# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/181 "2010-03-20T06:46:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Meeko** :Because clearly, it’s impossible that anyone would ever agree with anything anyone else ever said without having some special knowledge. I think one thing you need to learn in these games, **Meeko** , is to be able to look at the game from a generic point of view. From your knowledge that the three of you were all Masons, that might have stood out, but from anyone else’s point of view, it was completely unremarkable. Heck, I didn’t even notice it, and I did know who you all were. > > Moving on, quoth **Wanderers** :Clearly, somebody made a typo, here. But why assume it was NAF? It seems just as likely to me that it was sachertorte when he wrote the PM in the first place. And the fact that it’s misspelled the same way both times looks like NAF was copying and pasting from _somewhere_; why not from the actual PM? > > **Vote One and Only Wanderers** for jumping to unjustified conclusions. Whilst we’re on it - any reason you haven’t quoted yours? You just stated it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/182 "2010-03-20T06:59:33Z")
If we were doing full role claims, I would have quoted. But we’re just doing names. I prefer to leave as much ambiguity as possible, at this time at least, as to whether or not I am a power role. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/183 "2010-03-20T08:19:02Z")
Checking in. > [@](#): > > You are Gustave Eiffel (Architect). You win with the Town. > [Gustave Eiffel - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Eiffel) ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/184 "2010-03-20T12:26:07Z")
For the record, deciding on and actually proceeding with a name claim on Friday night, and the first day of the first Day? I think I’m against that. [QUOTE=peeker] how’s life hoosier? [/QUOTE] **peeker**! It keeps going; I’ll tell you how \*well \*after UK/Wake Forest. > [@Chronos](#): > > Clearly, somebody made a typo, here. But why assume it was NAF? It seems just as likely to me that it was sachertorte when he wrote the PM in the first place. And the fact that it’s misspelled the same way both times looks like NAF was copying and pasting from somewhere; why not from the actual PM? > > Vote One and Only Wanderers for jumping to unjustified conclusions. > [@One And Only Wanderers](#): > > Whilst we’re on it - any reason you haven’t quoted yours? You just stated it. Speaking of unjustified… Seems obvious enough to me that there’s _very good_ reason not to go around pushing everyone for a complete C&P of his or her role, but it seems to be the case that I’m in the minority there. Hell, I think the better question is: why have so many people apparently done full role claims? Granted, I’m not much steeped in Mafia theory or anything, but I imagine there must be some reason that everyone’s role PMs aren’t public information. There was a brief discussion of a name claim – a _name_ claim – and somehow we’re already at the point where it’s worthy of further investigation when a player actually claims his name but no more? That seems wildly shortsighted to me. I don’t see what good it does the town to push **Chronos** on that particular point, especially since it ain’t hard to fabricate the vanilla role that’s already been provided. I can, however, see the anti-town motivation behind sniffing it out. **Vote One and Only Wanderers** for what looks like fishing. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/185 "2010-03-20T12:45:09Z")
Morning folks. Or should that be afternoon? I think it’s worthwhile to remind everyone not to carry grudges from the last game. Just because **some** one (no names, no pack drill) was scummy scum in the last game, doesn’t mean that they’re scum this game. Don’t go pursuing them for revenge in wiping the floor with you last game. That will hurt your side. Don’t do it. More later. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/186 "2010-03-20T14:21:52Z")
everyone else had quoted. ppl not doing so already stand out without me saying anything. Fishing? If I were scum I would know for sure Chronos’ alignment and if he is tpown he would already be noted. I had no need to say anything in thread. Apart from… I’m not scum, i’m trying to find scum. Surely you’re not expecting a strong case on anyone this early in the game, and yet we still have to play. So I look for any deviations i can. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/187 "2010-03-20T14:28:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Meeko** :Because clearly, it’s impossible that anyone would ever agree with anything anyone else ever said without having some special knowledge. I think one thing you need to learn in these games, **Meeko** , is to be able to look at the game from a generic point of view. From your knowledge that the three of you were all Masons, that might have stood out, but from anyone else’s point of view, it was completely unremarkable. Heck, I didn’t even notice it, and I did know who you all were. > > Snipped 1.I’m **NOT** saying that it is “impossible that anyone would ever agree with anything…” I am just looking at the fact that a player was named, by name. 1b.WIFOM on if Freudian would do this again, on purpose. Then again, if it is a “bad habit” we all know how hard those die. 2.Town needs to look at the game from a “Town” point of view. If we stop doing that, we begin to lose the game. Multiple players guilty of this in Pond, methinks. 