# Rand Paul's interview on Rachel Maddow - A real Libertarian meets the real world **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157 "2010-05-20T18:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/201 "2010-05-21T18:52:31Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > I didn’t say I didn’t care. You, and everybody else, are missing the point. > > Do you, or do you not, travel to those places and eat? If so, why? If not, why not? Nope, never spent any time in the third world. I’ve never had a business reason to travel there, and vacationing in exotic, remote locales is a luxury I can’t afford. I’d rather throw some gear in the back of the station wagon and go camping. What’s your point? That refrigeration and vermin control has no effect on food safety? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/202 "2010-05-21T18:56:18Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > What in blazes do my putative travel choices regarding third world countries have to do with the question of the supremacy of property rights over human rights? > > The fact that I can be poisoned in a foreign eatery only reinforces my pleasure at my own country’s regulation of the food industry. > > Whether I have sufficient reason to visit those places to over-ride my concerns for the safety of my diet while there is not germane to the discussion. You are missing his point. Countries that have laxer regulations are more free, and the people that live there are healthier, wealthier, and wiser. For example, regulation would severely cut into the thriving pirate industry in Somalia. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/203 "2010-05-21T18:57:25Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > I didn’t say I didn’t care. You, and everybody else, are missing the point. Then actually make a point, so we can all stop missing it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/204 "2010-05-21T19:03:28Z")
Had a beef enchilada in Hermosillo once. Pretty sure about the enchilada part, the “beef” is subject to some doubt. Regretted it for three days. Worked in a slaughterhouse once, and I won’t tell you the shit I saw, because you wouldn’t believe me, and I could hardly blame you. But you know how high school kids sometimes call their school lunches “mystery meat”? More truth than poetry in that. 'Nuf sed. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/205 "2010-05-21T19:03:32Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > You are missing his point. Countries that have laxer regulations are more free, and the people that live there are healthier, wealthier, and wiser. For example, regulation would severely cut into the thriving pirate industry in Somalia. Ah, I see. So those Somalies, not the pirates but simple citizens, whose pictures I’ve seen in the media-- these people are benefiting from the boon of unrestricted freedom, yes? Their country is practically a Libertarian utopia, isn’t it? Indeed, healthier, wealthier and certainly much wiser-- that’s exactly the way I would have described them. Point taken. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/206 "2010-05-21T19:05:33Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > I didn’t say I didn’t care. You, and everybody else, are missing the point. > > Do you, or do you not, travel to those places and eat? If so, why? If not, why not? **Idaho** , would you like to contract foodborne illness at home in the United States, throughout your life, at the same per-meal rate that you did in Mexico? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/207 "2010-05-21T19:05:53Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Do you, or do you not, travel to those places and eat? If so, why? If not, why not? I have been to several dozen developing countries on four continents. I eat when I am in these countries. However, I follow the guidelines on what foods are safe to be eaten when there are questions about the cleanliness of food. For example, I will very rarely drink something with ice cubes in it, I will not eat strawberries which are often fertilized with human waste, I tend to avoid ice cream from non-major manufacturers which may be made with unpasteurized milk, avoid ground beef which is a breeding ground for e coli, and so on. I am not free to enjoy any food I want. The amazing thing is that in the US, I need not worry about drinking iced tea, eating strawberries, enjoying a cheeseburger, or having an ice cream cone from a street vendor. I am free to eat just about anything. Do you really think the United States would be better if we got rid of regulations requiring clean water and sanitary food preparation facilities, so that we lost the freedom to confidently choose which foods we wanted to eat with minimal fear of food borne diseases? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/208 "2010-05-21T19:12:04Z")
Oh, but surely an independent standards agency would spring up to certify food vendors as being sanitary, relieving consumers from having to inspect the kitchens themselves! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/209 "2010-05-21T19:17:00Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > I absolutely have gotten those things in the past. > > Did you? If so, why did you go there and incur that risk? Was it worth it? Are you going back again? Were those things worth the, well, morally superior situation of not having government oppression guarantee clean water and food instead? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/210 "2010-05-21T19:31:23Z")
In Libertopia, it is good that infants die of salmonella and e. coli. They give their lives so that the rest of us can judge which food manufacturers are unsafe. These selfless little patriots are a necessary cog in the engine of Freedom. Their parents must be so proud. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/211 "2010-05-21T19:32:23Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I’m beginning to think that, despite his name, Rand is not a very good libertarian. He’s not actually named after Ayn Rand. His name is Randall Howard Paul. As a kid, he was known as “Randy”, It was his wife who gave him the nickname Rand. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/212 "2010-05-21T19:44:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I disagree here. The purpose of a lunch counter is to make money, and the owner allows people to come into his private property in order to give him that money in exchange for goods (i.e. lunch). One actually serving the public would a be a soup kitchen that gave away the food for free, or at least at cost. > > That said, I can see an argument for not allowing discrimination, but it has to do with the fact that the only reason you can make money in the first place is because the government has police officers to protect you, built roads to allow customers to get to your shop, gave you phonelines to get supplies, etc. Since the government is doing that for all people, it has a vested interest in making sure that those that receive its services distribute that service amongst everyone (as it is society that let the government provide those services in the first place.) > > The main reason for allowing discrimination at home is it really doesn’t matter. Every person has a home of some sort, and gets all the protections from the government. There is no reason to force someone to let someone they don’t like into their house, and would only create enmity. (That’s also the reason for only forcing a minimum number of protected classes. For example, would protecting the guy who acts like an asshole help? No, as he’s more likely to make them need to use those police services.) > > The only definition that allows a home to be private but a private business public is one that says that no one has a reason to enter a private residence, but often do a public business. The owner of a lunch counter has to get permission to sell to/serve the public. why people on the internet consistently quibble over meanings of words and definitions is an interesting phenomena. It’s like meeting a person who in real life whowhen you tell them ‘the sky is blue’ – will go on to argue with you that that isn’t exactly true. 😛 A lunch counter opens for business in order to make money by – serving the public. You see? The sky is blue. Lots of libertarians on the web who have this weird quaint ideas about private property. Ideas left behind in the 18th century. It’s one area where times and definitions have changed and ideologues have not failed to keep up, they have retreated into the past. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/213 "2010-05-21T19:45:38Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Sad? You’ve never heard of signs in restaurants that read “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”? > > OJ Simpson was refused service at a Jeffy Ruby-owned steakhouse here in Cincinnati not too long ago and was asked to leave. Ruby, the owner, believes he’s a murdering piece of shit and didn’t want him eating at his restaurant. OJ is also black. Ruby was within his rights as a private owner of a business to do what he did. > > [http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Jeff-Ruby-Denies-OJ-Simpson-Service/FGknJeRdXUmh0txZfv9XgA.cspx](http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Jeff-Ruby-Denies-OJ-Simpson-Service/FGknJeRdXUmh0txZfv9XgA.cspx) Put up a sign that says “we refuse to serve blacks” and them we’ll have this discussion. Ruby did not refuse service based on OJ’s color. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/214 "2010-05-21T19:49:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Before we go further, let me just say that although I disagree with you on this, I’m not going to say you are objectively wrong. Your argument makes sense, based on the assumptions you are making. > > I make different assumptions, namely that private property is the same-- be it a house or a lunch counter. Rand Paul thinks so, too. > > Neither of those two views is radical or outrageous. The business is private, the property is open to the public. A business can rent property. the property is not the business in this case. One can have a business that is closed to the public – like a factory. There are differences with distinctions. It is not my assumptions that are false in your suppositions, it is my definitions. People can argue forever over things and never come to agreements if when they do not agree on what exactly it is they are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/215 "2010-05-21T19:52:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I can’t believe that we’re even having this discussion in the 21st century. This was settled long ago. You can’t refuse service to anyone based on race, whether you’re selling groceries, restaurant services, funeral services, or real estate. If a core tenet of libertarianism is that such discrimination is acceptable, then libertarians are disgusting pigs. Perhaps a positive to come out of Rand Paul’s idiocy is that the libertarian philosophy will be exposed for what it really is. A little harsh, but your basic points sound. I would not say libertarians are pigs, disgusting in some cases, maybe. But as they would say in their own defense, it is a judgment call. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/216 "2010-05-21T19:56:50Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think anyone in the thread on either side is saying that discrimination based on race is acceptable. > … If you believe this then there is something wrong here.\*\* Arguing\*\* that a lunch counter has **‘the right’** to discriminate and then arguing that a right argued for is not acceptable is simply ridiculous. How many other rights do you find unacceptable? Use the speech argument if you want, just explain why? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/217 "2010-05-21T19:58:22Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Oh, but surely an independent standards agency would spring up to certify food vendors as being sanitary, relieving consumers from having to inspect the kitchens themselves! I am sure it would every bit as good as the private firms that rated bonds. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/218 "2010-05-21T20:01:33Z")
How long will Libertarians and conservative tea partiers continue to have an alliance once the conservatives realize they want to legalize drugs and prostitution, allow pornography on TV, and support gay marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/219 "2010-05-21T20:04:52Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He’s not actually named after Ayn Rand. His name is Randall Howard Paul. As a kid, he was known as “Randy”, It was his wife who gave him the nickname Rand. And they are both huge fans of Ayn Rand and RP has claimed it never occurred to them that the coincidence would be noticed. I have to wonder of Ron named Randall after Rand. The family is, to put it mildly, odd. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157/220 "2010-05-21T20:09:06Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > What in blazes do my putative travel choices regarding third world countries have to do with the question of the supremacy of property rights over human rights? > > The fact that I can be poisoned in a foreign eatery only reinforces my pleasure at my own country’s regulation of the food industry. > > Whether I have sufficient reason to visit those places to over-ride my concerns for the safety of my diet while there is not germane to the discussion. I would argue it is _exactly_ germane to the discussion. I would argue it is the whole, entire, frickin’ point. You just said it, without even realizing it, in your last sentence. Do you even realize what you said? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rand-pauls-interview-on-rachel-maddow-a-real-libertarian-meets-the-real-world/540157.md?page=12)