# Rand Paul Challenges Obama's NDAA Military Detention of US Citizens without Trial **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214 "2015-06-10T23:03:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/1 "2015-06-10T23:03:40Z")
Rand Paul defends a US citizens’ right to trial by jury when accused of any crime, the right that Obama personally insisted you should not have. Democratic Sen. Carl Levin revealing that indefinite military detention law should include US citizens: [(D) Carl Levin on NDAA 'Obama Admin insisted on the contents' - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DNDHbT44cY) ``` Quote: **[Rand Paul's Petition for his New Amendment...](http://randpaul.com/f/stop-indefinite-detention?sr=rhf061015c)** ``` There is only one way to describe detaining a U.S. citizen indefinitely and denying trial by jury: Un-American. If the federal government can arrest you, throw you in prison for years, and strip away your due process rights to prove your innocence, our Republic is sliding into dangerous territory. That’s why I’m introducing – along with Senator Mike Lee and others - the Due Process Guarantee to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). This amendment blocks indefinite detention of American citizens without being charged and denying them a jury trial unless there is a vote in Congress. Whereas: The fight over the indefinite detention of American citizens in the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) strikes at the very heart of our fragile Republic; and Whereas: It effectively GUTS the 6th Amendment of the Constitution. It places the freedom of every American citizen at the mercy of the federal government; and Whereas: After the NSA’s spying scandals and the IRS targeting of conservative political organizations, Americans aren’t buying the argument any longer that our government won’t abuse its powers; and Whereas: The federal government shouldn’t have the power to lock American citizens up and throw away the key – all without trial; Therefore: I urge you to take action to support Senator Paul’s amendment to stop the indefinite detention of Americans and restore the 6th Amendment. [WEBPAGE HERE](http://randpaul.com/f/stop-indefinite-detention?sr=rhf061015c) Report: Rand Paul single-handedly tries to stop NDAA [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcBdtSE-M3g) Sen. Rand Paul Objects To Indefinite Detention Language In NDAA - 12/21/12 [![](http://i.pinimg.com/736x/56/d6/3c/56d63cecfda99181c4c6f20a76617588.jpg) ](http://i.pinimg.com/736x/56/d6/3c/56d63cecfda99181c4c6f20a76617588.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/2 "2015-06-10T23:33:35Z")
Wasn’t the NDAA passed by a Republican majority? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/3 "2015-06-11T00:03:20Z")
Reported as Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, garnished with truffle pâté, brandy and a fried egg on top. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/4 "2015-06-11T00:03:54Z")
See, that’s the damn thing about these Libertarians: There’s always, like 1 thing, that they are correct about. (Me personally, I don’t doubt for a second, however, that Rand Paul is actually a Republican.) ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/5 "2015-06-11T00:07:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Wasn’t the NDAA passed by a Republican majority? Does it matter? I am very depressed that it’s a loony, rather than the Democrats, who is trying to finally put limits on Presidential authority since 9/11. The loud voices that so decried Bush’s actions (including Mr. President) became silent, and all of them should be embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/6 "2015-06-11T00:26:20Z")
I agree with Hamlet. As someone who voted for Obama twice, the man is a disappointment in this area. I hate it when I agree with Rand Paul and it has been happening too often. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/7 "2015-06-11T00:41:23Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Does it matter? > > I am very depressed that it’s a loony, rather than the Democrats, who is trying to finally put limits on Presidential authority since 9/11. The loud voices that so decried Bush’s actions (including Mr. President) became silent, and all of them should be embarrassed. Amen to every word in that post. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/8 "2015-06-11T00:41:40Z")
Agreed. This has been an outrageous government overreach, and I’m glad someone is finally making an issue of it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/9 "2015-06-11T00:50:53Z")
\*\*Reported as spam. \*\* If you google the thread title, you can see the exact same OP on at least one other MB. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/10 "2015-06-11T02:55:53Z")
Paul’s right on this issue and has my full support for whatever that’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/11 "2015-06-11T03:37:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > \*\*Reported as spam. \*\* > > If you google the thread title, you can see the exact same OP on at least one other MB. Yeah - but not a bad lead in to the topic. I love that Rand Paul is doing this, and I hope he can get some Democrats and a couple of Republicans to join him. This is an important issue that should be dealt with. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/12 "2015-06-11T04:00:20Z")
