# Ramadan? Big Hypocrisy? Muslims Please Chime in **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917 "2010-08-11T06:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/21 "2010-08-11T18:09:16Z")
> [@Gus\_Handsome](#): > > So, if they are sleeping through the day, then where exactly is the sacrifice? There really isn’t a fast is there? Do you not _break fast_ when you arise? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/22 "2010-08-11T21:04:23Z")
> [@Gus\_Handsome](#): > > This seems to be rather hypocritical, and all 'all knowing" God would be aware of the slipperiness of the schedule change. Well, yeah. Haven’t you ever seen the way church ladies cut their eyes at one another and go “mmm-_HMMM_” when watching or discussing someone from the congregation who’s ostentatiously following the letter of the law while almost as ostentatiously ignoring the spirit of it? You get folks like this in every single religion ever formed, and nobody thinks this sort of thing counts in your favor with Og, except maybe for the people who do it. True believers, be they Muslim, Hindu, Jew, or any flavor of Christian, just roll their eyes, shake their heads, make little mmm-mmm-mmm noises, and move on. But then, not everybody who follows certain customs that have religious origins worries about being in Og’s favor. They just do these things because it’s easier and/or more pleasant not to make waves by openly flouting the customs, or because the customs fit in with what they want to do anyway. I don’t see anything hypocritical in that, myself. And no, the majority of people don’t completely reverse their schedules one month a year to get around the traditional fast. That would be completely unfeasible when you have things like, say, a job where you work during the day, or kids to send to school. During your visits, there are presumably offices and stores open, buses and taxis running, and someone preparing these buffets, right? How could that be happening if everyone is staying up all night and sleeping all day? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/23 "2010-08-11T21:53:34Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think when people talk about Islam, they expect everything to be up to fundamentalist standards, which is pretty silly. Islam has plenty of casual and cultural adherents, who don’t take stuff word-for-word but enjoy the culture of it. This is true of any major religion. There are Christmas-and-Easter Christians. There are cultural Jews who don’t practice Judaism. I’m sure there are equivalents in Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and any other major world religion you can think of. There are hypocrites in pretty much any category of people, because hypocrisy is a common human trait. No religion or philosophy has managed to get humans to stop being hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/24 "2010-08-11T22:14:56Z")
It’s only hypocritical if they are criticizing other people for doing it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/25 "2010-08-14T15:22:10Z")
I went to high school with a bunch of Muslims and most of them kept the fast as you’d expect, though there were a few who were pretty much only doing it because their family was doing it and they’d sneak in some snacks and cigarettes during the day. Since we were in high school there wasn’t any possibility of just sleeping through the day. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/26 "2010-08-14T20:11:33Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > Ever been to New Orleans for Mardis Gras? I’m pretty sure that’s not the official way to prapre for Lent 😃 Since Lent is the fasting part, you want to get all the boozing and partying and screwing done BEFORE you have to fast and stuff. Lent is the preparation for Easter. So it IS how you get prepare for Lent – get in as much fun as you can before you have to go through all the boring rituals and no meat on Fridays and feeling guilty and being told that you’ll make the Virgin Mary cry. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/27 "2010-08-15T00:09:44Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Unfortunately, I don’t know of any practicing Muslims currently active on the SDMB. \*\* Angua \*\*posted yesterday in the ‘_Great Viewing in Tonight’s Sk_y’ thread ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/28 "2010-08-15T13:27:59Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > [Shabbat elevator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator) wow!..just wow! In the UK we aren’t a particularly observant bunch so I’ve never seen anything like that before. I take the hypocrisy of most religious adherents as granted…but that? seriously? Which omnipotent being is _that_ supposed to fool? Thanks again to the straight dope, my ignorance has been fought but I’ve also been made a little sadder at such a waste of human ingenuity. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/29 "2010-08-15T13:48:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I take the hypocrisy of most religious adherents as granted…but that? seriously? Which omnipotent being is _that_ supposed to fool? It’s not intended to fool anyone or any deity. Judaism is a legalistic religion, and it is part of the history and tradition to examine the laws carefully to better understand them and G-d’s intent. It may seem odd to you, but in the Jewish tradition it’s what we do. As you can see from the article, use of Shabbat elevators isn’t universally accepted. There’s a saying, ask 2 Jews and you’ll get 3 opinions. It’s part of what, IMO, makes Judaism a vibrant religion, even if I don’t follow observantly. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/30 "2010-08-15T15:02:59Z")
OK Telemark. It isn’t my intention to derail any further it just seems a particularly weird piece of reasoning. Either an elevator can be used or not. Having said that, without the need to interpret holy writings there would be no possibility of a power structure and let’s face it, the Jewish faith is not alone in that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/31 "2010-08-15T15:11:21Z")
re: Shabbat elevators Can devout Jews ride a bus on the Sabbath if they only exit at regular bus stops? Seems like the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/32 "2010-08-15T15:43:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > re: Shabbat elevators > > Can devout Jews ride a bus on the Sabbath if they only exit at regular bus stops? Seems like the same thing. Not if they’re orthodox, they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/33 "2010-08-22T08:48:22Z")
