# Raising a kitten to be a vegetarian: stupid, cruel, disastrous, or all three? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107 "2009-10-08T21:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/61 "2009-10-09T14:46:45Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Wow. That’s mindblowing to me. I know for sure my parents would have noticed the smell…or me bringing the mice into the house. I was pretty well monitored. Well, I was careful to keep them clean so no one would worry about a vermin problem and go looking around. I imagine a toad would be pretty easy to hide in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/62 "2009-10-09T15:03:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Bless his/her heard’ is often used as an insult in the South. A Southern lady would not want to say anything unkind, lest she be seen as an unkind person. So it’s like code for ‘I agree she’s stupid, but her heart is in the right place – misguided though she is.’ I’m a Southerner, and this is true, though I’d add that some men say it as well, and it’s a dying tradition anyway. But _bless X’s heart_ is at best deliberately condescending, and at worst an insult equal in intent to _Fuck X_. Hey, maybe we can start using that in the Blandness Pit! To the thread topic: she already has the kitten in question. After somebody mentioned taurine above, I googled that and gave her the information. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/63 "2009-10-09T15:31:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > To the thread topic: she already has the kitten in question. After somebody mentioned taurine above, I googled that and gave her the information. It’s not simply about taurine. There are a variety of essential amino acids which cats derive directly from animal tissue: essentials which they _cannot_ convert from plant matter sources the way dogs and humans do. For example, they cannot convert retinol from plant-based carotenoids. They have to have it in active form… they get their veggies by eating the animals that eat veggies. Similarly arginine, niacin, arachidonic acid (dogs convert from plant sources in linoleic/linolenic/arachidonic chain, cats lack enzymes necessary to do this). They also completely lack the digestive enzymes necessary to convert cellulose to fuel, and demand a drastically higher percentage of protein in their diets. You can’t just substitute the basic building blocks of “food” and add in some vitamins, it doesn’t work that way. Intense lab-formulated diets (and I mean, as in powdered, pelleted, chemically-formulated “lab food” fed to research animals for the purposes of extremely strictly controlled nutritional studies) will sometimes sustain an animal in reasonable health for a limited period of time, but again it’s by no means a practice which is in the animal’s best interests for prime health, and these foods aren’t sold to the public, anyway. Sometimes people get away with it and their cats survive, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to try. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/64 "2009-10-09T15:34:32Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > It’s not simply about taurine. I was unclear, being distracted by work. I gave her more information than that. (Actually I gate it second-hand; she doesn’t like me because she knows I hunt.) Unfortunately she, like PETA, has cats & dogs all jumbled up as “carnivores” and thinks that if it’s possible to make a dog go vegan, there’s no reason you can’t do it with a cat. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/65 "2009-10-09T16:00:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I was unclear, being distracted by work. I gave her more information than that. (Actually I gate it second-hand; she doesn’t like me because she knows I hunt.) Unfortunately she, like PETA, has cats & dogs all jumbled up as “carnivores” and thinks that if it’s possible to make a dog go vegan, there’s no reason you can’t do it with a cat. Oh sure, and I didn’t mean to rant at the choir… it just pisses me off mightily to see the sort of spew that PETA promotes, as though corn protein is the same as chicken protein, just so long as the kibble bag has the word “taurine” printed somewhere on it. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/66 "2009-10-09T16:03:45Z")
Seriously, she’s not fit to look after a cat. Less seriously, tell her that **all vegetarians are murdering scum**. Vegetables “scream out” as you cut them, boil them and cook them. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/67 "2009-10-09T16:27:20Z")
This may be taking things a bit far, but … does what the woman in the OP is planning to do count as “animal cruelty” in the U.S.? Because, seriously, she has no more business owning an animal than Michael Vick does. His dogs were taken away from him, and her cat should be taken away from her. This all reminds me of a “Futurama” where some hippie protesters had taught a lion to eat tofu. Camera cuts to a scrawny bag of lion bones. One dusty cough. Poor kitten. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/68 "2009-10-09T16:32:04Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Yes. He is terribly pleased with himself about it, too. He won’t be happy until I’m totally covered in white hairs. We had my boyfriend’s sister staying the night at our place so we washed some blankets and pillowcases for the pull out bed. She looked at the blankets and said, “Do you have one less covered in cat hair?” I just looked at her and said, “Nope.” I did get her another blanket (an orange one that matches one of my kitties so you can’t see all the cat hair like on the blue blanket) but seriously, I had lint brushed it and put it through the washer and dryer. Whatever cat hair was left wasn’t going to be removed without some sort of high powered NASA vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/69 "2009-10-09T16:54:33Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Bless her heart? > > Fuck her heart. With a chainsaw. And feed it to the cat. Problem solved. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/70 "2009-10-09T17:30:16Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > You got whooshed. :smack: But it was a \*good \*whoosh… don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/71 "2009-10-09T17:35:22Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > This may be taking things a bit far, but … does what the woman in the OP is planning to do count as “animal cruelty” in the U.S.? True Doper Confessions: Sometimes I actually sit through those Animal Cops shows on Animal Planet. (I\* know\*, but it’s like a train wreck and I cannot stop myself.) I have seen the SPCA people remove cats from homes of well-intentioned Vegetarian Cat Ladies and subsequently press charges for abuse. [/ single anecdotal data point) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/72 "2009-10-09T18:57:17Z")
