# Rand Paul and Chris Christie believe vaccines should be optional **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 3, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654 "2015-02-03T00:36:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/121 "2015-02-05T00:01:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Your personal attack is not appropriate to this forum. > > Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] Apologies. I sincerely meant for my attack to be on the post, not the person, but I do see in retrospect that it could seem personal. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/122 "2015-02-05T00:05:39Z")
Hey, I found your Christie quote, you didn’t link but my Google foo is strong! > **[Christie clarifies comments on measles vaccine after call for ‘balance’...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/02/02/christie-breaks-with-obama-over-measles-vaccine-calls-for-balance/)** > > The New Jersey governor says there is a need to balance public health with parental choice. The article starts with “…New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie walked back comments he made here Monday morning …”. So, Christie “clarified” his comments after the water got hot. Or he fell off his ass on the road back from London and repented. That works too, long as he agrees with me, I don’t that much care when it happened. In a way, kinda reassuring to watch him scramble to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/123 "2015-02-05T00:07:56Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Is this Christie’s view as well? We don’t need new laws, but you’re an idiot if you don’t vaccinate? This is the point of view of probably almost everyone here. But of course people are lining up in their usual partisan positions. Having said that, Paul’s statement is far too weaselly and really deserves the condemnation it received. Christie’s too, actually: both give too much potential room to be read into as providing respect to anti-vaxxers. Obama’s comment from six years ago was also poorly judged. I am glad he has clearly come a around to strong position in favor of vaccinations. I would like to see Paul and Christie do the same, and emitrely without words like “I’ve heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines,” which will inevitably appear to legitimize “concerns” about vaccinations to a certain segment of people. The subsequent weaseling from Paul hasn’t been remotely enough undo the damage caused by that single sentence. ETA: just saw and read **Elucidator** ’s link. Now it’s Rand Paul’s turn to pull that foot a little more convincingly out of his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/124 "2015-02-05T00:13:24Z")
Wouldn’t you just love it if they yelled “Geronimo!” when they bailed out? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/125 "2015-02-05T00:17:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wouldn’t you just love it if they yelled “Geronimo!” when they bailed out? A little more humor and a little less of pols taking everything so damn seriously certainly wouldn’t hurt! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/126 "2015-02-05T00:22:46Z")
Well, they _do_ have Dennis Miller… ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/127 "2015-02-05T00:44:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/02/02/christie-breaks-with-obama-over-measles-vaccine-calls-for-balance/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/02/02/christie-breaks-with-obama-over-measles-vaccine-calls-for-balance/) > > The article starts with “…New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie walked back comments he made here Monday morning …”. That’s the WaPo’s wording. But what did he “walk back” from? Sounds like it was the " I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things" quote - which seems rather similar to “the President certainly believes that these kinds of decisions are decisions that should be made by parents”. I’m puzzled by this from your linked article: > [@](#): > > In a break with President Obama, Christie said parents should have “some measure of choice” about immunizing their children from measles and other viruses and diseases. How is that a “break” with what the WH press secretary has said Obama believes? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/128 "2015-02-05T01:15:25Z")
Sometimes it’s incredible just how bad media reporting is. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/129 "2015-02-05T01:37:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sometimes it’s incredible just how bad media reporting is. That’s for sure. But this is not an example. Go read the Fox “News” thread for better ones. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/130 "2015-02-05T01:40:43Z")