2b. If everyone were to embrace a “generic” point of view, town would not mobilize [for lack of a better word.], – And, scum passes very easily as “Generic”, not so much as “Town”. ““Town”” should not knowingly reduce itself to a lowest common denominator. Town most often ends up doing it on their own, anyway. 3.In one sense, being the Mod for a game means you can speak for all of the players. But in another sense, you can’t. If you could read my mind, or any other player’s mind for that matter, I would stop playing Mafia right now. No point in playing. 3b.Speaking of Mods, I’m gonna take a play from Sach’s playbook. I Reject the premise that you speak for everyone else. As far as their, and your, capacity as player in this, or from your game, you have no better read on them than I do. You can’t throw out “unremarkable” based on one opinion. 4.I’m not sure if it more my problem, or more your problem, that, that bread-loaf went unnoticed. 4b.I wonder if scum can obtain Town Cred by dismissing other players. Is there a infinite amount of Town cred, or does the finite amount just change possession multiple times? [That is to say, I wonder if there is not a Scum Freudian, and a Scum Chronos, one moving in to protect the other. All of scum’s organization so far this game has to be out in the open.] * * * Believe it or not, my family thinks and talks a lot like I do. To that end, we have our own vocabulary. We use the term “New Paragraph” (Yes, we verbally say it out loud) in our conversations to signal that we just got sidetracked on something, and we are taking you along, kicking and screaming. New Paragraph :: I’m perfectly ambiguous here. While I enjoy this tit for tat, it feels a bit like shaking dry [as a dog would do] after a cold shower. I mean, you guys got your reasons, I somehow came out incredibly organized. But, I feel like I’m a tad heavy handed. But, I don’t want that to be a negative on me. \*\*I just wonder if this is how Mafia is played. \*\*-- Takes more work than I was giving it. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/188 "2010-03-20T14:30:51Z")
Where are we with the Name Claim? 1.Assume we have all the claims. What do we do with that information, at that point? 2.Still not clear as to why we included alignment. I wonder if doing that affords scum too much space. 1. I guess my default play of claiming late on Day 1 is gonna be shot this time around. Let’s hope I stay coherent enough to get past it. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/189 "2010-03-20T14:35:00Z")
That didn’t take as long as I feared it might. I’m not convinced of the benefits of a nameclaim. This is called “Random Mafia” and I expect that the names and roles are completely independent. In short, the only thing a name claim can tell us is what names people have. However, I also can’t see a reason to hold back, since if I’m right that name and roles are independent, any role might be paired with any name. So, for example, there is no reason to assume that the hypothetical John Wayne would be the hypothetical vig. John Wayne might _easily_ be the Doc. There would (assuming there is one John Wayne and one Doc) be a 5% chance of that. (If rolenames _did_ match roles, then the hypothetical John Wayne might as easily be a town Tough Guy – capable of surviving a Nightkill.) That being said, although I would have preferred a bit more discussion, I can’t see any reason not to reveal my name. [QUOTE=sachertorte] You are Tim Horton (Canadian). You win with the Town. > **[Tim Horton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Horton)** > > Miles Gilbert "Tim" Horton (January 12, 1930 – February 21, 1974) was a Canadian professional ice hockey defenceman who played 24 seasons in the National Hockey League (NHL). He spent the majority of his career playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs, later playing with the New York Rangers, Pittsburgh Penguins, and Buffalo Sabres. Horton was a four-time Stanley Cup Champion in 1962, 1963, 1964, and 1967 with the Maple Leafs. In 2017, Horton was named one of the 100 Greatest NHL Players in h A suc... [/quote] Jimmy, I haven’t yet seen anyone make a roleclaim, just a nameclaim. I do think, though, that differences in the method of claiming by individual players isn’t yet worth further investigation. The issue may become more relevant later. Back later. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/190 "2010-03-20T14:44:22Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and crud **z** are you really that obtuse? Joke votes happen BEFORE game start, peeks. Also, chill. **unvote peeker** > [@](#): > > You are Lysander (Lover). You are Fictional. You win with the Town. > [Lysander (A Midsummer Night's Dream) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_(Shakespeare)) ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/191 "2010-03-20T14:46:42Z")
So Mhaye is our drug dealer for this game. Good to know. What? Caffeine _ **is** _ a drug. I’ll take a double double. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/192 "2010-03-20T14:47:51Z")
