# Rand Paul and Chris Christie believe vaccines should be optional **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 3, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654 "2015-02-03T00:36:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/41 "2015-02-03T18:59:51Z")
Looks like GOP Congresscritters have been lining up on both sides of this one. Is there a debate in progress for the soul of the GOP, a serious fight over whether the Republicans will or won’t become an anti-vax party? My bet is that, as a party, they’ll take a non-stand on this one, saying it would be reasonable to take either a pro-vax or anti-vax stance. Of course, that’s almost as absurd as simply being anti-vax. “Shape of Earth: Views Differ, So Let’s Teach the Controversy” is almost as dumb as believing the Earth isn’t roughly spherical. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/42 "2015-02-03T19:20:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Looks like GOP Congresscritters have been lining up on both sides of this one. Is there a debate in progress for the soul of the GOP, a serious fight over whether the Republicans will or won’t become an anti-vax party? > > My bet is that, as a party, they’ll take a non-stand on this one, saying it would be reasonable to take either a pro-vax or anti-vax stance. Of course, that’s almost as absurd as simply being anti-vax. “Shape of Earth: Views Differ, So Let’s Teach the Controversy” is almost as dumb as believing the Earth isn’t roughly spherical. Totally agree. I guess I was wrong earlier…I guess Paul IS an anti-vaxer, or at least has leanings in that direction. Unreal. Here is a pretty good video from [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2015/02/03/newday-gupta-vaccine-autism-bts-long.cnn) interviewing Dr. Gupta on the subject, including his thoughts on Paul’s statement, if anyone is interested. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/43 "2015-02-03T19:29:50Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Why do you assume they are going for anti-vax voters?? Seems to me they are more Libertarian type stances, at least in Paul’s case, and really don’t have anything to do with anti-vaxers, per se. Seems more like, if Obama’s for it, they gotta be agin it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/44 "2015-02-03T19:42:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Seems more like, if Obama’s for it, they gotta be agin it. It’s not an issue that should be politicized, and I think it’s idiotic in the extreme if the Republicans politicize it AND if they decide to back an anti-vax stance. Ironic, too, since I usually associate anti-vaxer with the kookier side of the left wing, since in my own experience it’s generally new age/green whack-a-doos that go for it. That also must have shifted to right wing whack jobs though if the Republicans are looking at it as a positive on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/45 "2015-02-03T20:23:14Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/46 "2015-02-03T20:29:23Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > What a minute. When exactly did either of them “jump on the anti vaccine movement”? If their comments are read in their entirety, I don’t see any way to rationally conclude that either of them is in favor of the anti-vaccine movement. > > Meanwhile you’ll never guess who said [this](http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7963837/obama-vaccine-autism): > > “We’ve just seen a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it’s connected to the vaccines. This person included.” > > And [this](http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7963837/obama-vaccine-autism): > > “I am committed to making investments to finding the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines.” Yeah, when he says “This person included,” he’s not referring to himself; he’s pointing at a person in the crowd who asks about vaccine/autism links: [http://theweek.com/speedreads/537294/obama-didnt-really-suggest-vaccines-cause-autism-back-2008](http://theweek.com/speedreads/537294/obama-didnt-really-suggest-vaccines-cause-autism-back-2008) > **[No, it's untrue that Obama 'pandered to anti-vaxxers' in 2008](https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-no-obama-didnt-pander--20150202-column.html)** > > Participating in the extended game of "Telephone" that is the Internet, the news site Vox has unearthed a report of a public appearance by then-Sen. Edit: Looks like steronz got this info out first…sorry I missed that. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/47 "2015-02-04T00:08:27Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > What a minute. When exactly did either of them “jump on the anti vaccine movement”? If their comments are read in their entirety, I don’t see any way to rationally conclude that either of them is in favor of the anti-vaccine movement. > > Meanwhile you’ll never guess who said [this](http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7963837/obama-vaccine-autism): > > “We’ve just seen a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it’s connected to the vaccines. This person included.” > > And [this](http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7963837/obama-vaccine-autism): > > “I am committed to making investments to finding the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines.” Do you have anything similar from the period after the 2010 discovery of fraud by Wakefield and The Lancet’s retraction? I am sure that Obama was playing politics by not condemning the anti-vaxxers, openly. Pretending that his comments, six years ago, are comparable to Christie’s three nights ago or Rand’s outright idiocy is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/48 "2015-02-04T00:22:45Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So if that scenario happens, the children should be kidnapped from the parents and forcibly injected with a vaccine? > > Proponents of mandatory vaccines speak in the tone of so many disappointed catholic priests, yet they will not come out and say what a mandatory vaccine actually requires. No, no kidnapping. Just no public school.