# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/241 "2010-03-21T07:40:40Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Joseph is spelled wrong in both your attempts to claim Well spotted. **NAF** _typed out_ the role claim instead of just copying and pasting it? **vote NAF1138** ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/242 "2010-03-21T07:41:49Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I would have liked to have waited until at least one night had passed. I don’t know what information it would have brought. It was spelled out clearly what, at least, the _dangers_ of leaving it one night would have brought. **fos Meeko** , for making an arguably -EV play. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/243 "2010-03-21T09:31:00Z")
And now that I’ve read the thread a little more thoroughly, I see that somebody pointed out that **Meeko** ’s role is also misspelled. Not sure what to make of it. But for now… **unvote NAF1138** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/244 "2010-03-21T13:12:28Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > When come back, bring playing the game. Hint: You’re not. Snipped, obviously. Wow. I knew this joked existed, heard rumors about it. It’s hard to pick it out of that forest though. nearly almost wooshed me. For some reason, I want Pie now. > [@Chronos](#): > > By the way, to those doubting the name claim, it’s already given us some useful information: > We know that **NAF1138** did not falsify his claim, since he included the bit about his role listing religion before the sample PM was sent out. > Assuming that **Zeriel** is Town, we know that **Freudian** did not falsify her claim, since she was the first to claim a fictional name, and Zeriel’s later claim followed the same format. > We know that **TexCat** is either Town or extremely ballsy Scum, since she was the first to claim an “evil” name. > > Snipped FWIW, I offered up I was an Artist, before I name claimed. > [@Chronos](#): > > If all he had done were pointing it out, sure, no problem. It’s data, and conceivably useful somehow. But a Scum tell it’s not, and I don’t like people voting based on a null tell. In fact, given that both **Meeko** and **NAF** had misspellings, it’s actually a slight (though only slight) Town tell for both of them, since it’s the simpler hypothesis to assume that one person has bad spelling, rather than two (i.e., that both of their quoted PMs were written by the same person, i.e., that they’re both genuine). And I _really_ don’t like people voting based on something that’s a Town tell, however slight. **THIS.** I mean I think it was a weak vote to begin with, rushed, to cook up a vote on someone that I still believe will be power role town. This wagon will not be boarded. > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Verifying the legitimacy of each person’s name claim shouldn’t be too hard, I mean, how many articles could there be on wikipedia? Heh. Click “Random Page” a few times, and be surprised. On Second Thought, thinking of Ed, DON’T click random page. > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > It was spelled out clearly what, at least, the _dangers_ of leaving it one night would have brought. > > fos Meeko, for making an arguably -EV play. **Amadeus, Amadeus, Don’t FOS me Amadeus. (Ama – Deus…Deus…Deus)** What is so fossy of asking [and withdrawing] a request to keep the ONLY information scum does not have, a secret, until we have more information? I’m still not sure what good the name claim did for us. I know it will lead to more claiming, further and farther on a select few. I can’t make heads or tails out of the claims. I am willing to bet that scum can. **We gave up secret information, to scum, for free.** Death would have given two names. I would be willing to bet we could have figured out everything we have so far, from that. [We would have a player with a unique name and classification information X. Someone else would have said “I am an X as well.” OR “I am not an X, I am a Y.” In short, Town has given information to Scum. We don’t know the full extent of that action. We did this before the first night. **I didn’t want to give scum information. I fail to see how that is scummy**. Don’t give me “Scum wouldn’t do that”. 1. The claim took place anyway. (And still is not what Town wanted, c.f. Peeker) 2. I withdrew my stance on it. 3. I added commentary on the entire “Joesph” and “Aritst” situation. 4. Scum wouldn’t step in to stop a claim. I can’t see any reason for scum to stick out their neck here. Yes scum wouldn’t do X is the flavor of the month for meta game discussion, but, this is fall of the log easy for scum. Free information, Don’t scare town off, and certainly don’t shoot yourself in the foot. If you mean to suggest that scum have not had time to co-ordinate, given a Day start, I suggest it doesn’t matter. 5.Scum know who each other are. 5b.They know the name and [occupation / race / job] of their role. 5d.It is a simple matter of deduction at that point, to find out the common thread. \*_5e.They already know more from the names than we do, simply by comparing notes, that were placed out in the open. \* 5f.This doesn’t happen if Scum suggest we don’t claim_ ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/245 "2010-03-21T15:23:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You’re unknown until proven otherwise, of course. But to the extent that one is always not-voting for more people than one is voting for, and that while the game continues there are more Town than Scum, the default assumption is Town. and we all have our own way of approaching this game. my default assumption is that the lot of you are all unknown and exist merely to either lynch or nk me. and by this i mean that i don’t put a lot of trust in what anything anyone says until there is some reason to. and this whole role/name distincition has me needing to re read already. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/246 "2010-03-21T15:47:24Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t want to give scum information. I fail to see how that is scummy. It is impossible to play this game without giving Scum information. Scum already have the most important information: What everyone’s alignment is. Town, however, has almost no information, and what information we have is fragmented among multiple people. In order for Town to win, Town members with information must share it with other Town members, and we have no way of doing that without sharing it with Scum as well. So, we end up sharing information with Scum, but since they already know the most important information, it doesn’t really hurt us much. > [@](#): > > FWIW, I offered up I was an Artist, before I name claimed. Yes, but after **sach** provided the sample name. That doesn’t mean any more than what anyone else has posted. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/247 "2010-03-21T16:12:29Z")
