# Ramen restaurants in Japan, what is the deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628 "2015-01-12T15:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/21 "2015-01-12T16:47:32Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > If you went somewhere and ordered pasta primavera, would you notice if someone served you instant Raman? > > Cost is relatively inexpensive. Maybe 12-15 bucks for a bowl, but it depends. Eh burger places even sit down places vary enormously for example in quality, and it doesn’t always map to cost. Some obviously use shitty pre-made patties, or wilted veggies, crappy buns etc. Or to use this example a lot of places sell instant coffee, they aren’t shy about it either. So I was asking how consistent in quality are the ramen places. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/22 "2015-01-12T16:53:54Z")
> [@grude](#): > > How consistently good are they? I mean how much of a guarantee do you have they extrude their own noodles fresh and make their own broth, versus someone running in the back and sneakily making some instant ramen. To be fair to dried ramen, there’s the ramen everyone in the US is familiar with, and then there’s _good_ stuff. If you ever see it, try some Sapporo Ichiban, Nongshim “Shin Ramyun,” or basically anything that’s not Nissin Top Ramen or Maruchan. The less English on the package the better (generally; sometimes you get a real stinker but I’ve been rewarded with good noodles much more often than I’ve made a terrible mistake). ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/23 "2015-01-12T16:54:28Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Eh burger places even sit down places vary enormously for example in quality, and it doesn’t always map to cost. Some obviously use shitty pre-made patties, or wilted veggies, crappy buns etc. > > Or to use this example a lot of places sell instant coffee, they aren’t shy about it either. So I was asking how consistent in quality are the ramen places. I’ve only been to 3 or 4 U.S. ramen places, and they were all quite good. They may not all make the noodles in house, but they all serve high quality noodles. The broth and other ingredients are really what differentiate the dishes from place to place. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/24 "2015-01-12T17:10:56Z")
Noodle shops appear in Japanese cinema…[Udon](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780167/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1) and [Tampopo](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092048/?ref_=tt_rec_tt) come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/25 "2015-01-12T17:12:43Z")
Aren’t we kind of looking at ramen in Japan much the same way that say… someone in Russia might look at hamburgers in the US? In other words, the vast, vast majority of the US experience with ramen is the 10/$1 stuff at the grocery, just like I’d expect the vast majority of Russians’ hamburger experience is limited to McDonalds. They’d probably be a little taken aback by a higher-end burger place. While not fine dining, it’s definitely not a fast food burger either, and I suspect that the Japanese ramen places are much the same. At least, that’s how [the place near my office](http://www.ramenhakata.com/)looks… haven’t been in yet though. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/26 "2015-01-12T17:39:43Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Go on Netflix (or amazon Prime), find a show called _Mind of a Chef_, and watch the first episode. You will learn everything you ever needed to know about ramen in Japan. > [@flodnak](#): > > Nah. Watch _Tampopo_. Just because it’s awesome. There’s no reason not to do both. I’ve never seen\*\* Udon\*\*. Maybe I should add it to my list. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/27 "2015-01-12T17:43:08Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Well if Americans could come to embrace sushi, they could embrace ramen. I’d advise not calling it ramen per se, and using big pictures to show it isn’t just noodles and broth but basically a full serving of meat and veggies in the bowl too. Sure, it could be done - but there was never ultra-cheap kid-chow sushi. Different approach was needed. Ramen has been a cheap-cheap junk food here for decades. It would be a long uphill slog to level ground before you could build the notion of “quality” food. Your marketing efforts and costs would be the greatest portion of the endeavor. (Outside of opening by-Japanese for-Japanese shops in areas of Japanese concentration - but it would have limited appeal outside of those who already know what “good” ramen is.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/28 "2015-01-12T17:44:11Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Well then I’m kind of annoyed that ramen places serving real broth etc haven’t expanded outside Japan. You live in the wrong place. We have quite a few very good ones in Silicon Valley. Alternatively: 1. Notice there are no ramen places where you live 2. Open up a ramen place 3. Profit! ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/29 "2015-01-12T17:51:45Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Well then I’m kind of annoyed that ramen places serving real broth etc haven’t expanded outside Japan. They have. I can point to no less than 4 in greater Boston. 😛 Anyway, over here, they vary widely in quality, and often even the bad ones have long lines, because the stuff is fast becoming VERY trendy. In Japan, well, I had a trip to Tokyo and ate at no less than 5 ramen shops, and they ranged from “Good” to “AMAAAAAAAZING.” (As opposed to the Ramen I’ve had over here, which ranges from “Eh.” to “Very, very good.” There is absolutely no comparison between what you might make at home and something like [this](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VnV7l6J1Ioc/U3Vv_stsLNI/AAAAAAAAECA/fYqH7vctY6M/w1107-h626-no/IMAG0259.jpg) (that wasn’t even the best ramen I had on the trip, it’s just the most handsome) or [this.](https://grumblingstomachs.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/yume-wo-katare-eat-alone-together-2.jpg). **Amateur Barbarian** - I think you are incorrect. Though I think your THINKING is exactly why there aren’t so many ramen shops (as compared to say, Pho shops). But in every major metro area where I’ve been to REAL ramen shops, there was a queue. Sometimes more than an hour. To get in. For Ramen. The demand is astronomical. Even the “bad” ramen place around here has a line at anything closer to dinnertime. As far as I can tell, the only reason it hasn’t taken off is because people are thinking “People associate ramen with instant noodles” and don’t seem to realize that that is in fact nearly irrelevant. All you need to do is get someone to eat it once, and you not only have a convert, but you have massive word of mouth. The demand is there. People just need to open these places. That said - making real Ramen is a TON OF WORK. I’d compare it to operating a bakery. Long, hot hours. Not for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/30 "2015-01-12T18:18:32Z")
Momofuku (NYC) ramen spawned an empire for David Chang. Ramen shops are all over the place and very successful. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/31 "2015-01-12T18:19:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You live in the wrong place. We have quite a few very good ones in Silicon Valley. **John Mace** - have you tried the new [Ramen Taka](http://www.yelp.com/biz/ramen-taka-santa-clara) in Santa Clara near the university? I rate it as 90% as good as Orenchi, without the mobs. I’m going back this week. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/32 "2015-01-12T18:21:14Z")
How authentic is the pile everything in the bowl style? I see a lot of pics from US places basically have a full meal of meat and veggies on top of the noodles with little broth, but from video of a place in Japan I can remember it seemed to be just noodles and a lot of broth. Is this a foreign invention? ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/33 "2015-01-12T18:26:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > How authentic is the pile everything in the bowl style? I see a lot of pics from US places basically have a full meal of meat and veggies on top of the noodles with little broth, but from video of a place in Japan I can remember it seemed to be just noodles and a lot of broth. > > Is this a foreign invention? Nope. First off, you’re not really correct that there is “little broth” in most of the American ramen dishes. At the end of the day, there’s a LOT of space under all that stuff that is then filled with broth. Second, ramen in Japan often looks like [this](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wQ8LPZxBF2g/U3VwuicE7XI/AAAAAAAAEKk/KTMzS4EUAAs/w1118-h632-no/IMAG0370.jpg) or [this](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uGziRqNbQRk/U3VwKihqkWI/AAAAAAAAEDY/BVS7Qn8CnNw/w1118-h632-no/IMAG0285.jpg). Maybe there is a slight exaggeration here in the land of 2500 calorie meals, but it’s certainly not any great leap from what you see in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/34 "2015-01-12T18:37:28Z")
DC has a few, from trendy places with long lines to quiet joints in the burbs. There are fewer than a million Japanese Americans, most of which live in Hawaii or on the West Coast. The sushi market has largely been cornered by Korean entrepreneurs, who may be less likely to want to branch out into other Japanese cuisines. In other words, I don’t think the number of sushi restaurants really maps to demand for other Japanese foods. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/35 "2015-01-12T18:42:13Z")
