# Rand Paul And Fauci **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 20, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905 "2021-07-20T17:41:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/121 "2021-10-15T03:39:00Z")
There were other high-placed people who didn’t recommend masks early on. Michael Osterholm, Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, now on Biden’s Covid Advisory Board, was saying well into July of 2020 that, while it seemed intuitive that masks helped prevent the spread of Covid, there was no actual evidence that showed as such - what studies there were were confounded by too many other elements to prove anything one way or another. And places like New Zealand had no use of masks early on, and had no spread. Once the evidence and the knowledge about how the disease was spreading advanced, he and others went along with the evidence. That’s how it’s supposed to work. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/122 "2021-10-15T04:24:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The lie was that masks didn’t work. That statement is so reductionist as to be completely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/123 "2021-10-15T04:41:05Z")
I can’t understand the way you guys think. Clearly, the solution to Covid in, say, New York City was to para drop Special Forces medics on mini motorcycles (led by the man that should have been Surgeon General, Dr. Ben Ghazi) and use firefighting planes to dump millions of gallons of hand sanitizer on the most infected parts of the city using landmark churches as targeting points. It’s the only rational solution we had at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/124 "2021-10-15T11:07:13Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > then people would have waited and let the doctors have all the masks until the recommendations changed. Yeah, for instance once it became clear that there was going to be a shortage of toilet paper and other paper and cleaning products, people immediately adjusted their purchasing decisions to only pick up what they needed for a reasonable time frame, ensuring plenty of supply for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/125 "2021-10-15T11:47:57Z")
… or when the pipeline got ransomware’d affecting most of the Eastern United States, even though it did not impact the supply going to Florida, Florida still ran out of gas. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/126 "2021-10-15T11:59:29Z")
Now, in spite of massive evidence that vaccines and masks work, a significant portion of the population still refuses both. My opinion is that Fauci didn’t intentional lie. What would be the motive? On the other hand, leaders of the Republican party and right wing media lied and are still lying about masks and vaccines ostensibly because “Freedom!” but actually because they want to remain in power and make more money. Remember “I downplayed it and I’m still downplaying it.”? Magiver’s arguments are the equivalent of “But the emails!” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/127 "2021-10-15T13:24:04Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Yeah, for instance once it became clear that there was going to be a shortage of toilet paper and other paper and cleaning products, people immediately adjusted their purchasing decisions to only pick up what they needed for a reasonable time frame, ensuring plenty of supply for everyone. ![](https://c.tenor.com/zLLgtFqb_QYAAAAM/simpsons-sarcastic.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/128 "2021-10-15T13:50:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The lie was that masks didn’t work. Except that Fauci never said that. His statements back in March 2020 were that masks offered imperfect protection against Covid-19, _and_ that public demand could cause a supply crisis that denied masks to front-line health care workers. For example: "On March 27, Fauci spoke to a San Francisco NBC affiliate. He said given the shortage of masks, the general public ranked last behind doctors and nurses, and people who are infected. “When we say you don’t need to wear a mask, what we’re really saying is make sure you prioritize it first for the people who need the mask,” Fauci said. “In a perfect world, if you had all the masks you wanted, then you could get some degree of protection, but make sure you prioritize it well.” > **[Did Anthony Fauci lie about masks?](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/29/did-anthony-fauci-lie-masks-march-marco-rubio-said/4068162001/)** > > Anthony Fauci, head of infectious diseases at the National Institutes of Health, has offered evolving guidance on mask wearing. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/129 "2021-10-15T13:58:27Z")
For those who care about the actual science behind the decisions and aren’t just trying to score silly political points (in other words, not Magiver), you might find this article pretty interesting. It’s about the early days and the thought process behind washing your hands versus wearing a mask, etc. It goes into detail about where things like the idea that 6 feet of distancing is ideal (wrong) and that droplets have to be 5 micron to be airborne (also wrong) came from in the first place and why they lasted as long as they did in the mainstream of medicine. It’s on Wired and I happen to be a subscriber, but it didn’t appear paywalled even when I’m signed out. > **[The 60-Year-Old Scientific Screwup That Helped Covid Kill](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/)** > > All pandemic long, scientists brawled over how the virus spreads. Droplets! No, aerosols! At the heart of the fight was a teensy error with huge consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/130 "2021-10-15T16:40:46Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Let’s take for example the argument that, if he had simply explained that the masks were limited and - on the balance - more strongly needed elsewhere, then people would have waited and let the doctors have all the masks until the recommendations changed. All that was needed was a ban on the sale of them to non-medical people. Once it was established that they were necessary for non-medical people then you would have seen people making their own. That’s why the lie matters. He delayed this process. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/131 "2021-10-15T16:44:43Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Now, in spite of massive evidence that vaccines and masks work, a significant portion of the population still refuses both. My opinion is that Fauci didn’t intentional lie. What would be the motive? I’ve posted his motive in his own words. So it’s not up for debate. He is the national spokesperson on the issue. What he said mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/132 "2021-10-15T16:55:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Except that Fauci never said that. You should contact him and advise him to stop explaining why he told people not to wear masks. [Fauci says he doesn’t regret telling Americans not to wear masks at the beginning of the pandemic](https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-doesnt-regret-advising-against-masks-early-in-pandemic-2020-7) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/133 "2021-10-15T16:59:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You should contact him and advise him to stop explaining why he told people not to wear masks. > > [Fauci says he doesn’t regret telling Americans not to wear masks at the beginning of the pandemic](https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-doesnt-regret-advising-against-masks-early-in-pandemic-2020-7) Uh, what @Jackmannii pointed at was your post that claimed that Faici said that masks didn’t work, that was not correct at all. > “I don’t regret anything I said then because in the context of the time in which I said it, it was correct. We were told in our task force meetings that we have a serious problem with the lack of PPEs and masks for the health providers who are putting themselves in harm’s way every day to take care of sick people,” [Fauci told O’Donnell.](https://www.instyle.com/news/dr-fauci-says-with-all-due-modesty-i-think-im-pretty-effective) > > “When it became clear that the infection could be spread by asymptomatic carriers who don’t know they’re infected, that made it very clear that we had to strongly recommend masks,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/134 "2021-10-15T17:00:10Z")
Where is the lie? Maybe Fauci was wrong at the beginning (or maybe not), but you haven’t cited him admitting he lied. Rand Paul, on the other hand, has lied many times about Fauci and about COVID. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/135 "2021-10-15T17:06:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Uh, what @Jackmannii pointed at was your post that claimed that Faici said that masks didn’t work, that was not correct at all. [Dr.Anthony Fauci wrote in February 2020 that store-bought face masks would not be very effective at protecting against the COVID-19 pandemic and advised a traveler not to wear one.](https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/136 "2021-10-15T17:07:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Fauci wrote:](https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703) "Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection. > > “The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you.” So, technically, Fauci did say masks don’t work, if you parse this one way. He did NOT say that NO mask works; he said that the ones that you (at that time) normally buy at the drugstore (i.e. wimpy single-ply paper ones) don’t work. That’s not much of a lie. That’s not a lie at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/137 "2021-10-15T17:09:31Z")
Right – Fauci said “Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected”. And that is still true. The primary purpose of masks is to keep the mask-wearer from spreading infection. They do a much better job of this than from protecting the mask-wearer from other people’s infection (though there is some benefit there too, as Fauci acknowledges). AFAICT Fauci said a true thing there – the main function of masks is to help prevent the spread of infection. And that’s why people should still wear masks when indoors in public places or otherwise in close-contact with strangers – to prevent spreading infection to them. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/138 "2021-10-15T18:56:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > All that was needed was a ban on the sale of them to non-medical people. Once it was established that they were necessary for non-medical people then you would have seen people making their own. > > That’s why the lie matters. He delayed this process. If we can safely assume that Anthony Fauci had that power then sure. As I understand it, though, the Trump administration would generally have taken the stance that they didn’t have powers like that and Fauci would have been constrained to that. Conceivably, he proposed. And, just as conceivably, Trump or one of his advisors advised this response. It’s fairly easy to show that the Trump’s administration’s general strategy at the time was to lie about the danger outlook of the virus while working behind the scenes to fight it. Fauci would be, probably, the smallest element in that. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/139 "2021-10-15T23:20:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Once it was established that they were necessary for non-medical people then you would have seen people making their own. We did see exactly this. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905/140 "2021-10-15T23:59:21Z")
Do we need to be wasting any more electrons arguing with **Magiver** about this? [![](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png) ](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-and-fauci/946905.md?page=8)