**Xema** , whatever, cool. Christie’s got it right today, so fine. Now, its just up to that other guy to pull his head out of his ass and his foot out of his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/131 "2015-02-05T02:11:26Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > This is the point of view of probably almost everyone here. But of course people are lining up in their usual partisan positions. > > Having said that, Paul’s statement is far too weaselly and really deserves the condemnation it received. Christie’s too, actually: both give too much potential room to be read into as providing respect to anti-vaxxers. Yeah, I agree. My post probably wasn’t clear. Xema was suggesting that Obama and Christie were saying the same thing, when really they weren’t. Christie and Paul, as you say, were trying to leave enough room in their remarks for the anti-science crowd. Obama, I think, is saying, “We don’t want to strap people down and give them shots, but use your heads for fuck’s sake.” Anyway, I think I’d like to see more states have laws that say you have to be immunized in order to attend any public or private school, and exemptions are not easy to get – e.g., only medical exemptions signed by a doctor and notarized. Lots of states, like my home state, make it easy to get a religious exemption. You basically just have to write a note exempting yourself. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/132 "2015-02-05T02:56:22Z")
I still wonder why is that Paul and Christie are doubling down on the weasel words, this is because I do agree that there is more than just a few liberals also on the woo woo side in favor of the anti-vaccine ideas… Unless, they are finding that what I think is happening is correct, it is very likely that the numbers of the ones that deny the science on this issue are growing more on the right side nowadays. And they are hopping to take a bunch of the liberal ones to the Republican side. As if the Republicans had not enough anti-science believers to pander before. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/133 "2015-02-05T03:44:59Z")
I wonder what that liberal rag the Wall Street Journal has to say. [Rand Paul joins the Santa Monica left by indulging bad science.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQqQIwBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fthe-weird-vaccine-panic-1423010524&ei=iuTSVO7uG4HwggSQ0IPIBQ&usg=AFQjCNH5wL7lkKaWiyQMNWwsOLGwScr4Ww&sig2=vHiEf-4BBzxFxClkroRc5g&bvm=bv.85142067,d.eXY&cad=rja) > [@](#): > > On Tuesday we rapped Chris Christie for his odd doubts about public vaccines amid a dangerous outbreak of measles in California. But it seems this is something of an epidemic among potential GOP presidential candidates, so perhaps it’s time for some facts about science, liberty and public health. > > Rand Paul joined the vaccine follies Monday in an interview with CNBC. While acknowledging vaccines are a “medical breakthrough” and it is a “great idea” to raise “public awareness of how good vaccines are for kids,” Mr. Paul then gave credence to the conspiracy theories that have frightened parents. He suggested there is a health concern in giving “five and six vaccines all at one time” and explained that he had delayed his own child’s immunizations. > [@](#): > > As for Mr. Paul, he will have to avoid these libertarian dormitory passions if he wants to be a credible candidate. Government doesn’t “force” parents to vaccinate children. The states impose penalties (such as barring attendance in public schools) on those who pose a risk to public health by refusing vaccinations against infectious diseases. This strikes us as a legitimate use of state “police powers” under the Constitution. It is also a reasonable and small sacrifice of liberty to prevent the potentially fatal infection of unsuspecting infants at Disneyland. > > Let’s chalk up the weird science of Messrs. Paul and Christie to a lack of information, and we’re happy to send them 13 years of vaccine editorials if they want to study up. The not-so-great measles vaccine debate of 2015 is one of those events that makes us wonder if there is such a thing as human progress. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/134 "2015-02-05T04:15:34Z")
Here’s an opinion piece from the very conservative [RedState](http://www.redstate.com/). [Rand Paul and Pandering to the Paranoid](http://www.redstate.com/2015/02/04/rand-paul-pandering-paranoid/) > [@](#): > > Thankfully, I think we can all agree that Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) comments on this matter (as reported by the Washington Free Beacon) are facially insane and beyond the pale of reasonable debate. > > [video] > > To summarize (for those who don’t want to watch the whole video), Paul says (in the course of appearing on the show of one Alex Jones, avowed 9/11 truther and certified insane person who preaches daily to other similarly insane people) that the concept of vaccines being mandatory is a precursor to “martial law.” I don’t know if Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) understands what the term “martial law” means but what he is suggesting here is that if we allow “mandatory” vaccinations then literally the military will take over the rule of this country. I’m not even sure what the logical chain of causation might be in this circumstance, and it seems that this theory has been proven conclusively false since the smallpox vaccination raids I mentioned earlier took place in the late 1800s and early 1900s and the generals aren’t really any closer to running things now than they were then. > > Furthermore, the entire point about this being a matter of “individual health care” is a complete non sequitur. This isn’t