# Ramones haters - Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328 "2013-08-15T17:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/41 "2013-08-16T05:38:45Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Not in the slightest. Punk came from anger with the establishment and revolutionary thinking. If it was only that, it would have probably sounded like Phil Ochs. Ugh, a million times Ugh!. I am glad it wasn’t. The only thing worse than political Punk Rock that takes itself seriously is mainstream Christian Rock. The only person that I can think of that did it well is Jello, and even then, he didn’t write the lyrics to most of my favorite Dead Kennedys songs. The Ramones have the _firmest_ claim to being the first Punk band, IMHO. Even then, it’s totally beside the point, and fairly meaningless argument to boot. We might as well argue how many of them could dance on the head of a pin. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/42 "2013-08-16T06:44:35Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Ah; here we go. > > This is not a discussion about “Who/What is Punk?”; the OP in this thread is: given that to the "main, crossover population of today, “Punk” is pretty much synonomous to “The Ramones”\* - their look, their musical formula. With that as context, how do YOU feel about The Ramones and their music? At this point, given their cultural influence, I assumed most folks accepted and even liked the Ramones. Open to hearing otherwise. > > fwiw, I happen to think “What is Punk?” is one of the stupidest questions in music. Nothing good tends to come from it; just whiny chest-thumping. > > \*For the Political Punks, see “The Clash”; for The Snotty Punks, see “The Sex Pistols.” Most folks don’t look much past that, for better or worse. Well I was ready to join a fun discussion but this post shut it down for me. I disagree with your premise and if I’m not allowed to explain why I don’t like them under this narrow context, then I guess I’d prefer not to engage other than to directly answer your above questions: I don’t like The Ramones. I feel their look was contrived and marketed and, as I don’t care much for pop, I don’t like their music. . ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/43 "2013-08-16T07:53:21Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > Well I was ready to join a fun discussion but this post shut it down for me. I disagree with your premise and if I’m not allowed to explain why I don’t like them under this narrow context, then I guess I’d prefer not to engage other than to directly answer your above questions: I don’t like The Ramones. I feel their look was contrived and marketed and, as I don’t care much for pop, I don’t like their music. > > . Sorry. Seriously. So - you disagree that the Ramones are synonymous with Punk in the mainstream? If so, how come? Beyond that, sounds like you don’t like them. That’s cool; your call. Or are you saying you like debating the What is Punk question? If so, then, yeah, my post dumped on that. Hey, start a different thread; sounds like other folks may want to join in…I just find that question maddening… ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/44 "2013-08-16T08:03:31Z")
Jeebus, we’re hijacking a thread about “Do you like the Ramones” with “What is Punk”. They came up with their own sound and look. What could be more punk? Aww, hell, let’s take this [elsewhere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16576894#post16576894), and leave this thread to fighting about whether you like The Ramones. Because they empirically rock, Punk or not. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/45 "2013-08-16T11:38:57Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Just as the Ramones are synonymous with punk, hated of the Ramones is synonymous with hating punk. Rubbish. I _love_ punk, and I don’t have any time for the Ramones (hatred is a bit strong for the indifference I feel) - they just happen to do absolutely nothing for me. Most early US punk is the same way - Television, NYDolls, all that CBGB noise. I feel nothing for them. I do love pre-punk stuff like VU, The Stooges and MC5, though. But mostly, from the actual '74-'80 era, I like British punk. Pistols, Damned, Clash, Banshees… ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/46 "2013-08-16T11:45:20Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > Which is why I loved them. That and their catchy little songs. That’ll be it. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/47 "2013-08-16T11:45:51Z")
The Ramones were a light hearted, fun, cartoon band with powerful, simple poppie music - not punk - but a refreshing style at the time. Here were a bit of a self parody, not too serious with seriously good music. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/48 "2013-08-16T15:21:55Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Hi **Wordman** , I think we’ve previously discussed how the Ramones were like a musical version of Mad Magazine. (Which you thought was a definite virtue, and I think is kinda candyass.) > > But my real problem with the Ramones is I don’t care about the hooks on most of their songs. There’s a handful I love, (Sheena, RR Highschool, Sedated, maybe Blitzkrieg) but for the most part, I listen and shrug. Yeah, all good one man’s stoopid is another’s hilarity. Writing the perfect pop melody is really hard; the Ramones succeeded at it more than most. And to spark a whole 'nother kerfuffle - please, take it to the What is Punk? Thread - Green Day, punk or not, write great tight melodic pop songs using the language of punk. Really hard to do with consistency. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/49 "2013-08-16T15:24:13Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > If you don’t like The Ramones, you’re rock’s version of a little girl, you don’t like the rough stuff - even when it’s good. We can get you a wine spritzer, if you like. 😃 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/50 "2013-08-16T15:42:12Z")
