# Ralph Nader decries PCness **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681 "2016-06-06T22:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/81 "2016-06-07T23:38:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Exactly. The discrimination is the problem, not the verbal expression of it. But the words are a reminder of that discrimination even if at that moment the only thing happening are the words. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/82 "2016-06-07T23:39:50Z")
For many people words can trigger many kinds of trauma. We never know how an insults affects others. Which insults should be forbidden? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/83 "2016-06-07T23:54:25Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > But the words are a reminder of that discrimination even if at that moment the only thing happening are the words. Did they forget? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/84 "2016-06-07T23:56:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Did they forget? Are you taking lessons from **D’Anconia**? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/85 "2016-06-08T00:08:04Z")
No, just agreeing with one part of Nader’s criticism, where he said kids these days get burned by moonbeams. Standup comedians can’t even do college campuses anymore in many cases or they have to severely edit their act. Used to be that college campuses were their lifeblood. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/86 "2016-06-08T00:12:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, just agreeing with one part of Nader’s criticism, where he said kids these days get burned by moonbeams. Standup comedians can’t even do college campuses anymore in many cases or they have to severely edit their act. Used to be that college campuses were their lifeblood. No, you were directly answering my statement. You gave no indication you were suddenly running back to Nader. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/87 "2016-06-08T00:16:19Z")
I don’t think racial slurs can do real damage unless the person being damaged is weak, and you’d think that people that grew up with such obstacles would be tougher. Actually, I KNOW they are tougher. It’s the well off who are breakable that way. The well off who don’t really know what real discrimination is and are emotionally shattered when they encounter it for the first time. You know what Michelle Obama said when she was asked what kind of racism she’d encountered in life? The first thing that came to mind was being mistaken for an employee. Which isn’t even a race thing! I’ve been mistaken for an employee too! Who hasn’t? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/88 "2016-06-08T00:25:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think racial slurs can do real damage unless the person being damaged is weak, and you’d think that people that grew up with such obstacles would be tougher. Actually, I KNOW they are tougher. It’s the well off who are breakable that way. The well off who don’t really know what real discrimination is and are emotionally shattered when they encounter it for the first time. You know what Michelle Obama said when she was asked what kind of racism she’d encountered in life? The first thing that came to mind was being mistaken for an employee. Which isn’t even a race thing! I’ve been mistaken for an employee too! Who hasn’t? It was a[part of a longer interview](http://www.people.com/article/barack-obama-michelle-obama-ferguson-racism-racial-profiling-interview) where she was sharing times that she and Obama were mistaken for employees/domestic help/valets. Maybe the woman in Target said something that made it clear she thought she was dealing with an employee rather than just asking a tall person for help. How can someone think a Target employee would have security detail surrounding them? > [@](#): > > “There’s no black male my age, who’s a professional, who hasn’t come out of a restaurant and is waiting for their car and somebody didn’t hand them their car keys,” said the president, adding that, yes, it had happened to him. > > Mrs. Obama recalled another incident: “He was wearing a tuxedo at a black-tie dinner, and somebody asked him to get coffee.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/89 "2016-06-08T00:39:48Z")
If that’s the worst he can think of, then it proves the point that racism is primarily a problem for poor minorities. For upper middle class and wealthy minorities, it’s at most an irritant. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/90 "2016-06-08T00:47:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If that’s the worst he can think of, then it proves the point that racism is primarily a problem for poor minorities. For upper middle class and wealthy minorities, it’s at most an irritant. So when you see a black man wearing a tux, you think he’s there to park your car? And you don’t see that as a problem? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/91 "2016-06-08T00:51:09Z")
That’s a symptom of generalization, not racism. That problem is solved by African-Americans being lifted out of poverty. Or by replacing all African-American service workers with immigrants, which will pretty much put a stop to people assuming that the black dude is an employee. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/92 "2016-06-08T01:26:23Z")
I really hate it when other people make fun of the way I dance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/93 "2016-06-08T01:32:21Z")
Actually, getting picked last for pickup basketball games is kinda humiliating. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/94 "2016-06-08T02:38:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If that’s the worst he can think of, then it proves the point that racism is primarily a problem for poor minorities. For upper middle class and wealthy minorities, it’s at most an irritant. Until they get pulled over by the cops. Or apply for their first job. My understanding is that middle class blacks routinely deal with all manner of slights. They also do a fair amount of navigation, like avoiding the NJ Turnpike or planning cross-country trips carefully and not taking detours. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/95 "2016-06-08T03:49:40Z")
Slights are universal. Being slighted more does not damage your life or prospects in any significant way. Job discrimination and law enforcement discrimination are much bigger problems, although even there the disadvantages dissipate as income increases. From the moment Barack Obama graduated Harvard, his job prospects were superior to any white man who graduated from Florida State, although inferior to most of his white male classmates and probably roughly equal to most of his white female classmates. Being a minority can certainly be a problem, but how big of one depends on what else life has thrown at you. Will Smith’s kids have much better prospects in life than Joe the Plumber’s. But then that seems to be the main point of contention between guys like Sanders and Nader and Black Lives Matter. Sanders and Nader see the divide as primarily income-based, whereas BLM sees race as the primary divide. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/96 "2016-06-08T05:15:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sure, if a person’s life is defined by their group membership. We can draw conclusions about groups based on group characteristics, but we cannot predict individual behaviors or experiences based on group characteristics. Some minorities have led charmed lives, some white males have never gotten a fair shake. And yet, unless those white males have literally never left 8 Mile or Harlem, it’s very likely that most of that “never getting a fair shake” has nothing to do with their race. > [@adaher](#): > > They aren’t. Being bulletproof when someone calls you names is a hallmark of successful people in general. Slurs like “mick”, “guinea” and “kike” used to have power. Now they barely nick the intended victim. I don’t know the other two and have literally never heard them used, but “kike” basically shifted from “nigger” to “cracker”. You know why? Because _antisemitism became incredibly uncool_. Jews are no longer a minority that is commonly discriminated against. They aren’t significantly disadvantaged, they have a lot of positive representation in popular culture and history, and while antisemitism does still exist, it’s marginal to the point where in the USA, it’s often barely noticeable. If I’m wrong, feel free to correct me on that, but that would be the big difference between “kike” and “nigger”. Oh by the way, Adaher? > [@Stringbean](#): > > I respect this for it contains considerable truth. Called it. > [@](#): > > I still think words only hurt the weak. Of course you do, you special little snowflake. I’m sure the above mentioned considerable truth has nothing to do with that. Check your privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/97 "2016-06-08T05:37:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But then that seems to be the main point of contention between guys like Sanders and Nader and Black Lives Matter. Sanders and Nader see the divide as primarily income-based, whereas BLM sees race as the primary divide. And of course it’s both. But the income divide is driven by the race divide. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/98 "2016-06-08T20:23:27Z")
Yeah, but they believe that if you fix the income divide, the race divide fixes itself. Which isn’t really true, although it does get you at least halfway there. Personally, I think it’s easier for African-Americans to improve their economic status than it is to get governments to do the right thing, which is why African-American income and educational attainment has increased over the years but police brutality is still what it is. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/99 "2016-06-09T23:44:03Z")
Its a good thing I don’t care what Ralph Nader thinks or else I would really have been offended! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681/100 "2016-06-10T00:36:45Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Its a good thing I don’t care what Ralph Nader thinks or else I would really have been offended! Yeah. He did some useful consumer work but lost all validity in 2000. Dementia sucks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ralph-nader-decries-pcness/756681.md?page=6)