about deciding the direction of your own personal medical treatment, it’s about preventing the spread of infectious disease which is of necessity a matter of public concern. This is not an area in which we are engaging in nearly as much guesswork as Paul surmises. In the early days of the smallpox vaccine, the vaccine was extraordinarily dangerous by modern standards, killing approximately 2% of the vaccinated population. However, systematic studies discovered that 14% of the non-vaccinated population was dying of smallpox. The question then became whether your right to not to risk 2% chance of death outweighed society’s interest in not having a 14% chance of dying of smallpox. The math, as they say, is not close. Understandably, everyone believes at some level that they are the protagonist of the entire universe but generally speaking none of us has the legal right to make choices in the course of our own self-determination that will lead to the deaths of seven other innocent people. So you can thank Rand Paul for warning you of the slippery slope from vaccinations to Martial Law. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/135 "2015-02-05T05:10:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wouldn’t you just love it if they yelled “Geronimo!” when they bailed out? [1970s Polish joke]_knock_knock “What was that Indian’s name again?”[/1970PJ] ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/136 "2015-02-05T05:57:04Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Fortunately for you and our sanity, and unfortunately for ITR Champion, Vox issued an update to that article with a video showing that Obama clearly _wasn’t_ referring to himself. He does still leave open the possibility that some environment cause like vaccines could be connected, which was probably prudent in 2008, but as the same update points out, Obama made his position on vaccination abundantly clear back then. Shame on everyone for spreading this quote around, but at least one news site still issues retractions (sorry, “Updates”). Well, no doubt about it; I made a mistake. I apologize. **dalej42** , I will note, has not acknowledged the equally mistaken statement that he used in the OP of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/137 "2015-02-05T11:08:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Seems more like, if Obama’s for it, they gotta be agin it. Totally. If Obama declared himself in favor of drivers stopping at red lights, that particular law would instantly change from a “sensible rule that helps society function without needless deaths and injuries” to a “government intrusion on my right to do whatever the fuck I want to.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/138 "2015-02-05T13:03:56Z")
I think it’s a stretch to say Obama pandered to anti-vaxxers. He was addressing a woman in the crowd, and rather than say “that’s a stupid question, ya silly bitch!” he stated the need for conclusive research on the matter, which has since been done. Rand Paul certainly implied a link between vaccines and mental disorders, no matter how he tries to walk it back. To me, the most disturbing thing in this whole discussion has been Rand Paul’s statement “The government does not own our kids, parents own their kids”. Really? We _own_ our children? That’s quite a disgusting idea. We are their guardians and their caregivers, we most assuredly are not their owners. Maybe we should get Rand Paul’s owner, Ron Paul, to tell Rand to shut up and go home. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/139 "2015-02-05T14:33:03Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Maybe we should get Rand Paul’s owner, Ron Paul, to tell Rand to shut up and go home. In any case, he might be better off forgetting about the national political stage until dear old Dad passes on to the libertarian utopia in the sky and most voters associate the name “Ron Paul” with the Pocket Fisherman and the Veg-O-Matic. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654/140 "2015-02-05T14:44:29Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think it’s a stretch to say Obama pandered to anti-vaxxers. He was addressing a woman in the crowd, and rather than say “that’s a stupid question, ya silly bitch!” he stated the need for conclusive research on the matter, which has since been done. > > Rand Paul certainly implied a link between vaccines and mental disorders, no matter how he tries to walk it back. > > To me, the most disturbing thing in this whole discussion has been Rand Paul’s statement “The government does not own our kids, parents own their kids”. \*\*Really? We _own_ our children? That’s quite a disgusting idea. We are their guardians and their caregivers, we most assuredly are not their owners. \*\* Maybe we should get Rand Paul’s owner, Ron Paul, to tell Rand to shut up and go home. OT, but if I tell my 15 year old daughter to do something she doesn’t like, she will retort, “You don’t own me!” I often say, “Yes, I do. I even have the warranty and receipt for you around here somewhere.” “THERE ARE LAWS AGAINST SLAVERY!!” “Yeah, it’s OK if your kids are slaves. It’s a loophole.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-chris-christie-believe-vaccines-should-be-optional/711654.md?page=8)