# Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour? Good or Bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889 "2014-08-19T11:43:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/81 "2014-08-20T00:16:30Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Two, add a tariff to imports that come from countries that don’t have wage parity with North America. We dont have a problem with German or Japanese imports, as we have parity. If it comes from Cambodia, Burma, Viet Nam, or China and the workers don’t have wage parity thats indepently audited, slap them with a tarriff. Tariffs hurt consumers. People like to buy 42" Flat Screen TVs for $500 instead of $2000. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/82 "2014-08-20T00:24:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Tariffs hurt consumers. People like to buy 42" Flat Screen TVs for $500 instead of $2000. People will adjust, the whole point of tarriffs is to preserve consumers. Declan ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/83 "2014-08-20T00:50:12Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I do not agree at all. Once again you are presupposing to decide who is “deserving” based on how you imagine a worker may be spending their money. That should not be a factor in the discussion, lest we slide down the slope of nitpicking purchases. I agree. I’m bothered by the implication that the teenaged laborer should be valued less than any other laborer, by virtue of lowly age. One’s age doesn’t tell you anything about the worth of their labor. If this were the case, younger people would always get paid less than older people for the same jobs. Why should it bother people that their teenaged children might bring home decent paychecks? I would think parents would happy that their kids could save for college or a down payment on a car…or actually move out of the basement before the age of 21. And if more high school grads decide to eschew college and get their start at the Golden Arches instead, why is this such a bad thing? Isn’t this exactly what we want to happen? When my father was in high school, he worked at the local factory in town during the summers. I don’t know for sure, but I doubt he was making the same pitiable wage that my mother made waiting tables. Yet, despite all that good money, he still went to college. But the thing is, he would have still been able to have a decent life and a family even if he had stayed at the factory. There aren’t a lot of jobs left that are like that. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/84 "2014-08-20T00:50:51Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But the thing is, this isn’t just about the minimum wage. _All_ wages are set against the minimum wage. The janitor in my building makes minimum wage. The receptionist makes a little above that. Did you check that? According to [salary.com](http://salary.com), the median Janitor wage is $25k. That’s $12.50. > [@](#): > > The worth of one’s work is ultimately measured against the guy at the very bottom of the totem pole. No it isn’t, at least not any competently run company. Wages are determined by productivity and value added to the company. An executive isn’t paid more because he has a degree and a suit; he’s paid more because his skills are rarer and he adds more value. Especially in industries where individual contributions can be easily quantified – e.g. sales, civil law, entertainment, – top employees commonly out earn their bosses. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/85 "2014-08-20T01:02:30Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Did you check that? According to [salary.com](http://salary.com), the median Janitor wage is $25k. That’s $12.50. The median. Do you know what a median is? (Hint: it’s not the minimum.) And do you not understand that the minimum wage is different in San Francisco, CA ($10.70) than it is in Bumfuck, Mississippi ($7.25)? > [@](#): > > No it isn’t, at least not any competently run company. Wages are determined by productivity and value added to the company. This is laughable, at least when it comes to the salaries of government employees. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/86 "2014-08-20T01:37:57Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Two, add a tariff to imports that come from countries that don’t have wage parity with North America. We dont have a problem with German or Japanese imports, as we have parity. If it comes from Cambodia, Burma, Viet Nam, or China and the workers don’t have wage parity thats indepently audited, slap them with a tarriff. > > No reason to support China’s economy anymore, they have had close to ten years, if they have’nt been able to establish a domestic market with their population, screw em. I agree. Magnavox used to make TVs here in Arkansas. What the hell happened? Chinese slave labor. See Mitt Romney and the Chinese prison camp for workers. We are fiddling while Rome burns. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/87 "2014-08-20T01:45:52Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > People will adjust, the whole point of tarriffs is to preserve consumers. > > Declan Let them eat cake. That didn’t go over so well the last time… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/88 "2014-08-20T02:00:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let them eat cake. That didn’t go over so well the last time… Hey, poor people are just trying to get ahead. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/89 "2014-08-20T02:31:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let them eat cake. That didn’t go over so well the last time… Surely you know that quote shouldn’t be remotely attached to the ability to buy a cheaper flatscreen. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/90 "2014-08-20T04:32:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Hey, poor people are just trying to get ahead. Hiss. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/91 "2014-08-20T04:42:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A point that occurs to me: Automation ought to be driving minimum wage up. A lot of jobs that would once have been done for minimum wage are not any more, not because they pay more now, but because they’re now done by machines instead of by humans at any price. And these jobs are, by and large, the jobs that require the least skill. So the least-skilled-human-job now requires more skill than the least-skilled-human-job of the past. Is it not reasonable, then, that the wage paid for that job should be higher? That would be like at WalMart when they have all those self-checkout lanes logic should be that that persons wage should be double or triple what a cashier would make. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/92 "2014-08-20T04:43:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I agree. > Magnavox used to make TVs here in Arkansas. What the hell happened? Chinese slave labor. > See Mitt Romney and the Chinese prison camp for workers. > We are fiddling while Rome burns. 🙂 Democrats are no better. Clinton took alot of money from Chinese sources. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/93 "2014-08-20T07:44:20Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Hiss. I’m not proud of that. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/94 "2014-08-20T11:06:17Z")
