no matter who is buying it. Percentage, then. Fuck me for a slip of the keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/155 "2015-02-13T02:19:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretty sure he meant portion or fraction. Correct. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/156 "2015-02-13T03:48:50Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Percentage, then. Fuck me for a slip of the keyboard. Substituting sum for percentage is not a “slip of the keyboard.” It’s also not a typo, or the new favorite thing to blame, auto-correct. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/157 "2015-02-13T04:44:18Z")
Dude issues a mea culpa, others were clear on what he meant, and you think that jumping on his precise verbiage is a way to score debate points? Roffles. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/158 "2015-02-19T00:41:42Z")
[quote=“D\_Anconia, post:156, topic:711335”] Substituting sum for percentage is not a “slip of the keyboard.” QUOTE] And your source for this is? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/159 "2015-02-19T00:47:09Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Dude issues a mea culpa, others were clear on what he meant, and you think that jumping on his precise verbiage is a way to score debate points? Roffles. Thank you, sir. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335/160 "2015-02-19T02:22:32Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Substituting sum for percentage is not a “slip of the keyboard.” It’s also not a typo, or the new favorite thing to blame, auto-correct. I submit that your post is trivial, petulant and, glaringly, wrong. And that you are being officious and in over your head in trying to take issue with my nomenclature. The term ‘slip of the keyboard’ is an idiom, making a play of words on the phrase ‘slip of the tongue’ [look it up], except, as we note, nobody is speaking, and, with a nod to the medium, the word ‘keyboard’ is substituted for ‘tongue’. Please show me where I am incorrect. Otherwise, kindly leave your pompous posturings elsewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raise-the-gas-tax-a-lot/711335.md?page=9)