# Rand Paul apparently really likes Wikipedia **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 30, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621 "2013-10-30T03:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/61 "2013-11-03T23:10:27Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t really know that this is meaningful at all. Plagiarism in itself is a vaguely defined, mostly pointless term outside of academics and journalism where there are more definite rules about it. Paul was obviously talking about a movie, and I actually did a search on the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article and you see _extremely similar_ content all over the internet, on imdb, on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) describing the DVD etc. The passage from Wikipedia in itself might very well be cribbed from somewhere else or even just a slight modification of the summary of the movie found on the back of the DVD/VHS tape of the film. > > I doubt very many people would be shocked to find out Paul’s speechwriters borrowed the summary description of a film from some popular source. I don’t think any of that really matters. I don’t think its a particularly terrible case of plagarism, but plagiarism it remains. That said, the level of wrong-doing here is about on a level with an unpaid parking ticket. Mildly embarrassing, but I doubt it will effect him unless it feeds into a wider narrative of similar problems, as happened with Biden ( and which, if the above article about Paul plagiarizing three pages of his book ends up being true, might happen here as well). Also, as a political pro-tip to Mr Paul, the way to have the media ignore a mildly embarrassing story is to make as boring and clear a statement as possible, not make jokes about challenging people to duels. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/62 "2013-11-04T00:56:50Z")
So, anyone who wants to claim that either of the Pauls is libertarian, can you find any two social issues where either of them is at all liberal? Unless you’re going to argue that they’re only fiscally libertarian, because “libertarian but only on fiscal issues” isn’t libertarian, it’s Republican. Of course, Ron Paul isn’t even libertarian on all fiscal issues, given that he wants to nationalize the precious metals industry. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/63 "2013-11-04T02:53:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, anyone who wants to claim that either of the Pauls is libertarian, can you find any two social issues where either of them is at all liberal? Unless you’re going to argue that they’re only fiscally libertarian, because “libertarian but only on fiscal issues” isn’t libertarian, it’s Republican. > > Of course, Ron Paul isn’t even libertarian on all fiscal issues, given that he wants to nationalize the precious metals industry. I don’t know what the libertarian “party line” is, but I don’t think libertarians are necessarily “liberal” on social issues. We also have to define social issues, as well. Ron Paul is opposed to the death penalty and believes the government shouldn’t limit access to marijuana, and opposes the War on Drugs in general. I’d imagine those would qualify as two social issues where he has “liberal” positions. I don’t really know that either are libertarians at all though, I suspect the term is being misused in reference to them. I think both are very strong State’s Rights advocates, but they seem to be fine with heavy-handed State government intervention in citizen’s lives. They are more anti-Federal than they are libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/64 "2013-11-04T03:04:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, anyone who wants to claim that either of the Pauls is libertarian, can you find any two social issues where either of them is at all liberal? They’re opposed to violating people’s rights for the sake of security theatre, and they’re opposed to starting wars. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/65 "2013-11-04T05:36:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I understand it’s plagiarism. But it’s not like Paul had ever claimed he wrote the speech or that anyone had expected him to write his own speech. Paul paid somebody else to write a speech for him and that person plagiarized wikipedia. Depending on your sympathies you can see this as Paul being the victim of an unethical employee or that Paul is a poor supervisor who doesn’t promote good ethics in his staff. But let’s face facts; Paul himself wasn’t copying wikipedia. Yes politicians are to be held responsible for not promoting good ethics. Just so happens that this is a Tea Party Republican who plagiarizes Wikipedia entries instead of a establishment Democrat who bombs children at funerals. Obviously the former must be taken to task by the Rachel Maddows of the world while the latter is worshipped by the same. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/66 "2013-11-04T05:40:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, anyone who wants to claim that either of the Pauls is libertarian, can you find any two social issues where either of them is at all liberal? Unless you’re going to argue that they’re only fiscally libertarian, because “libertarian but only on fiscal issues” isn’t libertarian, it’s Republican. > > Of course, Ron Paul isn’t even libertarian on all fiscal issues, given that he wants to nationalize the precious metals industry. You repeat this ignorance any time you have the chance. First you claim neither Paul is libertarian because they aren’t liberal on social issues. Uh that would be because they are libertarian on social issues, not liberal. Also Ron Paul doesn’t want to nationalize the good industry, he wants to denationalize the money industry. Noticing the difference would require more than the demagogue’s patience. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/67 "2013-11-04T06:32:34Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes politicians are to be held responsible for not promoting good ethics. Just so happens that this is a Tea Party Republican who plagiarizes Wikipedia entries instead of a establishment Democrat who bombs children at funerals. Obviously the former must be taken to task by the Rachel Maddows of the world while the latter is worshipped by the same. I’m not the least bit optimistic in the open-mindedness of someone who uses verbs like “worship” to characterize the Rachel Maddows of the world (but at least you didn’t say “her ilk”), but there’s always a chance. Here are some links of MSNBC hosts discussing the drone problem in a less than worshipful way. Took me about ten seconds to find them, rather longer to watch or read them. [http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rachel-maddow/52115331#52115331](http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rachel-maddow/52115331#52115331) [http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now/53315233#53315233](http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now/53315233#53315233) [http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48044317/#.Unc8ihDZuic](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48044317/#.Unc8ihDZuic) (transcript of Maddow show from June 2012; click on “more text” for an interview of a Pakistani reporting civilian casualties from drone strikes) [Rachel Maddow On Drone Strikes: 'One Of The More Orwellian Things' About 21st Century America | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/11/rachel-maddow-drone-strikes-john-brennan_n_2455782.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/68 "2013-11-04T06:33:32Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t know what the libertarian “party line” is, but I don’t think libertarians are necessarily “liberal” on social issues. We also have to define social issues, as well. > > Ron Paul is opposed to the death penalty and believes the government shouldn’t limit access to marijuana, and opposes the War on Drugs in general. I’d imagine those would qualify as two social issues where he has “liberal” positions. > > I don’t really know that either are libertarians at all though, I suspect the term is being misused in reference to them. I think both are very strong State’s Rights advocates, but they seem to be fine with heavy-handed State government intervention in citizen’s lives. **They are more anti-Federal than they are libertarian**. I agree with the last part very strongly. Anyone who strenuously argues against Lawrence V. Texas and argues that state governments have the right to regulate the private, consensual, sexual activity between adults, as Paul does, has no business classifying themselves as a believer in freedom. If you believe that the State of Alabama has the right to set up a committee for the the promotion of virtue and prevention of vice and prosecute people for stuff like adultery then you’re not a believer in limiting government. You’re simply a believer in having state governments so powerful they can prevent the federal government from doing anything. That said, I don’t know Rand Paul’s view on Texas V. Lawrence or his opinion of his dad’s views. ---
