# Raising Pigeons For Food **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 21, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446 "2024-01-21T18:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/1 "2024-01-21T18:22:49Z")
In a book I read a long time ago, a character is a gourmand who loves him some _haute cuisine_. One of the recipes he’s mentioned as enjoying is squabs with _sauce printemps_ (\*Note: I could be wrong on the sauce). Squabs are pigeons. How would a chef go about obtaining some pigeons in, say, 1938 New York? Are they farmed in the same way that chicken and turkey are farmed for the 2024 American diet? Don’t they just … fly off? Would the chef have to hunt them himself (or know a guy who hunts)? I know that New York and other major cities are lousy with pigeons. Are urban pigeons safe to eat, or does their undoubtedly-gross diet (cigarette butts, otherdetritus) make them unsuitable for cuisine? Finally, anybody got a copy of the _Nero Wolfe Cookbook_ handy? I’d like to see a recipe for _sauce printemps_. I tried to look it up but apparently Google thinks I’m searing for spring sauce (_printemps_ being the French word for spring) and gives me Asian recipes and not French ones. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/2 "2024-01-21T18:34:07Z")
I would not want to eat an urban pigeon. Lord knows what they have gotten in to and eaten. There is a reason we call them flying rats. But, certainly, raised well they are suitable to farm. Here is a detailed description from 100 years ago (I think I read pigeon was popular during the depression because they were easy and cheap and fast to raise for consumption). Things may be different today but this gives an idea of it: > **[Pigeon Raising and Squab Production - Small Farmer's Journal](https://smallfarmersjournal.com/pigeon-raising-and-squab-production/)** > > The pigeon industry has two branches; the breeding of squabs for market, and the raising of breeding stock for sale. The first brings the surest and quickest returns, squabs being safely turned into cash at 4 weeks of age. The second requires more... As an aside, homing pigeons seems to want to come back to you to roost so…they don’t really fly away. ---
**Author:** ![teelabrown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teelabrown/32/8412_2.png) [@teelabrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teelabrown)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/3 "2024-01-21T18:46:40Z")
If I could nerve myself to butcher pigeons, breeding them as meat would appeal to me as a hobby and as a food source. Squab is my favorite meat - it tastes a little like foie gras and a little like topnotch chicken thigh. I’d breed them with a good diet so they’d be suitable for the dinner table. But though I can watch chickens and other poultry being butchered on youtube, I don’t think I could do it myself. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/4 "2024-01-21T19:00:17Z")
For what it’s worth, squab is a very young pigeon; less than a month old. They would be difficult to acquire in the wild. Most of the pigeons served in restaurants are wood pigeons which along with other doves are popular game for sports hunters. The ones you see in the streets are generally a variety of rock dove, which I have never seen on a menu. ---
**Author:** ![motu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/motu/32/259_2.png) [@motu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/motu)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/5 "2024-01-21T19:07:21Z")
Humans have been domesticating pigeons and doves since at least Ancient Egypt. > **[Dovecote](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovecote#)** > > A dovecote or dovecot /ˈdʌvkɒt/, doocot (Scots) or columbarium is a structure intended to house pigeons or doves. Dovecotes may be free-standing structures in a variety of shapes, or built into the end of a house or barn. They generally contain pigeonholes for the birds to nest. Pigeons and doves were an important food source historically in the Middle East and Europe and were kept for their eggs and dung. > The oldest dovecotes are thought to have been the fortress-like dovecotes of Upper Egypt a... ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/6 "2024-01-21T19:20:15Z")
You can raise them in a aviary. My father used to raise them, in a 6 x3 meter cage. We eat 2 by week and started with 3 couples increased to 6. He put color rings on their feet to differentiate their birth date.He caught them with a butterfly net. City pigeons are “biset” in Europe, former domesticated that were released/escaped and became independent. They are full of disease, and have generally a hard meat so not comestible. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/7 "2024-01-21T19:49:30Z")
I love a Lil 'Pigeon. I kinda sorta have a pet one. He’s a wild boy. But will come take food from me. Not exactly from my hand. He hangs out with the crows around here. While they’re theiving song bird food. It’s according to how hungry I was. Whether or not I could kill him. I could butcher most critters. I don’t wanna though, don’t make me. They’re very easy to overcook, I hear. Kinda like quail. I put eating city pigeons up on the list of why I’d never eat cat meat. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/8 "2024-01-21T19:58:03Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > They’re very easy to overcook, I hear. Kinda like quail. Heck, chicken is easy to overcook and they are a lot bigger. I have never tried to cook squab but I can imagine the fine line between under and overcooked is very short. They are just a lot smaller than a chicken and are very lean. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/9 "2024-01-21T20:49:23Z")
Before the 17th century in the UK, only barons, abbots and lords of the manor could build dovecotes, which later extended to the parish priest. There was increasing resentment among local populations at this, to say nothing of the demands that large pigeon populations put on local farmers. This displeasure resulted in the loosening of the ownership laws. As owning a dovecote became more accessible, it also became less desirable to the gentry, and the practice declined. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/10 "2024-01-21T20:54:34Z")