Have always been a fan. Even saw them at Hammerjacks in Baltimore. I think it was 1990. I think the real genius lies in their compositions. They’re so simple and minimalistic, yet _ **so** _ good. Ever try to write a \*good \*song using only three chords? It’s much harder than you think. And… we can thank Dee Dee for it. IMO, he wrote the best songs, and the best lyrics. He was truly gifted. Too bad he was a junkie. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/51 "2013-08-16T15:46:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im sorry but The Ramones were never a punk band IMO even though some categorized them as such. Punk has a specific social/political context that The Ramones never manifested. Examples of punk bands would be The Dead Kennedys or Agent Orange. > [@madsircool](#): > > Touche. 🙂 > > Not in the slightest. Punk came from anger with the establishment and revolutionary thinking. The Ramones were a power pop band who were basically pousers. I love the Ramones…not as much as some here. But I love them for what they were. Nothing says punk like following all the rules of punk non-conformity. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/52 "2013-08-16T15:54:44Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > I think we’ve previously discussed how the Ramones were like a musical version of Mad Magazine. Good description. I also think “cartoonish” is applicable. They successfully portrayed themselves as street thugs/losers/pinheads, but I often wonder if it was all a ruse. In real life, were they _ **really** _ that way? Or did they adopt the pinhead image for marketing purposes? > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > But my real problem with the Ramones is I don’t care about the hooks on most of their songs. There’s a handful I love, (Sheena, RR Highschool, Sedated, maybe Blitzkrieg) but for the most part, I listen and shrug. Their first five albums were good. They went downhill after that. IMO they should have broke up after _Pleasant Dreams_. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/53 "2013-08-16T16:25:14Z")
The [Ramones’ RnR Hall of Fame Induction Speech](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klJkJ2etDAE) by Eddie Vedder is interesting and perhaps relevant to this discussion… ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/54 "2013-08-16T16:38:45Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Nothing says punk like following all the rules of punk non-conformity. QfT. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/55 "2013-08-16T19:59:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Good description. I also think “cartoonish” is applicable. > > They successfully portrayed themselves as street thugs/losers/pinheads, but I often wonder if it was all a ruse. In real life, were they _ **really** _ that way? Or did they adopt the pinhead image for marketing purposes? Well, real people are often cartoonish. The Ramones for the most part, were who they pretended to be. There’s a very good documentary on them out there, when I saw it was struck by how much they really were the cartoon they presented themselves as. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/56 "2013-08-16T20:40:13Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, real people are often cartoonish. The Ramones for the most part, were who they pretended to be. There’s a very good documentary on them out there, when I saw it was struck by how much they really were the cartoon they presented themselves as. I think you’re probably referring to this documentary that I mentioned earlier. I thought it was well done and gave a lot of insight into the members of the band. Joey and Johnny’s relationship was very interesting. > [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > **End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones** is a good documentary about the Ramones. > [End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_the_Century:_The_Story_of_the_Ramones) > [End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones (2003) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368711/?mode=desktop) ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/57 "2013-08-16T20:56:47Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I loved them. They were fast, loud, funny, melodic and _fun_. They clearly loved all the same pop and bubblegum songs I loved. This. They were like a blast of fresh air after years of turgid disco music and pretentious art rock. I was never a huge fan of their music, but a couple of Ramones songs always made great additions to mix tapes. Though not a huge fan, I had such great appreciation for what they were doing that I wrote and recorded a homage to them called Joey’s Not Here, which you can hear here, ya hear? [http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page\_songInfo.cfm?bandID=6816&songID=3444266](http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=6816&songID=3444266) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/58 "2013-08-16T21:26:15Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Sorry. Seriously. > > So - you disagree that the Ramones are synonymous with Punk in the mainstream? If so, how come? > > Beyond that, sounds like you don’t like them. That’s cool; your call. > > Or are you saying you like debating the What is Punk question? If so, then, yeah, my post dumped on that. Hey, start a different thread; sounds like other folks may want to join in…I just find that question maddening… No, I’m not interested in defining Punk. Defining any music will always lead to squabbles. However, I disagreed with this from your earlier post: _"given that to the "main, crossover population of today, “Punk” is pretty much synonomous to “The Ramones”_ - their look, their musical formula."\* Not defining Punk is not the same as saying I think The Ramones are ‘synonomous’ with it. To my ear they are not punk, in sound or attitude. That said however, I don’t hate them. I just don’t think enough of them to take them seriously. ---
**Author:** ![cherry\_pez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@cherry\_pez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry_pez)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/59 "2013-08-17T19:18:09Z")
They’re no Bad Brains. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328/60 "2013-08-17T19:51:26Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > No, I’m not interested in defining Punk. Defining any music will always lead to squabbles. > However, I disagreed with this from your earlier post: > _"given that to the "main, crossover population of today, “Punk” is pretty much synonomous to “The Ramones”_ - their look, their musical formula."\* > Not defining Punk is not the same as saying I think The Ramones are ‘synonomous’ with it. To my ear they are not punk, in sound or attitude. That said however, I don’t hate them. I just don’t think enough of them to take them seriously. So you’re saying that if you polled people who were casually engaged in music at best - or just exposed to older music via commercials and such - if you asked them to name an original Punk band, most would not say The Ramones and The Sex Pistols, with The Clash a ways behind in third? Of course they would. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ramones-haters-really/666328.md?page=4)