Holy… _crap_. I can’t believe the Town has discussed, agreed upon, and apparently executed a name claim, all in the space of one real-life weekend. I probably would have been weakly opposed, but as the cat is well out of the bag: I have a plan, but it is not likely to be cunning. > [@](#): > > You are Baldrick (Servant). You are Fictional. You win with the Town. > [Baldrick - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldrick) I’m not sure what we have gained so far, but what the hell, at least we don’t have to talk about it any more. I need to read the Day in more depth in order to comment on the rest of the game (I’ve been working on my mother-in-law’s _barbershop chorus show_ for the last thirty six hours, so that’ll give you an idea how _I’m_ doing right now. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/248 "2010-03-21T16:53:39Z")
Quoth **storyteller** : > [@](#): > > I probably would have been weakly opposed, but as the cat is well out of the bag: As I recall, you were one of the proponents for a name-claim in Lost, and it turned out to have been a very good idea. Why would you have been weakly opposed here? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/249 "2010-03-21T17:00:41Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > 5.Scum know who each other are. > 5b.They know the name and [occupation / race / job] of their role. > 5d.It is a simple matter of deduction at that point, to find out the common thread. > \*_5e.They already know more from the names than we do, simply by comparing notes, that were placed out in the open. \* > 5f.This doesn’t happen if Scum suggest we don’t claim_ I’m catching up so this may have been asked..but…was this in the rules? Do we know the Scum know each others names? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/250 "2010-03-21T17:02:17Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I’m not sure what we have gained so far, but what the hell, at least we don’t have to talk about it any more. And I knw I pushed this, but this was my point. I saw us discussing the issue for the entire Day and wasting a lot of time. The game is Random mafia for goodness sake. So we have some random information. we’ve gotten over it, now let’s move on. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/251 "2010-03-21T17:05:01Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I’m catching up so this may have been asked..but…was this in the rules? > > Do we know the Scum know each others names? For the record, I checked the rules (post 70 for future reference), it was not stated that the Scum would know anything about each other. Meeko, how do you know that the Scum know each others names? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/252 "2010-03-21T17:30:32Z")
Additionally, **Meeko** , you’ve mentioned that you think NAF is a power role. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/253 "2010-03-21T18:24:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **storyteller** :As I recall, you were one of the proponents for a name-claim in Lost, and it turned out to have been a very good idea. Why would you have been weakly opposed here? In _Lost_, we were dealing with established canon; the information gained stood at least a chance of being helpful, at least for organizational purposes. Here there are two differences: 1. There is evidently no canon. The information we’ve seen can’t be interpreted, that I can see (at least, not yet). Also, on a meta-level: 2. **sachertorte** has been intimately involved in designing all of the games I’ve moderated so far. In every case, one of his driving motivations is reducing the number of ways that a game can be exploited or broken. Creating a game where a name claim would have any effect at all would be so out-of-character for him as to be inconceivable. The idea that he’d have given the Scum names like Dirk Dastardly and Genghis Kahn? Yeah, no. Not from sach. So I’d have been weakly opposed, mostly because I’d have expected the discussion to take real-life days and result in a bunch of null tells that would occupy us for Days. That it worked out the way it did - barely 48 hours of discussion, and now it’s behind us - is actually a pretty good outcome, but I don’t think it’s going to affect the game much. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/254 "2010-03-21T18:36:55Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Holy… _crap_. I can’t believe the Town has discussed, agreed upon, and apparently executed a name claim, all in the space of one real-life weekend. Well, we skipped most of the first two steps. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/255 "2010-03-21T18:43:22Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Well, we skipped most of the first two steps. that did kind of strealine it a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/256 "2010-03-21T19:02:41Z")
Well, the claim is mostly over and I don’t think we gathered any useful information out of it. I agree with story that sach made the game strong enough so the name-claim can’t break it. Having said that, I see no harm in the final players claiming sometime on Monday or Tuesday, whenever they get a chance to check in. I’m glad to get it out of the way, actually. Better than dealing with it later in the day. side note: The name claim in Lost was wise due to an extremely incompetent moderator, who was a great fool and inexperienced. I assume he wouldn’t make this error if he lead a game again and I am positive sach is smarter than that idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/257 "2010-03-21T19:57:59Z")
**Maha** , don’t be so hard on yourself. You’re a great mafia moderator! Anyway, did we all claim, and should we make a little chart? OK, I know this is where I should get off my ass and go do it myself, but I’ll wait and see if some enterprising mafia player does it instead. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/258 "2010-03-21T20:05:06Z")
Sorry about the lack of substantive posting this weekend. A friend of mine had her baby, so we’ve been shopping and cooking and visiting… I’m kinda dubious at the people who, upon seeing a strange typo twice, assumed that it was someone typing out the role twice and making the same typo rather than someone copying and pasting the same typo from their role PM (or typing it once themselves and then C&Ping it again). At worst, it’s a null tell to me. But voting for it isn’t the worst thing to go on for Day One, either. Of **OAOW** and **Kelly** , I’m a bit more suspicious of **Kelly** , because it was a bandwagon vote that didn’t appear to be fully thought out, like someone jumping at the chance to find a case that wasn’t spurious. But **Kelly** is a noob, and that’s generally noobish behavior, so…hrm. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/259 "2010-03-21T20:06:49Z")
I thought **Kelly** wasn’t quite as noobish as we had thought? I thought that pointing out the typos didn’t seem scummy. At worst, the typos mean nothing except a moderator who made a mistake. At best, they could be information. But why suspect the person who notices them? That’s a big WTF from me. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/260 "2010-03-21T20:09:10Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Anyway, did we all claim, and should we make a little chart? OK, I know this is where I should get off my ass and go do it myself, but I’ll wait and see if some enterprising mafia player does it instead. About a page back, I made a listing, not including peeker’s Witch claim. I’m not sure if it was right, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=14)