\* Private organizations (like Disney) can require proof of vaccination or bar you from entry. If you’re not vaccinated and travel abroad you get to spend a couple weeks in quarantine when you return. If an outbreak occurs the stupidly unvaccinated might be quarantined so they neither catch disease nor spread it. - For all purposes, those with a _medical_ reason not to be vaccinated will not be subjected to these restrictions - the exception being when there is a _medical_ reason to quarantine such a person. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/49 "2015-02-04T01:25:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It’s not an issue that should be politicized, and I think it’s idiotic in the extreme if the Republicans politicize it AND if they decide to back an anti-vax stance. Ironic, too, since I usually associate anti-vaxer with the kookier side of the left wing, since in my own experience it’s generally new age/green whack-a-doos that go for it. That also must have shifted to right wing whack jobs though if the Republicans are looking at it as a positive on their side. I wondered that too, I did think that on this issue there was more than a few from the left side of things, but it seems that as usual money talks louder and it looks like wealthy conservative areas are pushing more nowadays for the anti-science and conspiracies. [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/vaccine-critics-turn-defensive-over-measles.html?&\_r=1](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/vaccine-critics-turn-defensive-over-measles.html?&_r=1) > [@](#): > > The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that measles cases soared last year to 644, many more than in any other year in more than a decade. Since Jan. 1, the C.D.C. has confirmed 84 measles cases in 14 states. California’s health agency, which is updating a measles count more frequently, has reported 91 cases, with the biggest number, 27, here **in Orange County**. > > The county’s vaccination rate for kindergartners is about 90 percent, a little lower than the statewide rate, 90.4 percent. But rates in some pockets, especially in the wealthier southern half, are sharply lower. > > “There are different threads of concern out there” when it comes to vaccination, said Matt Zahn, the medical director for epidemiology at the Orange County Health Agency. “It becomes a game of Whack-a-Mole: As soon as you get rid of one issue, there’s another.” My opinion now is that Republicans did notice and [del]that money[/del] those voters could not be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/50 "2015-02-04T02:43:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Good to see somebody stepping forward to represent the pro-polio side of the issue. You know who else is pro-polio? [The Taliban.](http://time.com/3608578/pakistan-polio-taliban-public-health/) > [@Broomstick](#): > > \ If you’re not vaccinated and travel abroad you get to spend a couple weeks in quarantine when you return. \ That’s a fantastic idea. Looking at a brief history of outbreaks of preventable diseases, they almost always start when someone travels abroad. Or, alternatively, no passports issued to people who aren’t vaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/51 "2015-02-04T03:09:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > _Paul and Christie Endorse Status Quo on Vaccine Policy:_ Alarms sound over presidential hopefuls unwillingness to strap children to tables and administer government mandated innoculations. > [@emcee2k](#): > > A debate over whether or not parents should be required to vaccinate their kids is right up there with a debate over whether or not parents should be required to feed or clothe their kids. It’s just nuts. No! Don’t go there! Don’t get him started! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/52 "2015-02-04T03:18:57Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So if that scenario happens, the children should be kidnapped from the parents and forcibly injected with a vaccine? **Will,** before you posted this, several posters suggested enforcement methods and none went that far. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/53 "2015-02-04T03:22:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Will,** before you posted this, several posters suggested enforcement methods and none went that far. Of course not. They don’t have the proper ideological mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/54 "2015-02-04T03:38:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Swing and a miss. > > Obama (in case anyone couldn’t guess who ITR Champion was talking about) made those remarks in 2008. This was before the Wakefield study had been discredited. So at the time it was possible for a reasonable person to say it was an open issue that warranted investigation. Wakefield’s study was discredited way before 2008. In 2004, Lancet retracted the study, called it “fatally flawed”, and his paper co-authors published a retraction. