# Ralph Nader decries PCness **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681 "2016-06-06T22:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/41 "2016-06-07T02:37:49Z")
That totally makes deeper and richer sense. By all means let’s continue this feast of wit and reason. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/42 "2016-06-07T03:21:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > When I was working in the co-op, we posted an opening in the collective. (You’d be amazed at how many people were eager to work for the money we could pay ourselves…) She walked in (confidence and assertiveness embodied) and announced herself as having just got back from Africa for the Women’s Conference. Not the _fake_ one, the one with the _real_ women. She paused to give me a moment to express my approving awe, but I blinked. > > I started on the agreed spiel…as written by the same committee that wrote the Mission Statement, and subsequent amendments… but she waved it away, cut me short with “You will hire me, I’m politically correct.” > > This happened. If I’m lying, I’m dying. And if I thought she was kidding me, doing an improv sendup, I most likely would have asked her to marry me. On bended knee, you may be sure. How about giving us _The REST of the Story_, Unca Paul? Did she get the job? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/43 "2016-06-07T03:45:31Z")
What a load of self-serving bullshit. edit: Adahar, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/44 "2016-06-07T04:05:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So, what if Trump picked Ralph Nader as his VP? That would be lovely, when they both lose they can blame PCness. Their failure is in no way their offensive opinions, it is the corrupt attitude of the vocal minority to quick to offense. I sincerely hope they and their ilk keep fucking that chicken. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/45 "2016-06-07T04:13:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > How about giving us _The REST of the Story_, Unca Paul? > > Did she get the job? She gave me her phone…she gave _us_ her phone number…messages were left for an interview, and that was all that happened. Look, warts and all, I loved those people, most are still on my list. Turns out, collective work suits my ideals, but not my temperament. Plus, got a baby. PCs were just coming on, I knew some software, and the temps offered me twice what I was making. For knowing _Wordstar_! Laugh? I thought I’d surely die! Eventually I drifted in consulting, which offered me the larcenous latitude inherent with working for the Man. If I were a better person, wouldn’t have like it so much. Oh, well. Now finish your jammies and go put on your vegetables. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/46 "2016-06-07T04:14:42Z")
Can’t we all just hate each other like in the good old days? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/47 "2016-06-07T04:59:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Differing views of what constitutes good manners I guess. But here’s the thing about politeness: definitions should not change by the hour. That’s one of the main critiques I’ve seen of the PC movement, is that correct terms become prohibited terms too quickly for anyone not on a college campus to follow. I do not agree with this claim, because of two reasons: the things you need to remember are always at least a decade old, and people will tell you when you fuck up. The problem is that anti-PC crowd freaks the fuck out anytime you point the shit out. Rather than apologizing and saying they’ll do better, they come up with excuses for why it isn’t a problem, and then try to make you out to be the actual racist/sexist/whatever. They fail to understand that there is a difference between pointing out that something you said is bigoted and calling your a bigot. I for one go out of my way to make the distinction, but it never seems to matter. One time I even went to the trouble to say something like “You don’t seem to be transphobic, but I could have sworn you used the word ‘tranny’. That is considered a slur in trans circles, so please don’t use it.” And I still got a huge rant about how I was stupid and how it’s short for transvestite and how shortened words can’t be offensive. (Nevermind that that’s exactly what “nigger” is.) And then how completely unfair it was that I asked them to change how they speak and started bringing up censorship. The only places I’ve had some luck is in places where people are willing to be PC but just didn’t know a specific issue. Like certain slurs when used against the mentally ill. And, even then, I have to avoid the “bigot” word. That’s actually being PC, not a renaming of “being nice.” Being PC is when you actually think something shitty about someone, but you carefully word what you say to avoid offending them or people who know them. Not that I object to such–just that there’s the only place where I understand the frustration. But that’s not the same thing as the PC that the right seems to have a problem with. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/48 "2016-06-07T05:01:00Z")
And here’s something that’s also not PC: adaher may be saying some shit that I disagree with, but his OP is not a bad one. We really should be building on our commonalities. That goes to both sides, though. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/49 "2016-06-07T05:13:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I do not agree with this claim, because of two reasons: the things you need to remember are always at least a decade old, and people will tell you when you fuck up. > > The problem is that anti-PC crowd freaks the fuck out anytime you point the shit out. Rather than apologizing and saying they’ll do better, they come up with excuses for why it isn’t a problem, and then try to make you out to be the actual racist/sexist/whatever. > > They fail to understand that there is a difference between pointing out that something you said is bigoted and calling your a bigot. I for one go out of my way to make the distinction, but it never seems to matter. > > One time I even went to the trouble to say something like “You don’t seem to be transphobic, but I could have sworn you used the word ‘tranny’. That is considered a slur in trans circles, so please don’t use it.” And I still got a huge rant about how I was stupid and how it’s short for transvestite and how shortened words can’t be offensive. (Nevermind that that’s exactly what “nigger” is.) And then how completely unfair it was that I asked them to change how they speak and started bringing up censorship. > > The only places I’ve had some luck is in places where people are willing to be PC but just didn’t know a specific issue. Like certain slurs when used against the mentally ill. And, even then, I have to avoid the “bigot” word. > > That’s actually being PC, not a renaming of “being nice.” Being PC is when you actually think something shitty about someone, but you carefully word what you say to avoid offending them or people who know them. > > Not that I object to such–just that there’s the only place where I understand the frustration. But that’s not the same thing as the PC that the right seems to have a problem with. Where I get annoyed is when the correct label is devoid of truth. For example, I’m not supposed to say “illegal immigrants” which itself is a PC term that replaced, “illegal aliens”. Now I’m supposed to say “undocumented immigrants”. But that term is fraudulent. Most immigrants here illegally have documents because they overstayed their visas, and others have fake documents. Same goes for the disabled. “Disabled” is the proper legal term, but some have taken to using terms like “handicapable” or “differently abled”. Well then what’s the problem? If you’re just as capable with one leg as I am with two then we’re just peachy and you should be just as productive as me. But if you’re actually “disabled” then I should make accomodations for you. And why is “handicapped” bad now? Further, why don’t old organizations with now offensive names have to changed them, such as the NAACP or the UNCF? And why did those terms become offensive in the first place? Will “black” become offensive soon? Isn’t it already in some quarters? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/50 "2016-06-07T05:31:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We should But people also shouldn’t take offense when no offense is intended. Statements that are well-meaning but cringeworthy should be either accepted in the spirit they are given or seen as an opportunity to educate. I agree. It’s a shame that so few other people do. Try going to like, say, Christianforums, and explaining why you used the term “cisgendered”. [It doesn’t work](http://www.christianforums.com/threads/in-this-thread-replacements-for-cisgender.7942128/). Doesn’t matter how well you mean, people still scream about “PC this” and “Oppression of language that”. A lot of it really does boil down to niceness, and particularly the fact that some people don’t _want_ to extend basic niceness to others. Is it any wonder that many people, _particularly_ those in the affected class and their allies, don’t really > [@adaher](#): > > Differing views of what constitutes good manners I guess. But here’s the thing about politeness: definitions should not change by the hour. That’s one of the main critiques I’ve seen of the PC movement, is that correct terms become prohibited terms too quickly for anyone not on a college campus to follow. Really? Care to offer some examples? > [@Stringbean](#): > > I’m a charming young white male of high intellect and searing wit, with a face chiseled of James Dean’s ashes. > > HAVE AT IT INTERNET WARRIOR Well, you’re a disgustingly bad _liar_, I’ll say that much. But here’s one: > [@Stringbean](#): > > Because I have two low-hanging acorns that don’t shrivel into a little scrunchie when someone makes a joke about a group I am a part of. Yeah, no shit, you’re playing on easy mode. You’ve _never_ had to deal with persecution of any kind, so _of course_ it’s not hard for you to shrug that shit off. You’ve literally never been challenged by it. There’s no white equivalent to “nigger”, no cisgendered equivalent to “tranny”, no straight equivalent to “faggot”, and no male equivalent to “bitch”. These things don’t exist because even if someone did invent a word with such a meaning, there’s no way to instill it with the kind of cultural _power_ that the above terms have. Because white cishet men have all the power. And they’ve had all the power pretty much all the time. The jokes about white people are all about not being able to dance, not being “cool”, or having too much money and power - trivial shit, for the most part. The jokes about black people are continuations of violent and nasty stereotypes propped up for hundreds of years that continue to this day to negatively effect them in non-trivial ways. The jokes about transgendered individuals are typically based on a premise of transgendered individuals being dishonest perverts - particularly tragic given both the current debate over their basic right to use the restroom and the amount of violence visited upon them on a regular basis. That is, actually harassment, assault, and _murder_ just because they’re transgendered. So yeah. You’re a weakling with absolutely no idea how out of your depth you’d be if you weren’t born with every advantage possible. You’re boxing welterweight high schoolers and wondering why everyone else thinks Muhammad Ali is so great. If you actually had to step in the ring with _real_ discrimination, hatred, or prejudice, your “low-hanging acorns” would retract so fast he wouldn’t even be able to knock them around. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/51 "2016-06-07T05:33:38Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Fuck Ralph Nader in the balls with a blunt object. Yes, the balls, because it’s not an orifice and it’s more painful that way. Ah, but would that be a sex crime? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/52 "2016-06-07T11:33:58Z")