And good ramen restaurants may also be billing themselves as sushi restaurant, offering sushi for the masses while serving kore specialized dishes to those in the know. This is common with Chinese restaurants- what looks like an ordinary American Chinese restaurant may also sell regional specialities, sometimes off a separate menu. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/36 "2015-01-12T18:46:52Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > **Amateur Barbarian** - I think you are incorrect. Though I think your THINKING is exactly why there aren’t so many ramen shops (as compared to say, Pho shops). But in every major metro area where I’ve been to REAL ramen shops, there was a queue. Sometimes more than an hour. To get in. For Ramen. I am thinking in fairly big, broad terms - a national or nationally-known chain, for example. Any specialty restaurant can be just rare enough and in demand enough to be busy… but I think taking “good” ramen to a wider market, outside of metro areas with a built-in clientele (in this case, Japanese and Japanese-influenced and then the smaller number who have “discovered” ramen) would be the huge uphill battle I describe. It’s not like pho, which was largely unknown; it’s as if the market were saturated with crappy frozen pizza before anyone attempted to serve ‘good’ pies. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/37 "2015-01-12T18:48:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And good ramen restaurants may also be billing themselves as sushi restaurant, offering sushi for the masses while serving kore specialized dishes to those in the know. This is common with Chinese restaurants- what looks like an ordinary American Chinese restaurant may also sell regional specialities, sometimes off a separate menu. This is totally true for a lot of Asian cuisines, but I can’t say I’ve ever seen it happen with ramen. This isn’t like, a “cuisine” where most of the components are shared and you still use a wok or whatever and you just change around your spices and ingredients or something. This is a “we need to devote a whole bunch of space to big simmering pots that are only used for the ramen” undertaking. Everywhere I’ve ever seen that had ramen “on the menu” amidst a bunch of other stuff basically made terrible ramen. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/38 "2015-01-12T18:57:13Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I am thinking in fairly big, broad terms - a national or nationally-known chain, for example. Any specialty restaurant can be just rare enough and in demand enough to be busy… but I think taking “good” ramen to a wider market, outside of metro areas with a built-in clientele (in this case, Japanese and Japanese-influenced and then the smaller number who have “discovered” ramen) would be the huge uphill battle I describe. > > It’s not like pho, which was largely unknown; it’s as if the market were saturated with crappy frozen pizza before anyone attempted to serve ‘good’ pies. Maybe I’m just snobby, but I don’t honestly feel like a nationally known chain could produce good ramen in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/39 "2015-01-12T19:15:53Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > To be fair to dried ramen, there’s the ramen everyone in the US is familiar with, and then there’s _good_ stuff. If you ever see it, try some Sapporo Ichiban, Nongshim “Shin Ramyun,” or basically anything that’s not Nissin Top Ramen or Maruchan. The less English on the package the better (generally; sometimes you get a real stinker but I’ve been rewarded with good noodles much more often than I’ve made a terrible mistake). Yeah, but still, instant ramen - even the good stuff - is very, very different than “real” ramen. The broth alone is a huge difference. And yeah, I’ve had the premium Japanese brands of ramen, and I agree, they’re way better than the 10-for-$1 supermarket American brands. But I wouldn’t want anyone to get the impression that they’re in any way nearly as good as a good ramen-stand ramen. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628/40 "2015-01-12T19:38:56Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Yeah, but still, instant ramen - even the good stuff - is very, very different than “real” ramen. The broth alone is a huge difference. And yeah, I’ve had the premium Japanese brands of ramen, and I agree, they’re way better than the 10-for-$1 supermarket American brands. But I wouldn’t want anyone to get the impression that they’re in any way nearly as good as a good ramen-stand ramen. This is absolutely correct. Once again, the pasta analogy holds. No matter how good the “pasta in a pouch” or whatever is compared to Chef Boyardee, it’s still nothing like getting an actual pasta meal prepared by an actual Italian cook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramen-restaurants-in-japan-what-is-the-deal/709628.md?page=3)