# Ramones haters - Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328 "2013-08-15T17:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/1 "2013-08-15T17:28:07Z")
> **[Ernest Hemingway](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=699373)** > > I have never read anything by Ernest Hemingway, and want to know what the big deal is. What should I read first? See this thread on Hemingway; it got hijacked (with me playing an unfortunate role; sorry) by a reference to the Ramones. One poster slags The Ramones as shit; another has fun with their lyrics. We get it - The Ramones were primitive. But is there really much hate out there for them? I guess I’d be surprised if there was, but thought I would bring it over here to quit polluting the other thread. So - The Ramones? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/2 "2013-08-15T17:35:48Z")
I liken them to Hemingway. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/3 "2013-08-15T17:39:25Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I liken them to Hemingway. ::sputters like Yosemite Sam:: Now, STOP that! 😉 Seriously - you don’t like them? Too stoopid? ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/4 "2013-08-15T17:59:36Z")
I love(d) the Ramones. I think they were really under-appreciated while they were together and still now. I always thought they got gypped when the grunge scene hit big and everyone started getting into the harder music sung by grubby singers with bad haircuts and holes in their jeans. The Ramones had been doing that for almost 20 years by then! ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/5 "2013-08-15T18:06:41Z")
The Ramones music wasnt hard nor grungy. They were a good power pop band. Like many things New York they were more about style than substance though. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/6 "2013-08-15T18:10:07Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I liken them to Hemingway. I didn’t read the other thread, but that shit cracked me up! Sorry man, I never got them (Ramones). I can’t say they were bad, `cause I never gave them much of a critical ear. I guess you could say that I don’t know what I’m talking about (and you’re probably right), but nothing they did ever grabbed and enticed me to listen to more of them. I wouldn’t say hate… more like a blender full of indifference. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/7 "2013-08-15T18:12:22Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > ?.. more like a blender full of indifference. Yep, you and the bulk of America when their albums came out. I just don’t think they occupy that mere-cult place anymore that they did at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/8 "2013-08-15T18:16:56Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Like many things New York they were more about style than substance though. I always assumed the Ramones were a 20-year deliberate joke about style over substance. Which is why I loved them. That and their catchy little songs. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/9 "2013-08-15T18:18:35Z")
The Ramones were great. I saw them twice and they put on a great show each time. I consider them an iconic American band. **End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones** is a good documentary about the Ramones. > **[End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_the_Century:_The_Story_of_the_Ramones)** > > End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones is a 2003 documentary film about highly influential New York punk rock band the Ramones. The film, produced and directed by Jim Fields and Michael Gramaglia, documents the band's history from their formation in the early 1970s and 22 subsequent years of touring, to their 1996 breakup and the deaths of two of the four original members. The title is taken from the Ramones' 1980 album, End of the Century. Johnny Ramone died shortly after its release. > The... > **[End of the Century (2003) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368711/?mode=desktop)** > > End of the Century: Directed by Jim Fields, Michael Gramaglia. With Rick Rubin, Tommy Ramone, Dee Dee Ramone, Johnny Ramone. The story of the punk rock band The Ramones. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/10 "2013-08-15T18:19:16Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yep, you and the bulk of America when their albums came out. I just don’t think they occupy that mere-cult place anymore that they did at the time. Yeah, I don’t think there is any way to deny the rather significant impact they’ve had on music since their heyday. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/11 "2013-08-15T18:19:44Z")
> [@Ernest Hemingway](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ernest-hemingway/666159/40): > > Dude, The Ramones get played at NFL games. “Punk” as a genre has devolved from a vast array of musics, looks and styles to basically “what the Ramones did.” If you are focused just on the critics, you aren’t looking around. Im sorry but The Ramones were never a punk band IMO even though some categorized them as such. Punk has a specific social/political context that The Ramones never manifested. Examples of punk bands would be The Dead Kennedys or Agent Orange. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/12 "2013-08-15T18:23:34Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > I always assumed the Ramones were a 20-year deliberate joke about style over substance. Which is why I loved them. That and their catchy little songs. You just might be right there. 🙂 I also like their catchy little songs. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/13 "2013-08-15T18:24:44Z")
Just as the Ramones are synonymous with punk, hated of the Ramones is synonymous with hating punk. The Ramones were a wonderful breath of fresh air to those of us who had to endure years of disco. Gaaaa, going to clubs in the early 70’s, my college years, was a horrible experience unless you were willing to do the disco look and the dancing and the hair products. Thank Joey it’s over. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/14 "2013-08-15T18:30:09Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im sorry but The Ramones were never a punk band IMO even though some categorized them as such. Punk has a specific social/political context that The Ramones never manifested. Examples of punk bands would be The Dead Kennedys or Agent Orange. Hmm, yes there seems to be only one type of [punk rock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock_subgenres) and the Ramones never really excelled at singing angry songs about Reganomics (“My Brain is Hanging Upside down” notwithstanding) so they mustn’t be punk. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/15 "2013-08-15T18:32:18Z")
Dee Dee could have been a sad, tragic character from a Hemingway novel. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/16 "2013-08-15T18:35:59Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > ::sputters like Yosemite Sam:: > > Now, STOP that! 😉 > > Seriously - you don’t like them? Too stoopid? I love the Ramones. I like Hemingway a lot. I don’t understand why you shut down the whole comparison in the other thread. I don’t understand why you started this thread with the presumption that there’s a lot of Ramones hatred. If it weren’t for the Ramones, pop music would still sound like fucking ELO or something. And if it weren’t for Hemingway, writing would have that Edwardian pseudo-intellectual voice like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/17 "2013-08-15T18:36:02Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im sorry but The Ramones were never a punk band IMO even though some categorized them as such. Punk has a specific social/political context that The Ramones never manifested. Examples of punk bands would be The Dead Kennedys or Agent Orange. Ah; here we go. This is not a discussion about “Who/What is Punk?”; the OP in this thread is: given that to the "main, crossover population of today, “Punk” is pretty much synonomous to “The Ramones”\* - their look, their musical formula. With that as context, how do YOU feel about The Ramones and their music? At this point, given their cultural influence, I assumed most folks accepted and even liked the Ramones. Open to hearing otherwise. fwiw, I happen to think “What is Punk?” is one of the stupidest questions in music. Nothing good tends to come from it; just whiny chest-thumping. \*For the Political Punks, see “The Clash”; for The Snotty Punks, see “The Sex Pistols.” Most folks don’t look much past that, for better or worse. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/18 "2013-08-15T18:37:38Z")
It would require an idiosyncratic definition of punk to exclude The Ramones from the genre. My taste in music has always tended more toward the melodic and polished (I’m more of a Beatles guy than a Stones guy), so The Ramones were never a band I listened to a lot. What I heard of them made sense to me; I think I got what they were aiming at and why, and I think they hit their target, musically. I have read articles that described them as “primitives”, and I think that’s accurate, but they were deliberate primitives. I thought they were great at what they did, and extremely influential. I really enjoyed the way Dee Dee counted off songs at a different tempo than what they actually started the song with. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/19 "2013-08-15T18:54:16Z")
In small doses, the Ramones were a lot of fun, which is more than I can say for most of the bands broadly classified as “punk.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/20 "2013-08-15T18:59:02Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > One poster slags The Ramones as shit; another has fun with their lyrics. :mad: Beat on the brats. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328.md?page=2)