An increased minimum wage leads to increased costs. Increased costs lead to increased prices. Increased prices lead to minimum wage employees still struggling to pay for the same goods and services as they had before. Assume burger flipper wages increase to $15. The price of burgers then goes up. This price increase means your minimum wage janitor then has to pay more the next time he walks into a burger joint. Most of his newly increased wages are then taken up by inflation. We also have to assume that the minimum wage increase of a burger flipper will increase the wage of a burger flipper manager. Differentials have to be maintained. Fixed income individuals are then screwed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/95 "2014-08-20T11:09:42Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > An increased minimum wage leads to increased costs. Increased costs lead to increased prices. Increased prices lead to minimum wage employees still struggling to pay for the same goods and services as they had before. Assume burger flipper wages increase to $15. The price of burgers then goes up. This price increase means your minimum wage janitor then has to pay more the next time he walks into a burger joint. Most of his newly increased wages are then taken up by inflation. We also have to assume that the minimum wage increase of a burger flipper will increase the wage of a burger flipper manager. Differentials have to be maintained. Fixed income individuals are then screwed. None of this happened in any of the last several increases in the minimum wage. And it shouldn’t go up to $15 immediately – an increase should be gradual, with periodic halts to evaluate for any adverse economic effects. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/96 "2014-08-20T11:29:33Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > An increased minimum wage leads to increased costs. Increased costs lead to increased prices. Increased prices lead to minimum wage employees still struggling to pay for the same goods and services as they had before. … Most of his newly increased wages are then taken up by inflation. We also have to assume that the minimum wage increase of a burger flipper will increase the wage of a burger flipper manager. Differentials have to be maintained. Not all costs are labor. And not all labor costs will go up; do you think lawyers will automatically raise their rates 10% after a 10% minimum wage hike? Believe it or don’t, there are scientists who do … wait for it … science.(\*) A very crude estimate is that a 10% hike in minimum wage will cause a 1% hike in overall inflation. Thus a nominal 10% is still a real 9% hike. Shabby? Many economists estimate the effect as even much less. And it would be less in the U.S.A., since many states already have minimum wages well above the federally-mandated floor. (\* - “A Survey of the Effects of Minimum Wages on Prices,” by Sara Lemos, Journal of Economic Surveys 22(1): 187–212, 2008.) Your 5-minute edit wondow has expired, **Fuzzy\_wuzzy** , but you may still revise and extend your remarks if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/97 "2014-08-20T11:44:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think it’s the best way – it’s just a way. I think it would help people and make our economy stronger to raise the minimum wage by a small amount. Its a way, but its a shotgun, not a sniper rifle. ETA: And yeah, a small amount - $15 practically doubles it. It creates a “living wage” - but again - its a shotgun, not a targeted solution. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/98 "2014-08-20T11:50:53Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Its a way, but its a shotgun, not a sniper rifle. > > ETA: And yeah, a small amount - $15 practically doubles it. It creates a “living wage” - but again - its a shotgun, not a targeted solution. I’ve advocated a very gradual increase of the minimum wage – perhaps $1 per year – with periodic halts to evaluate for any adverse effect, stopping at some desired final wage like $12 or (possibly) even $15, assuming no adverse effects along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/99 "2014-08-20T12:02:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour is good for business because people have more money to spend, then raising it to $50 per hour is better and $100 is better still. > > Regards, > Shodan Hi, late to the thread, still feel the need to congratulate Shodan for showing us just how rational the right-wing position can sometimes be. Way to go. 🙂 > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > An increased minimum wage leads to increased costs. Increased costs lead to increased prices. Increased prices lead to minimum wage employees still struggling to pay for the same goods and services as they had before. Assume burger flipper wages increase to $15. The price of burgers then goes up. This price increase means your minimum wage janitor then has to pay more the next time he walks into a burger joint. Most of his newly increased wages are then taken up by inflation. We also have to assume that the minimum wage increase of a burger flipper will increase the wage of a burger flipper manager. Differentials have to be maintained. Fixed income individuals are then screwed. None of this is necessarily true. You’d think you’d see an increase in prices, but at the same time an increase in demand could lead to economies of scale being more profitable and thus no such inflationary effect. Just to name one example of a possible effect not included in your… I hesitate to call it “model”. This is the problem with making your economics all about theory. Let’s see some data! I can’t find anything that asserts that minimum wage hikes are inflationary. Plenty that shows that it hurts jobs, but nothing inflationary. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889/100 "2014-08-20T12:05:10Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > An increased minimum wage leads to increased costs. Increased costs lead to increased prices. Increased prices lead to minimum wage employees still struggling to pay for the same goods and services as they had before. Assume burger flipper wages increase to $15. The price of burgers then goes up. This price increase means your minimum wage janitor then has to pay more the next time he walks into a burger joint. Most of his newly increased wages are then taken up by inflation. We also have to assume that the minimum wage increase of a burger flipper will increase the wage of a burger flipper manager. Differentials have to be maintained. Fixed income individuals are then screwed. But do we need cheap burger flippers? They have fast food in Europe that pays their minimum wage. A big difference is they dont have free drink refills in European McDonalds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raising-the-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour-good-or-bad/695889.md?page=6)