# Rand Paul apparently really likes Wikipedia **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 30, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621 "2013-10-30T03:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/101 "2013-11-05T21:43:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It benefits governments to monopolize the production of money so that the can monetize debt and pay off their special interests without the political obstacles of raising taxes. That’s why there are no instances among developed countries. If people want to arrange to use private currency-equivalents among themselves to pay bills other than tax bills, nothing is stopping them. But such things never seem to catch on when tried – [Bitcoins](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bitcoin), f’rinstance. There’s also such thing as scrip, but it never circulates outside a micromarket. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/102 "2013-11-05T22:44:20Z")
Rand says, fine, I’ll attribute my sources, “if it will make people leave me the hell alone.” > **[Meet the Press: Inside Takes on the Latest Stories with Chuck Todd](https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press?lite)** > > Follow Chuck Todd as he uncovers breaking news events with the experts on NBCNews.com. Find coverage on the latest in politics, news, business, and more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/103 "2013-11-05T22:45:46Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Rand says, fine, I’ll attribute my sources, “if it will make people leave me the hell alone.” > > [Meet the Press: Inside Takes on the Latest Stories with Kristen Welker | NBC News](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/05/21322496-paul-pledges-new-approval-process-amid-plagiarism-charges?lite) Well, it wouldn’t entirely, she would still have to pay taxes in government currency, so she would have to have some ways to get some. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/104 "2013-11-06T15:35:57Z")
The Washington Times is discontinuing Paul’s weekly column. In explanation the editors said: > [@](#): > > Mr. Paul has been a prolific op-ed writer in recent years, penning hundreds of pieces in The Times and other media outlets. But the body of his work is getting fresh attention from journalists as they uncover multiple cases of lifting other people’s work without giving them credit. When asked for comment upon hearing the news, Mr. Paul replied: > [@](#): > > I have been a prolific op-ed writer in recent years, penning hundreds of pieces in The Times and other media outlets. But the body of my work is getting fresh attention from journalists as they uncover multiple cases of lifting other people’s work without giving them credit. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/105 "2013-11-06T22:05:24Z")
Well played, **Sicks Ate**. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/106 "2013-11-06T23:35:27Z")
[Too funny.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/11/06/rand-paul-plagiarism/3451991/) > [@](#): > > “Going forward, footnotes will be available on request,” he said. “There have also been occasions where quotations or typesetting indentations have been left out through errors in our approval process. From here forward, quoting, footnoting and citing will be more complete.” This is exactly what I am going to ask students when I suspect then of plagiarism. “Did you leave out footnotes and typesetting indentations through errors in your approval process?” ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/107 "2013-11-06T23:42:51Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > [Too funny.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/11/06/rand-paul-plagiarism/3451991/) The excuse is pretty obviously BS, in anycase. I’d be open to the idea that the editor just forgot to typeset something as a quote. But the text of the quote was changed somewhat, so obviously this isn’t the case. Plus, who puts a three page block quote in a popular politics books? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/108 "2013-11-07T01:33:37Z")
I can’t believe how badly he’s handling this. Usually with guys like this, I don’t believe they are as dumb as they come off; I just assume they are doing some combination of dumbing down and pandering to their target audience. But Paul is speaking in Washington, to national news broadcasts, not some holler in Kentucky. And he genuinely appears to not know what plagiarism is. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/109 "2013-11-07T05:12:24Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > And he genuinely appears to not know what plagiarism is. I’m pretty darned sure he knows exactly what it is. He’s just decided that he can’t actually admit it, because it would be admitting that he (and, by extension, his staff) is lazy at best, and of questionable morality at worst. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/110 "2013-11-07T16:35:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would that be due to the GPP (Gross Pirate Product)? > > Don’t be looking at a failed state as your model for a civilized society. We’ve figured decades ago that national currencies are a necessary fact of life. Get with the program. Ridiculous form of argument. Because we had instituted something decades ago, it does not follow that it was a good idea. Examples: Slavery, Jim Crow Laws, Prohibition. All things that were “figured out” at some point and then changed. > [@TonySinclair](#): > > What a bunch of lame backpedaling. > > Does she jump up and down and call Obama a baby-killer? No, she doesn’t. But that wasn’t what I claimed. The only “claim” I made was that the videos refute YOUR repeated claim that she worships Obama. Having extended segments critical of his policies does refute that for any objective person, and I’m not interested in chasing your rapidly receding goalposts. Actually my initial claim was that Maddowites find it necessary to hold Tea