> [@munkles](#): > > There is only one way to describe detaining a U.S. citizen indefinitely and denying trial by jury: Un-American. > > If the federal government can arrest you, throw you in prison for years, and strip away your due process rights to prove your innocence, our Republic is sliding into dangerous territory. > > That’s why I’m introducing – along with Senator Mike Lee and others - the Due Process Guarantee to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). > > This amendment blocks indefinite detention of American citizens without being charged and denying them a jury trial unless there is a vote in Congress. Wow, he’s really sticking up for the little guy. The federal government can’t arrest a private citizen and hold him without trial, only Congress should get to do that! Is this a matter of principle, or is he just trying to take a power away from the Executive while keeping it for himself? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/13 "2015-06-11T04:04:03Z")
If Congress has to vote on holding a citizen without trial, that makes it much less likely that the whole thing can be done in secret and without airing of the issues and the evidence. Compare that to the executive branch, who can do it completely in the dark, on top of which they can plausibly deny everything later and who can prove otherwise? Count me among those who are behind Senator Paul on this issue at least. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/14 "2015-06-11T04:28:35Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > If Congress has to vote on holding a citizen without trial, that makes it much less likely that the whole thing can be done in secret and without airing of the issues and the evidence. Compare that to the executive branch, who can do it completely in the dark, on top of which they can plausibly deny everything later and who can prove otherwise. What’s to prevent the Congressional majority caucus from meeting in secret, voting to detain someone with no debate or reasons given, and refusing to answer questions about it? If Rand Paul thinks this is such an overreach of the government’s authority, so unconscionable, then Congress shouldn’t have the right to do it either. When he’s willing to give up some of his own power, then I’ll believe he’s sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/15 "2015-06-11T04:31:17Z")
I think that removing the power to detain people without trial from the executive branch would virtually eliminate the problem. The reality is that only the executive branch has the real world capability of doing this. If you transfer this power to Congress, they might hold the power in theory but would lack the means of using it. So if Congress had the sole legal authority to authorize detention and the President and the executive branch had the sole ability to carry out detentions, they would hopefully act as a check on each other and no detentions would occur. At the very least, it’s better than the executive branch holding both the authority and the power to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Willcross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Willcross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willcross)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/16 "2015-06-11T04:51:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Wow, he’s really sticking up for the little guy. The federal government can’t arrest a private citizen and hold him without trial, only Congress should get to do that! > > Is this a matter of principle, or is he just trying to take a power away from the Executive while keeping it for himself? Well he himself hopes to become the executive in 2016 so I don’t think it’s for selfish reasons. I’m a democrat but I think Paul is the most palatable out of the GOP canidates. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/17 "2015-06-11T04:55:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think that removing the power to detain people without trial from the executive branch would virtually eliminate the problem. The reality is that only the executive branch has the real world capability of doing this. If you transfer this power to Congress, they might hold the power in theory but would lack the means of using it. Well, then there’s no reason to have that provision in the bill (assuming the OP is accurate), is there? Imagine how much stronger a statement it would make about government abuse of power if it prohibited this kind of detention in all cases, full stop. Again, assuming the OP is accurate, Rand Paul is essentially saying “indefinite detention without trial is wrong, an example of the evils of government, and only my branch of the government can do it responsibly”. That’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/18 "2015-06-11T05:24:14Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Well, then there’s no reason to have that provision in the bill (assuming the OP is accurate), is there? Imagine how much stronger a statement it would make about government abuse of power if it prohibited this kind of detention in all cases, full stop. > > Again, assuming the OP is accurate, Rand Paul is essentially saying “indefinite detention without trial is wrong, an example of the evils of government, and only my branch of the government can do it responsibly”. That’s bullshit. Politics is the art of the possible. Maybe Paul knew he couldn’t convince a majority to abolish the law outright but would be able to convince them to limit it this way. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/19 "2015-06-11T05:30:36Z")
Oh, please. Keep Gitmo, open 7 more and continue water boarding for anyone who’s a remote suspect. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214/20 "2015-06-11T05:50:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Politics is the art of the possible. Maybe Paul knew he couldn’t convince a majority to abolish the law outright but would be able to convince them to limit it this way. That’s possible. It’s still a burning sack of crap, we just don’t know whose porch it’s on. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-paul-challenges-obamas-ndaa-military-detention-of-us-citizens-without-trial/722214.md?page=2)