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/55 "2015-02-04T03:43:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Do you have anything similar from the period after the 2010 discovery of fraud by Wakefield and The Lancet’s retraction? Initial [Lancet’s retraction was in](http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2804%2915715-2/abstract) [2004](http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-retraction.htm). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/56 "2015-02-04T03:46:07Z")
I’m not sure what the controversy is here. Both say that parents should vaccinate their kids, and all they are doing besides that is reaffirming what is already public policy: vaccines are in fact optional. Besides, I have been told, mostly by liberals, that no one should ever be forced to go through an invasive medical procedure. Sticking needles in people is invasive. To say that some Republicans are taking on an anti-vax stance is silly. As Will said, they are merely endorsing current law. I wasn’t aware that current law was regarded as anti-vax. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/57 "2015-02-04T04:09:06Z")
And most “liberals” here are taking the libertarian position, “sure, skip it if you want, but your decision has consequences - TANSTAAFL, bitch.” The problem is that just like so many economic decisions, the GOP wants to privatize profit and socialize risk. 'Cause freedom and God Bless the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/58 "2015-02-04T04:13:59Z")
If it helps, John Boehner just said in a press conference that he believed all children should be vaccinated, and Mitch McConnell said: "“As a victim of polio myself, I’m a big fan of vaccinations. If I were a parent who had a child who might be subject to … any particular disease I would come down on the side of vaccination,” " ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/59 "2015-02-04T04:15:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not sure what the controversy is here. Both say that parents should vaccinate their kids, and all they are doing besides that is reaffirming what is already public policy: vaccines are in fact optional. Not quite, even in conservative Arizona you need to get an exemption if you want your kid to go to school. And if one insists, then the unvaccinate kids should be kept out of school, the problem is that thanks to a few doctors that broke bad a lot of people are ignoring the laws. > **[Hundreds of Arizona schools skirting vaccination rule](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/investigations/2015/02/03/hundreds-arizona-schools-skirting-vaccination-rule/22805897/)** > > At least one in every three kindergartners who enrolled last year without measles vaccinations were missing exemption forms required by state law > [@](#): > > Nearly one in every three kindergartners in Arizona who enrolled last year without measles vaccinations were missing exemption forms required by state law, according to Arizona Department of Health Services data analyzed by The Arizona Republic. > > The law calls on schools to suspend students who are unvaccinated and do not have exemptions. Schools use those exemptions to track unvaccinated students so they can send them home when a student contracts measles. > [@adaher](#): > > Besides, I have been told, mostly by liberals, that no one should ever be forced to go through an invasive medical procedure. Sticking needles in people is invasive. Funny, in reality one of the reasons why the study by Wakefield and others was pulled was that very invasive procedures (that showed the opposite of what Wakefield tried to demonstrate) were done to little kids. > [@adaher](#): > > To say that some Republicans are taking on an anti-vax stance is silly. As Will said, they are merely endorsing current law. I wasn’t aware that current law was regarded as anti-vax. What the Republicans are doing now is the reason why Jim High tower said that on some subjects “There’s Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos” Sometimes the seemingly “middle of the road” is already a very compromised public policy. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/60 "2015-02-04T04:16:57Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And most “liberals” here are taking the libertarian position, “sure, skip it if you want, but your decision has consequences - TANSTAAFL, bitch.” So, most “liberals” here are taking the position that vaccinations should be voluntary? If so, why are they outraged at Rand Paul saying the same thing? And guess what, there is quite a lot of parents who report that children who were talking and developing normally withdraw and become autistic after the vaccinations - which is what Rand Paul said. But there is no causation - it is just that there are a lot of vaccinations that are given right around the time when autism usually starts showing itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654.md?page=4)