A friend is a pigeon hobbyist. He raises, flies, and competes with kits (15 birds IIRC) of Birmingham Rollers (birds that fly in tight formation and then do somersaults and fall a distance before forming back into a group). He has competed nationally and internationally. Rollers that are so inbred that all they do when placed on the ground is repeatedly somersault backwards until they run into something are called parlour rollers. They need to be housed in a small cage to stop their crazy rolling. He also has white homers that he trains and uses for funeral dove releases. He has some oddball birds with feathered feet, fantails that can barely fly and are released to lure in other pigeons, and a few meat breeds. He has a few huge pigeons called giant runts. There are hundreds of pigeon breeds. > **[List of pigeon breeds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pigeon_breeds)** > > This is an alphabetical list of pigeon breeds; these are exclusively breeds of the domestic pigeon (Columba livia domestica). Other Columbidae species (e.g., the Barbary dove, Streptopelia risoria) have been domesticated and developed into breeds, but these are generally simple colour variations of the plumage. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/11 "2024-01-21T21:12:00Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > How would a chef go about obtaining some pigeons in, say, 1938 New York? I assume there were suppliers of specialty products such as this for the restaurant trade. Here is [one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Artagnan_(food_company)) in New Jersey that can supply various meats including squab, mushrooms, truffles, etc. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/12 "2024-01-21T21:59:24Z")
**On Pigeons vs. Doves** At appears that, taxonimcally, pigeons and doves are different genus & species that belong to the same family (Columbidae). Spanish does not seem to recognize the difference, as they use the word “paloma” for both. Spanish also does the same with crows and ravens (“cuervos”) for both. So Jose Cuervo (the tequila brand) means “Joseph Crow” or “Joseph Raven.” ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/13 "2024-01-21T22:39:26Z")
Yeah, whether a species is named “dove” or “pigeon” depends mostly on the whims of the biologist who named that particular species. Informally: If it is getting your girlfriend into a romantic mood, it is a “dove”. If it is defecating on your newly-washed car, it is a “@#$% pigeon”. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/14 "2024-01-21T23:02:21Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > How would a chef go about obtaining some pigeons in, say, 1938 New York? Quite possibly they could buy some from people [raising pigeons on the roofs of their homes.](https://www.mcny.org/story/roof-revered-reviled-city-pigeon) That article has some old photos of men and their rooftop pigeons. > The tradition of urban pigeon keeping is a longstanding one and probably arrived in New York City along with European immigrants. Meanwhile, pigeon racing in the city has been recorded as far back at the 1800s. In the 1940s and 50s, the rooftops of the Lower East Side were dotted with pigeon coops. [See also](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-raise-pigeons-on-rooftops-in-cities): > While it is not advertised, some folks raise the birds, at least partially, for food. Squab (pigeons that have just feathered out but are still unable to fly) make a succulent dish in several kinds of ethnic cooking. In urban areas, some pigeon fanciers will cull their flocks of birds that they are not happy with (genetically) by selling the pre-fledged or just fledged unwanted birds to ethnic restaurants to be used for squab. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/15 "2024-01-21T23:14:32Z")
When I was a kid I raised pigeons, Most of my birds were fancy pigeons and homers but I also raised white kings and giant homers which are bred primarily for food. The food varieties seemed to be about twice the weight of the regular homing pigeons. My Italian uncle was my only customer and he felt the regular homing pigeon squabs tasted better that the large food bred variety. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/16 "2024-01-22T02:05:11Z")
Heck, you can get pigeons in [2024.](https://www.strombergschickens.com/live-birds-eggs/pigeons-doves/) ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/17 "2024-01-22T02:17:25Z")
The French still raise pigeon. Pigeonniers are found throughout the countryside. They have a typical round design, and are a sort of pigeon hotel, with the inside wall lined with little nesting spaces. When you want a meal you simply poke up in the middle and grab yourself a couple. Years ago visiting Egypt I was amazed to see pigeonniers everywhere as well. We found a truly fabulous traditional Egyptian restaurant near where we were staying. They had a couple of pigeon dishes on the menu. They were to die for. Really really good. Basically each was a whole adult pigeon stuffed and baked. As opposed to the feral rats with wings, properly raised pigeon is a worthy thing. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/18 "2024-01-22T02:44:45Z")
I haven’t raised pigeons for food but I hunt and eat wood pigeon (Columba palumbus) on a regular basis. IMO, Pigeon breast properly cooked, with wild mushroom cream sauce on the side, is one of the finest dishes around, and my wife (a semi-vegetarian non-hunter) agrees on this. Would touch a flying rat only to put in the trash. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/19 "2024-01-22T03:33:44Z")
Just wondering; how big is a pigeon breast? I imagine it’s only a couple of ounces. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446/20 "2024-01-22T03:40:24Z")
In meat breeds, dressed, they’re similar to a pheasant. A friend trained dogs to work pheasants. My friend enjoyed hunting but didn’t eat his harvest. Rather, he’d give them to me, ready for the oven. I’d wrap each one in bacon, pour cream of mushroom soup over them straight from the can, then bake then quickly. Two or three per person. Sadly, he passed away a few years back. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-pigeons-for-food/996446.md?page=2)