Party Republicans responsible for ethical failures but not establishment Democrats. I also threw in the bit about worship in a rhetorical flourish. I thought the info dump you initially provided was to refute the first claim, but it was evidently to refute the “worship” claim. No i do not think Maddow worships the president. I do think she holds him to a lower ethical standard than Rand Paul. > [@Chronos](#): > > If I bake bread, I can sell it at whatever price I want. Maybe I’ll price it too high, and nobody will want to buy my bread, or maybe I’ll price it too low, and won’t get as much profit from it as I could, but it’s my decision. Decisions like that are what running a business is all about. Likewise if I make watches, or automobiles, or most any other sort of product for sale. But if Paul had his way, then the sellers of gold would not be able to choose their own price. They would have a price mandated for them by the government. When the government is making my most important business decision for me, I call that a government takeover of the business. This is confusing the issue. Say the government defines the dollar as 1/1000 of a gold ounce. If a producer mines 1/1000 of a gold ounce he can trade it for a dollar, a lottery ticket, a beverage, a loaf of bread, etc. The price of goods is now set in their relation to the quantity of gold. [Murray Rothbard:](http://mises.org/rothbard/genuine.asp) > [@](#): > > A corollary criticism, and a favorite of monetarists, asks why gold standard advocates would have the government “fix the (dollar) price of gold” when they are generally opposed to fixing any other prices. Why leave the market free to determine all prices except the price of gold? > > But this criticism totally misconceives the meaning of the concept of price. A “price” is the quantity exchanged of one commodity on the market in terms of another. Thus, in barter, if a package of six light bulbs is exchanged on the market for one pound of butter, then the price per light bulb is one-sixth of a pound of butter. Or, if there is monetary exchange, the price of each light bulb will be a certain weight of gold, or, these days, numbers of cents or dollars. The important point is that price is the ratio of quantities of two commodities being exchanged. But if money is on a gold standard, the dollar and gold will no longer be two independent commodities, whose price should be free to fluctuate on the market. They will be one commodity, one a unit of weight of the other. To call for a “free market” in the “price of gold” is as ludicrous as calling for a free market of ounces in terms of pounds, or inches in terms of yards. How many inches equal a yard is not something subject to daily fluctuations on the free or any other market. The answer is fixed eternally by definition, and what a gold standard entails is a fixed, absolute, unchanging definition as in the case of any other measure or unit of weight. The market necessarily exchanges two different commodities rather than one commodity for itself. To call for a free market in the price of gold would, in short, be as absurd as calling for a fluctuating market price for dollars in terms of cents. How many cents constitute a dollar is no more subject to daily fluctuation and uncertainty than inches in terms of yards. On the contrary, a truly free market in money will exist only when the dollar is once again strictly defined and therefore redeemable in terms of weights of gold. After that, gold will be exchangeable, at freely fluctuating prices, for the weights of all other goods and services on the market. > > In short, the very description of a gold standard as “fixing the price of gold” is a grave misinterpretation. In a gold standard, the “price of gold” is not unaccountably fixed by government intervention. Rather, the “dollar,” for the past half-century a mere paper ticket issued by the government, will become defined once again as a unit of weight of gold. > [@septimus](#): > > I’m only skimming the thread, but it sounds like we’ve finally gotten you to hint at your example of Farnabopia ! Thanks! I didn’t bring up Somalia. One of the robots did that. > [@](#): > > Romney has endorsed the drones(\*). AFAIK McCain, Bush, Cheney, et all are all gung-ho droners. _ **What I want to know is: Why do you and all the other “Jesus==Obama” memers insist on speaking of “Obama’s” drones instead of “U.S.A.'s”??** _ Just answer that in a way that’s believably sincere, if you can, and I’ll be satisfied. The current drone policy has been set by the Obama administration. I believe I am correct in holding him personally responsible for the way drones have been used while he has been commander in chief. > [@](#): > > - > - BTW, I’m more-or-less pro-drone myself. As is anyone who has any news source other than anti-Illuminati, Alabama economics, or Goldbug YouTubes. _ **Drones simply give a better guilty-to-innocent casualty ratio** _ than alternatives. Really? Drones kill more people than no drones? These alternatives you speak of would be politically impossible to implement in countries like Pakistan and Yemen, so drones kill innocents where otherwise innocents would be spared. I am obviously not suggesting we replace the drones with conventional weapons. Also your claim that conspiracy theorists, Austrian economists, and gold standard advocates are the only people against the murder of innocents by drone is pure demagoguery. You should be ashamed of yourself. Not to mention your fellow Obamaphile has provided evidence that Maddowites are anti-drone, so it is interesting that nobody has rebuffed this claim. (Actually it isn’t. Statists are seldom rebuffed by fellow statists when they are engaged with a non-statist and make foolish statements on this forum) > [@septimus](#): > > Here’s a little factoid they don’t mention in the **anti-Illuminati** :mad: _ **hyper** _inflation Youtubes: > > If you made the mistake of selling 100 ounces of genuine gold in, say, 1900 at the pre-Roosevelt price of $20.67 dollars per ounce and kept the proceeds invested in crypto-fascist 10-year U.S. [del]Illuminati[/del] Treasury bonds, how many ounces of gold would you be able to buy at today’s prices from the bond proceeds? > > 312 ounces This is a bizarre post. The price of gold right now is kept artificially high by money printing, just as the price of stocks, housing, and other assets. What specific claim of mine are you trying to refute? > [@septimus](#): > > Do you have a reputable cite for this? Need we first agree that “thousands” means 2000 or more? And that Obama, even though he may be the precocious Emperor Jesus, isn’t responsible for drones before 2009? > > Didn’t think so. Lindsey Graham says 4700 have been killed. I’m not actually allowed to know more details about this number. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If people want to arrange to use private currency-equivalents among themselves to pay bills other than tax bills, nothing is stopping them. But such things never seem to catch on when tried – [Bitcoins](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bitcoin), f’rinstance. There’s also such thing as scrip, but it never circulates outside a micromarket. Gold would likely become the common money in a free market. That isn’t to say that I’m wrong. Gold is subject to 28% capital gains tax. It isn’t allowed to compete with the dollar. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/111 "2013-11-07T18:08:04Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I didn’t bring up Somalia. One of the robots did that. You will not insult other posters like this while you’re posting in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/112 "2013-11-07T19:00:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > This is a bizarre post. The price of gold right now is kept artificially high by money printing, just as the price of stocks, housing, and other assets. What specific claim of mine are you trying to refute? How about minerals, foodstuffs, etc.? Is their price kept artificially high? Do you grasp that prices can always be thought of as ratios? What my post showed was that _ **The price or value of U.S. T-bonds has outperformed the price of gold** _. Are you saying that if gold price were not “artificially high” the T-bonds would have outperformed _even more_? I’d be happy to peruse a brief and intelligible summary of your views, if you really need to know which specific claims are wrong. But please don’t ask me to wade through tripe like “Counterfeiting is evidently but another name for inflation.” On another matter, would you deign to comment on the morality Paul’s plagiarism _in isolation_ without comparing it to the pogroms and baby-killing of Paul’s political opponents? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/113 "2013-11-07T19:24:32Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Plus, who puts a three page block quote in a popular politics books? Many writers, IME. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/114 "2013-11-07T19:25:56Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I can’t believe how badly he’s handling this. Usually with guys like this, I don’t believe they are as dumb as they come off; I just assume they are doing some combination of dumbing down and pandering to their target audience. > > But Paul is speaking in Washington, to national news broadcasts, not some holler in Kentucky. And he genuinely appears to not know what plagiarism is. And he’s a **doctor,** yet. This wasn’t covered in med school? This wasn’t covered in **pre** -med?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/115 "2013-11-07T19:28:53Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Gold would likely become the common money in a free market. Bad idea for [a lot of reasons](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gold_standard_(economics)#Problems_with_returning_to_a_gold_standard). I suspect you only want a gold standard because you have the illusion that it would somehow place the value of money beyond governmental manipulation, which is a thing neither desirable nor possible. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/116 "2013-11-07T20:04:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And he’s a **doctor,** yet. This wasn’t covered in med school? This wasn’t covered in **pre** -med?! Sadly, I would say that it’s possible to get through med school and an ophthalmology residency (in which he almost certainly published research) without giving any serious thought to what constitutes plagiarism. Medical education does not necessarily encourage intellectual curiosity. That being said, I don’t think Paul cares whether what he’s saying has any relationship with reality or not; it’s classic bullshit, [per the Harry Frankfurt definition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit). ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/117 "2013-11-07T20:08:12Z")
I think it is possible for Asteroid mining to provide nearly unlimited cheap minerals within our lifetime, which will be tragic for Glenn Beck listeners. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/118 "2013-11-07T20:51:03Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I think it is possible for Asteroid mining to provide nearly unlimited cheap minerals within our lifetime, which will be tragic for Glenn Beck listeners. Because that includes gold? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/119 "2013-11-07T20:51:18Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I didn’t bring up Somalia. One of the robots did that. > [@Marley23](#): > > You will not insult other posters like this while you’re posting in this forum. Is “robot” an insult now? Thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621/120 "2013-11-07T20:52:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Is “robot” an insult now? Thanks a lot. No, you mean “Domo arigato!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-apparently-really-likes-wikipedia/672621.md?page=7)