Well, it seems that opinion so far is evenly divided over whether it’s a good idea. I have a friend who practices this. An adult cat, an apparent stray, began hanging around their house daily and they began feeding it—vegetables, which it was claimed the cat really seemed to like. After several weeks of the cat never leaving, they unofficially adopted it and it moved with them to a new home. As far as I know, the cat has never eaten anything but vegetables and vegan cat food while it’s been in their care (excepting, of course, whatever it’s managed to kill and eat on its own). It’s on the thin side, but appears healthy and happy. It genuinely seems to go nuts for certain vegetables like Brussels sprouts, but my wonder was tempered somewhat by the notion that I’d probably eat anything voraciously if I were starving, too. I asked my friend about it, mentioning of course that cats are natural carnivores, and his rationale was that processed cat food containing meat was already so far removed from anything they’d be eating in the wild that it didn’t make that much difference to feed them food without animal products. Which is a point, albeit not one that fully convinced me. And yeah, I’m pretty damned sure if you set the cat in front of a plate of Brussels sprouts and a plate of chicken or fish, it’d make short work of the meat plate and leave the shitty green balls for the stupid humans to gnaw on. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/73 "2009-10-09T19:02:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, it seems that opinion so far is evenly divided over whether it’s a good idea. > > I have a friend who practices this. An adult cat, an apparent stray, began hanging around their house daily and they began feeding it—vegetables, which it was claimed the cat really seemed to like. After several weeks of the cat never leaving, they unofficially adopted it and it moved with them to a new home. As far as I know, the cat has never eaten anything but vegetables and vegan cat food while it’s been in their care (excepting, of course, whatever it’s managed to kill and eat on its own). If it is going outside it is killing birds and mice and getting animal protien that way. It should still be fed meat based foods but being able to access protien on it’s own is the reason it hasn’t gone blind yet. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/74 "2009-10-09T19:16:45Z")
Sure, I’ve had cats who loved certain veggies. Canned green beans in one case, tomatoes in another. But they didn’t live off those items, any more than a person can live off of Apple Jacks. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/75 "2009-10-09T19:34:29Z")
Don’t cats self-medicate with grass and catnip? We had cats when I was growing up (I developed an allergy to them, which is why we’re a dog-only family now) and they would eat grass seemingly to make themselves throw up their furballs. That said, it seems to me this woman does not have enough knowledge of cats to have one. A cat eating meat isn’t _evil,_ it’s the way cats are. I don’t see a lot of lions in the savannah lying down to gnaw on a nice piece of fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/76 "2009-10-09T19:37:36Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Don’t cats self-medicate with grass and catnip? > > We had cats when I was growing up (I developed an allergy to them, which is why we’re a dog-only family now) and they would eat grass seemingly to make themselves throw up their furballs. > > That said, it seems to me this woman does not have enough knowledge of cats to have one. A cat eating meat isn’t _evil,_ it’s the way cats are. I don’t see a lot of lions in the savannah lying down to gnaw on a nice piece of fruit. It’s not so much a lack of knowledge as it is the nature of her epistemology. She subordinates facts to ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/77 "2009-10-09T19:40:37Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Which is a point, albeit not one that fully convinced me. And yeah, I’m pretty damned sure if you set the cat in front of a plate of Brussels sprouts and a plate of chicken or fish, it’d make short work of the meat plate and leave the shitty green balls for the stupid humans to gnaw on. Plus hey, animals have taste buds and may get an urge for “junk food” (from the perspective of their diet) too. Ferret books warn owners that ferrets almost universally **adore** raisins, but they can also happily gorge themselves into malnutrition if you just let them eat those sweet raisins rather than their heavily meat-focused kibble. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/78 "2009-10-09T19:58:23Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, it seems that opinion so far is evenly divided over whether it’s a good idea. No. The opinion is _absolutely not_ evenly divided, unless you consider “a certain subset of nutty vegans” and “the rest of the world” as “even”. > [@](#): > > …my wonder was tempered somewhat by the notion that I’d probably eat anything voraciously if I were starving, too. I asked my friend about it, mentioning of course that cats are natural carnivores, and his rationale was that processed cat food containing meat was already so far removed from anything they’d be eating in the wild that it didn’t make that much difference to feed them food without animal products. Ridiculous, for the reasons I mentioned above. Absolutely, _astoundingly_ misguided logic. Corn protein is not meat protein, no matter how many chemically-constructed vitamin supplements are added at the factory. I will agree with him on the point that crappy kibbles are a far cry from a natural, wild-type diet, but that does not change the facts that cats are _obligate fucking carnivores_, and that plant matter physically\* cannot\* provide them with the essential amino acids they need for survival. They cannot even effectively break down plant matter. > [@pbbth](#): > > being able to access protien on it’s own is the reason it hasn’t gone blind yet. This. One of my cats was deeply malnourished when I got him. He would eat anything that fit down his gullet, including veggies, grains, anything. He even one time swiped a forkful of mashed potatoes _on its way to someone’s mouth_. We tried a bunch of super-premium kibble foods, but in the end the only thing that negated this behavior was switching him to a 100% animal-protein, prey model raw diet. Hey presto, he’s no longer interested in plant foods. His dietary needs might be more extreme than the average, but the point remains. A starving animal will eat anything it can to survive. That your friends’ cat eats sprouts only means that it’s _starving_. The shit these people are selling has nothing… _nothing_ whatsoever to do with nutrition, or what’s best for the cat. Most of the glurge is about the atrocities of factory farming and human politics. That alone oughta tell any rational thinker something awfully significant. For fuck’s sake, one of the two major vegan pet food companies offers to practice veterinary medicine on your animals sight-unseen, and claims their food eliminates heartworms and fleas. > [@](#): > > Large Meat, Poultry, Fish and Human Food Companies influence government agency legal policy decisions with campaign contributions to elected officials including Senators and House Legislators. Meat, Poultry and Fish Companies do this to get rid of diseased animals and slaughterhouse waste for profit! Those ingredients go into virtually all Pet Foods including Organic Pet Foods. Evolution guarantees absolutely “No Diseased Animal Ingredients” or “Slaughterhouse By-Product Animal Meals!” Evolution Diet has absolutely no financial connection or affiliation with Animal Protection Institute. The public has been duped. The Meat Industry, Poultry and Fish propaganda machine has convinced the public that clean, safe Corn Gluten Protein Meal and Soy are less desirable and even damaging as opposed to filthy, slaughterhouse waste Chicken Meal, Lamb Meal and Fish Meal. > [@](#): > > The 2009 epidemic of Human-Swine-Poultry Virus (Virus AH1N1), vegetable crop poisonings, fish and wildlife kills come from Factory Animal Farm Waste. Brutal factory cow, poultry, pig, sheep, and fish farms including grass fed and organic animals are forced to live in their own waste. Factory Animal Farms are U.S., Canada and Mexico’s worst water and air polluters. FAFs are the biggest single source of untreated sewage, bacteria, viruses, mold, methane, C02 and other hazards. To save money, FAF animals are forced to live in their own sewage and drink the water they pollute. Many FAF animals get sick and die. The FAF Industry lies to the public about the importance of FAF “Non Grain Pet Foods” so they can profit from diseased animals and by-products put in Non-Grain Pet Foods. The whole thing reads like a Dr. Bronner’s label, except less entertaining and a whole lot more “animal abusive”. Check this crap out (underlining mine): > [@](#): > > Call for us 1st when a Problem Arises for “A No Charge Consultation” [phone #] “Training and Advanced Nutrient Technology myself and others have developed for The Most Difficult Conditions” with limited tests, drugs or instead of drugs and surgery. A veterianarian or physician must do tests if required. I have worked with thousands of Behavior and Sick Dog, Cat, Ferret Problems for Over 20 Years. I have used my prodcedures with some of the Most Serious Conditions. These procedures can not be referred to as cures, diagnosis, treatments or preventions for any disease. The FDA has not reviewed these statements. I am not a physican, veterinarian or nutritionist, but I help People and Pets all over the U.S. everyday at very reasonable costs with exact information on what I do in the same conditions (I do not suggest or recommend). I do not imply or represent that any animal will live longer or healthier on our pet food or added supplements. And this, where they recommend you _add animal protein_: > [@](#): > > Evolution Diet uses only Fresh, Clean Plant Proteins, Special Expensive Added Taurine, Carnitine, Methionine, Lysine Proteins for various Physical Functions and Pure Vegetable Oil. Evolution Diet is Highest in Protein and Oil of all Plant Based Pet Foods and comparable to most High Protein Meat, Poultry and Fish Protein Pet Foods. For Animal Protein, some people add a little Cooked Free Range Egg or Tuna which I find much better then Diseased Animal Tissue in Meat, Poultry, Lamb and Fish Based Pet Foods. :smack: **Vinyl Turnip** , I know your friends’ actions aren’t yours… but you should understand that what they are doing to that cat is slow and painful starvation. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/79 "2009-10-09T20:00:01Z")
Does she at least plan on buying vegetarian cat food? Something that could _possibly_ have the necessary nutrients added to it? She’s not just going to give the poor thing something like a salad or a bowl of turnips is she? ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107/80 "2009-10-09T20:09:20Z")
Also, sorry if I’m starting to sound hysterical and fervent on the topic, but this whole concept of acquiring an animal you know you cannot properly care for, and then willfully subjecting it to inappropriate care and handling on a point so fundamental as the _food it needs to survive_ is **fucked up**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-a-kitten-to-be-a-vegetarian-stupid-cruel-disastrous-or-all-three/513107.md?page=5)