Ok, you want a example of Ramadan hypocrisy: My first job in a help desk at a major hospital, we were told that during Ramadan no one would be allowed to eat in the room where we answered phones because one of our co-workers was Muslim and fasting during Ramadan. This was a huge imposition because if you were the one at the desk, you could not leave without relief, if all those on duty were out roaming around fixing things, well you just had to stay there until someone came back. No cell phones so you could not just call them up and say get back here for a moment I need a biobreak, you had to wait for them to get back. They had cut staffing to the bone and were making all of us left work extra long shifts. It was SOP to eat between calls while on phone duty. So fine, whatever, I could live with the inconvenience, right up until the point I came back from a series of calls and he was finishing up a sandwich and fries, and takes my coming back as his queue for leaving, sticking me with desk duty and no lunch. I fasted more than he did during that month. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/34 "2010-08-22T09:45:08Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > [@CaveMike](#): > > > > [Shabbat elevator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator) > > wow!..just wow! > In the UK we aren’t a particularly observant bunch so I’ve never seen anything like that before. > > I take the hypocrisy of most religious adherents as granted…but that? seriously? Which omnipotent being is _that_ supposed to fool? > > Thanks again to the straight dope, my ignorance has been fought but I’ve also been made a little sadder at such a waste of human ingenuity. I’m no great fan of religion but that seems a little unfair. When the sabbath observance laws were first laid down it’s doubtful that there were buildings with more than 3 floors - if that. Are you allowed to walk up stairs on the sabbath? Because that seems a lot more work than using a lift. Do you think 80 y/o’s should be confined to their accommodation all day? The problems seems more that the people who are responsible for the religious laws take an slightly bizarre approach to the letter and spirit of the law, making absurd restrictions based on the letter whilst allowing enormous transgressions of the spirit. But, then, who said religion had anything to do with sense. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/35 "2010-08-22T14:20:07Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Ok, you want a example of Ramadan hypocrisy: My first job in a help desk at a major hospital, we were told that during Ramadan no one would be allowed to eat in the room where we answered phones because one of our co-workers was Muslim and fasting during Ramadan. This was a huge imposition because if you were the one at the desk, you could not leave without relief, if all those on duty were out roaming around fixing things, well you just had to stay there until someone came back. No cell phones so you could not just call them up and say get back here for a moment I need a biobreak, you had to wait for them to get back. They had cut staffing to the bone and were making all of us left work extra long shifts. It was SOP to eat between calls while on phone duty. > > So fine, whatever, I could live with the inconvenience, right up until the point I came back from a series of calls and he was finishing up a sandwich and fries, and takes my coming back as his queue for leaving, sticking me with desk duty and no lunch. I fasted more than he did during that month. This reminds me of the guy in med school who couldn’t do call on the Sabbath. He kept getting spotted at nightclubs downtown instead. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Global](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Gray\_Global](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Global)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/36 "2014-07-21T09:27:05Z")
Well, I agree with the initiator of this thread. It seems to me completely ridiculous that during Ramadhan, the majority of those observing it spend much more money and gain weight on overeating expensive foods (lamb, desserts, etc.). Is this how we relate to the poor? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/37 "2014-07-21T11:55:04Z")
> [@Gray\_Global](#): > > Well, I agree with the initiator of this thread. It seems to me completely ridiculous that during Ramadhan, the majority of those observing it spend much more money and gain weight on overeating expensive foods (lamb, desserts, etc.). > > Is this how we relate to the poor? Where do you get the idea that a majority engage in that behavior? The OP refers to a specific enclave of people in a single location. It might be a majority of those people, but it is not a majority of the billion or so Muslims in the world. Hypocrisy, (religious or not), is a pretty common human experience, but so is being judgmental on inadequate (or incorrect) information. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/38 "2014-07-21T12:20:24Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > It’s a bit like Puffins and Beavers and other animals are considered fish by the catholic church so they can be ate on fast days. Bending the rules is what humans are good at. > > [http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/how-the-puffin-the-turtle-and-the-guinea-pig-turned-into-a-fish-268321.html](http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/how-the-puffin-the-turtle-and-the-guinea-pig-turned-into-a-fish-268321.html) _Meh_ First off, the original (middle eastern) rules applied to what we would now identify as endothermic creatures. Cold blooded animals were never regarded as part of the rule of abstinence. Thus turtles and lizards have always been excluded from the Catholic rules of abstinence. Then, as the church expanded into new areas, (and no Linnaean taxonomy was attached to the rules), people, largely uneducated, took different ideas of what the rules meant. Thus, a number of diving (underwater swimming) birds and mammals were identified with fish. In some occasions, (the capybara), there was outright fraud among the people of the diaspora, in others, there was simple confusion. Beyond that, many of the local decisions regarding what was “fish” were overturned by more competent authorities, (_e.g._, the barnacle goose). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/39 "2014-07-21T12:38:55Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Which omnipotent being is _that_ supposed to fool? The Omnipotent tend to come off as Mr Knowitalls. It must feel good to ride in that elevator knowing you just pulled one over on someone like that. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917/40 "2014-07-21T13:00:54Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > This reminds me of the guy in med school who couldn’t do call on the Sabbath. He kept getting spotted at nightclubs downtown instead. Reminds me of all the religious accommodations in prison for people who wouldn’t be there in the first place if they’d obeyed the basic thou-shalt-not-kill/steal/etc rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramadan-big-hypocrisy-muslims-please-chime-in/549917.md?page=3)