**Author:** ![bahimes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@bahimes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bahimes)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/69 "2013-11-04T14:04:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Doesn’t believe in genetics. Guess I wouldn’t either if I had Ru Paul for a Dad. I saw what you did. But it took a while.😃 ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/70 "2013-11-04T14:26:55Z")
NPR pointed out this morning that Rand Paul might want to rethink this duel thing, since under the rules of dueling, if he challenges Rachel Maddow, she gets to pick the weapons. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/71 "2013-11-04T15:37:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, Ron Paul isn’t even libertarian on all fiscal issues, given that he wants to nationalize the precious metals industry. Really? Why? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/72 "2013-11-04T15:39:46Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Also Ron Paul doesn’t want to nationalize the good industry, he wants to denationalize the money industry. What then? Every state has its own currency? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/73 "2013-11-04T15:47:37Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’m not the least bit optimistic in the open-mindedness of someone who uses verbs like “worship” to characterize the Rachel Maddows of the world (but at least you didn’t say “her ilk”), but there’s always a chance. Here are some links of MSNBC hosts discussing the drone problem in a less than worshipful way. Took me about ten seconds to find them, rather longer to watch or read them. > > [http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rachel-maddow/52115331#52115331](http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rachel-maddow/52115331#52115331) > [http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now/53315233#53315233](http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now/53315233#53315233) > [http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48044317/#.Unc8ihDZuic](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48044317/#.Unc8ihDZuic) (transcript of Maddow show from June 2012; click on “more text” for an interview of a Pakistani reporting civilian casualties from drone strikes) > [Rachel Maddow On Drone Strikes: 'One Of The More Orwellian Things' About 21st Century America | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/11/rachel-maddow-drone-strikes-john-brennan_n_2455782.html) If you want to deny that Rachel Maddow worships her idealized vision of Obama be my guest. I will not wade through that garbage you posted but if you want to post a specific instance in which a Maddowite takes Obama personally to task for his moral failing that would be helpful. Otherwise you dumped a heaping pile of evidence in support of my claims. The more likely scenario is that they criticize the drone program but don’t lay a glove on the mass murderer in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/74 "2013-11-04T15:51:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What then? Every state has its own currency? No, no: every _man_ has his own currency. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/75 "2013-11-04T15:56:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What then? Every state has its own currency? The quantity and nature of money will be decided by the actions of all individuals in the market just as the production of pencils and locomotives is decided. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/76 "2013-11-04T16:08:42Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The quantity and nature of money will be decided by the actions of all individuals in the market just as the production of pencils and locomotives is decided. So, a barter economy, then. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/77 "2013-11-04T16:17:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The quantity and nature of money will be decided by the actions of all individuals in the market just as the production of pencils and locomotives is decided. As witnessed by the bustling economy in Somalia. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/78 "2013-11-04T16:18:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > … Democrat who bombs children at funerals… Does the verb _Godwinize_ require specific reference to Hitler or Nazis? Or can it be applied more generally for gibberish like Farnaby’s? But speaking of “Libertarian” there seems to be much confusion whether the term refers to those for whom Property Rights (including intellectual property rights), rather than Human Rights, constitute Religion and those who actually favor … wait for it … [unconstrained _Liberty_, as in the song “And on the sign it said ‘No Trespassing.’ But on the other side it didn’t say nothing, …”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r0MQpUTIow) So maybe Paul is a real “Libertarian” after all! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/79 "2013-11-04T17:58:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, a barter economy, then. No. Money would arise in the absence of government. [Carl Menger pointed this out years ago.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Menger) > [@](#): > > If people barter, he pointed out, then they can rarely get what they want in one or two transactions. If they have lamps and want chairs, for example, they will not necessarily be able to trade lamps for chairs but may instead have to make a few intermediate trades. This is a hassle. But people notice that the hassle is much less when they trade what they have for some good that is widely accepted, and then use this good to buy what they want. The good that is widely accepted eventually becomes money > [@BobLibDem](#): > > As witnessed by the bustling economy in Somalia. Somalia’s economy has improved at a faster rate than comparable neighbors in the period following the collapse of its state. > [@septimus](#): > > Does the verb _Godwinize_ require specific reference to Hitler or Nazis? Or can it be applied more generally for gibberish like Farnaby’s? Obama’s drone program has killed thousands of innocent people. Many of them visiting funerals of drone strike victims. Many of them children. The best you can do is cheeky references to an internet meme. Very millenial of you. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/80 "2013-11-04T18:02:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Somalia’s economy has improved at a faster rate than comparable neighbors in the period following the collapse of its state. Would that be due to the GPP (Gross Pirate Product)? Don’t be looking at a failed state as your model for a civilized society. We’ve figured decades ago that national currencies are a necessary fact of life. Get with the program. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621.md?page=5)