How do I keep doing this? > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I agree. It’s a shame that so few other people do. Try going to like, say, Christianforums, and explaining why you used the term “cisgendered”. [It doesn’t work](http://www.christianforums.com/threads/in-this-thread-replacements-for-cisgender.7942128/). Doesn’t matter how well you mean, people still scream about “PC this” and “Oppression of language that”. A lot of it really does boil down to niceness, and particularly the fact that some people don’t _want_ to extend basic niceness to others. Is it any wonder that many people, _particularly_ those in the affected class and their allies, don’t really […] Is it any wonder that many people, particularly those in the affected class and their allies, stop giving people the benefit of the doubt? It is, fundamentally, not the job of any given minority to teach their humanity to other people. It can be incredibly tiring for the fifth time that day to remind someone that the correct pronoun is “she” (particularly when it’s the same person multiple times). And of course, not everyone is honest and means well. Many people do it on purpose, just to be dicks. Is it any wonder you start to get reactions [like this](http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/02/i-am-not-your-teachable-moment/)? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/53 "2016-06-07T12:11:35Z")
This thread is a train wreck. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/54 "2016-06-07T12:57:39Z")
Wasn’t Nader’s argument the basic premise of _All in the Family_? And wasn’t that 40 fucking years ago? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/55 "2016-06-07T13:00:39Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > This thread is a train wreck. It’s a differently-trajectoried mass conveyance. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/56 "2016-06-07T14:28:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, but it’s about 99.99999999% on the left. 97.4% of political correctness is simply not being a douchebag. So yeah, I would agree that less than 1% or right-wingers are capable of that. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/57 "2016-06-07T15:15:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yeah, no shit, you’re playing on easy mode. You’ve _never_ had to deal with persecution of any kind, so _of course_ it’s not hard for you to shrug that shit off. You’ve literally never been challenged by it. There’s no white equivalent to “nigger”, no cisgendered equivalent to “tranny”, no straight equivalent to “faggot”, and no male equivalent to “bitch”. These things don’t exist because even if someone did invent a word with such a meaning, there’s no way to instill it with the kind of cultural _power_ that the above terms have. Because white cishet men have all the power. And they’ve had all the power pretty much all the time. > > The jokes about white people are all about not being able to dance, not being “cool”, or having too much money and power - trivial shit, for the most part. The jokes about black people are continuations of violent and nasty stereotypes propped up for hundreds of years that continue to this day to negatively effect them in non-trivial ways. The jokes about transgendered individuals are typically based on a premise of transgendered individuals being dishonest perverts - particularly tragic given both the current debate over their basic right to use the restroom and the amount of violence visited upon them on a regular basis. That is, actually harassment, assault, and _murder_ just because they’re transgendered. > > So yeah. You’re a weakling with absolutely no idea how out of your depth you’d be if you weren’t born with every advantage possible. You’re boxing welterweight high schoolers and wondering why everyone else thinks Muhammad Ali is so great. If you actually had to step in the ring with _real_ discrimination, hatred, or prejudice, your “low-hanging acorns” would retract so fast he wouldn’t even be able to knock them around. Speaking as another young white male of high intellect and searing wit, well said. One thing that the 99.9999% made-up statistic certainly does apply to: the percentage of people whining about “PC culture” being white men. Gee I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/58 "2016-06-07T15:25:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Since when is politeness something that old people can’t understand? I thought the big complaint was supposed to be that we youngsters weren’t polite enough any more. Politeness means respecting your elders and not making a fuss when they complain that a colored family just moved in across the street. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/59 "2016-06-07T15:51:24Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yeah, no shit, you’re playing on easy mode. You’ve _never_ had to deal with persecution of any kind, so _of course_ it’s not hard for you to shrug that shit off. You’ve literally never been challenged by it. There’s no white equivalent to “nigger”, no cisgendered equivalent to “tranny”, no straight equivalent to “faggot”, and no male equivalent to “bitch”. Or any of the following: [ul] [li]Cunt[/li][li]Whore[/li][li]Slut[/li][li]Bimbo[/li][li]Pussy[/li][/ul] (And I’m sure that list could go on for quite some distance.) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/60 "2016-06-07T16:03:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@Starving Artist](#): > > > > Still 99.99999999% on the left. > > That level of precision would require that you sort out every molecule in Known Space. I strongly urge **SA** to get started right away, and report back the moment the job is done. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What a load of self-serving bullshit. > > edit: Adahar, I mean. Our Questioner-in-Chief is just indulging in one of his favorite fetishes: rooting out instances of would-be liberals criticizing other liberals. “See, even YOU agree that you suck! _Hurrh durrh_!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681.md?page=4)