I unvoted **Peeker** , but then I note he hasn’t unvoted \*\*Story \*\*yet. Care to explain why you’re getting mad at me for making a clearly anti-town play, that is so anti-town it got you killed Day One last game, when you haven’t rescinded it yet? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/193 "2010-03-20T14:50:39Z")
Interesting \*\*Zeriel \*\*. You are Lysander (Lover). **You are Fictional.** You win with the Town. 1. How does “Fictional” click in, into the rest of the game? 1b. It would be interesting if Power Roles had certain “handles” that only work on given keywords of other roles. 1c.Then again, that would be a tad too much Star Wars CCG than Mafia. I still perfer MAGIC, but keywords are rare in M:TG, and work differently. 1. Also, what about “Lover”? That is, as far as game set up, is **Z** linked to anyone else? Or is it simply mundane? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/194 "2010-03-20T15:09:29Z")
I’m trying to keep up and process the game. Here is my extremely quickly put together list of who claimed what and in what order it all went down. Please check this and correct me if I’m wrong. I’m just trying to get a collected list out. I think this is right: 1. Specialed - Guy de Maupassant 2. Freudian – Patroclus 3. Tom Scud – Bugsy Berkley 4. Oredigger – George Washington 5. NAF – Joseph Smith 6. Red Skeezix – Ogden Nash 7. Texcat- Benadict Arnold 8. Chronos – Jesse Jackson 9. Mahaloth – Samuel Johnson 10. Drain – Eva Peron 11. Meeko – Joan Miro 12. Oneandonly – Fumingxia 13. Guiri- Gustave Eiffel 14. MHaye – Tim Hornton 15. Zeriel – Lysander Is this right so far? I typed it out instead of copying everyone’s claim post, so spelling may be off. I had to go back and adjust order as I realized posts slipped past me. Correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/195 "2010-03-20T15:09:48Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > everyone else had quoted. A decision I don’t think was for the best, but hardly a good reason to exacerbate the situation. > [@](#): > > ppl not doing so already stand out without me saying anything. Fishing? If I were scum I would know for sure Chronos’ alignment and if he is tpown he would already be noted. I had no need to say anything in thread. Yes, people do stand out if they don’t post a full PM, which is why I don’t like it, would prefer not to do so myself, and hope nobody else does, but that standing out is a symptom of (what is in my opinion) the problem, not a good reason to make an even bigger deal out of it. And obviously you didn’t need to post anything either way, but you did, and having done so the question is why you might have done that. It’s easy for me to believe that on day one the motivation to jump at **Chronos** ’ relative pithiness could come from a scum sensing that he can sniff out role information. Like you say, it’s far from a smoking gun but hey, day one. [QUOTE=MHaye] Jimmy, I haven’t yet seen anyone make a roleclaim, just a nameclaim. I do think, though, that differences in the method of claiming by individual players isn’t yet worth further investigation. The issue may become more relevant later. [/QUOTE] No, of course nobody has claimed a role explicitly, but it seems to me that by putting quote tags around a message that matches exactly the vanilla PM that was posted by **sachertorte** , one makes a kind of implicit statement about who they are. Maybe not necessarily, I guess, but when coupled with **Wanderers’** “Why didn’t you do that” it really quickly became an unnecessarily fraught with peril way to go about saying what our names are, if that’s all we’re interested in exchanging. Maybe it’s just me; I’ve never played a game that opened with a claim like this, so maybe I’m reading too much into quoting vs. just claiming. I suppose it won’t do me much good to go on about it without coughing up my name, though, so: **Alexander Graham Bell (Inventor).** Interesting that we now have a fictional lover and a fictional stealer of his friend’s armor to go get killed in. No third parties, so fictional must mean something else, but I can’t imagine what. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/196 "2010-03-20T15:12:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If we were doing full role claims, I would have quoted. But we’re just doing names. I prefer to leave as much ambiguity as possible, at this time at least, as to whether or not I am a power role. huh? I’m not sure I get it. Is there some reason you are drawing attention to yourself in this way, Chronos? Are you saying that you think everyone who has quoted from their pm is vanilla? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/197 "2010-03-20T15:36:06Z")
So, that is: 1. Jimmy - Alexander Graham Bell Who does this leave unclaimed? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/198 "2010-03-20T15:42:58Z")
I have yet to claim. > [@](#): > > You are Petr Cech (Goalkeeper). You win with the Town. > [Petr Čech - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_%C4%8Cech) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/199 "2010-03-20T15:44:04Z")
Peeker also claimed Wicked Witch of the West, presumably also fictional. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/200 "2010-03-20T15:45:06Z")
I think that leaves story and red; story has said he won’t be playing much if at all on weekends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=11)