# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/501 "2010-03-24T17:06:07Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > In fact, on day one it’s more than likely we hit a townie since there’s just so many townies and relatively few scum. Why is **Kelly** more likely? Oops, misread. Thought **Meeko** was saying that **Kelly** was MORE likely when he’s saying he’s LESS. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/502 "2010-03-24T17:30:28Z")
_sits and waits for the ‘why is everyone picking on me’ post_ ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/503 "2010-03-24T17:57:51Z")
From **Meeko** or **peekercpa**? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/504 "2010-03-24T18:06:31Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > _sits and waits for the ‘why is everyone picking on me’ post_ from Meeko. peeker already gave his ‘everyone picking on me is either Scum or Town so lynch them’ post ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/505 "2010-03-24T18:34:32Z")
What time does day end? Do I have time to get in my longer post? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/506 "2010-03-24T18:36:45Z")
You have a whole day. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/507 "2010-03-24T18:48:53Z")
:smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: Totally thought today was Thursday. That’s what happens when you don’t get out of the apartment. Days blend together. Long ass post coming presently. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/508 "2010-03-24T18:53:19Z")
Time for another brain dump. Would say mind meld, but those aren’t as good in Mafia. As always, the scroll bars are to your right of this discourse. It’s all you can eat on understanding my points here, but feel free to leave with the clock strikes midnight, don’t want you to become a pumpkin on me. Snipped Snipped and Snipped. Everything is probably snipped. > [@peekercpa](#): > > but here is the real deal **meeko**. i was plankton. i am town. This implies the problem is on the voter, not the votee. Our mislynch, and, **for the sake of argument,** our pending mislynch will never happen if you do not draw negative attention to you. **You are cursing the symptom, but nourishing the cause.** Two problems here. Tackling the voter only solves one problem. Tackling the votee solves both. Two birds, one stone. I saw that argument coming, am I better or worse for letting us both take the additional cycle to address it ? > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > No > > Firstly I was voting for him because I saw the misspelling as something he _had_ done, ie made a mistake when composing a fake claim. The number of misspellings elsewhere later made this seem much less likely. > > People who have played in games on the dope with me before know I go after perceived slips aggressively, even when it draws me a lot of heat. > > Again no. If I am convinced player A & player B are scum, and I am equally sure for each, then under your rationale, because I can’t justify one over the otehr, I should in actuality vote player C. I don’t see it that way myself. I went hard and long on a player once, for an apparent GLARING error. I dropped the “ **You edited your role!** ” bomb more times than Biden drops the F Bomb. Not to rehash it, I won the letter of that argument, but not the spirit. The Spirit caused me to go full out on a fellow town player. The word of Mod is just that, Mod, not God. Mods are people too. Errors happen. Yes. you can argue the “But I didn’t know that at the time” angle. I will argue back “It doesn’t matter either way, as you unvoted” angle. This will leave us with my point on transferring a vote. Not exactly what I said. I started my reasons by stating that you can’t move a vote 100% from one player to another ([Implication being, **you can’t or at least shouldn’t move a vote to another player, unless you have unique reasons on the second player**]). If you have reason to vote player A, and those reasons can not transfer to player B, then by all means, vote player A. If you CAN transfer all of those reasons to player B, then I would suggest you have a weak case on player A. [And by extension, a weaker case on Player B.] How many games have more than one “vanilla” scum [goon] ? What are the odds that both of them would slip in similar ways? If they slip at all? Not likely. Scum power roles might slip at the same time a goon slips. I would bet that the power scum would have different and ““better”” PIS to slip on. Hence, you would have unique reasons to vote one or the other of these two scum. If you suspect player A and player B to both be scum, please voice your reasons and vote for one of them. Don’t move on to Player C at all. I would assume you have reasons to vote A and B in the first place. That’s fine. Now if you want to move your vote from A to B, you are going to need reasons to do so. They would need to be different, hopefuly better reasons to vote B over your orignal voting for A reasons. If you don’t have better reasons, then simply don’t move your vote, and hope that you were right on Player A. We can only lynch one scum a day, and if they are equal, I don’t really see a reason to move votes. – If B was power, there would be different and better reasons to vote them. [[[Hopefully you guys see my logic here, it might be flawed logic, but at least it is a logic.]]] > [@storyteller0910](#): > > What do you mean by this? You are going to tell me that Kelly drew scum twice in a row, for his first two games? I don’t buy it. Also, remember he is Noob. Take that under consideration with your vote. — And it was a Day start, so Kelly is freewheeling it right now, either way, town or scum. > [@NAF1138](#): > > NETA: :dubious: > > Meek, for the first time ever in the games I have played with you or watched you play you are \*actually \*pinging me. I am fully aware of the implications on what I will say next. \*\* Thanks for the compliment.\*\* I need a backbone. Someone once said the best players look the same Town or Scum. If I didn’t ping some of you guys, it would mean that I became predictable. It would mean I didn’t change. You can’t grow with out change. I need to grow, I need to change. I need to get someplace new with my Mafia. But seriously, I’m town. And I think I’m doing a good job overall so far in this game. If I get lynched, well at least I already know what parts of my game I am gonna keep for the the next one. [[The outline]] I came here for the entertainment, I got to find and keep a souvenir\*. I’m good. \*I use the term souvenir to mean a lesson learned when you didn’t expect to learn anything. I keep paper journal, and if I had a paradigm or epiphany, I write it down in that day’s entry. This game has taught me to use outlines. They will be in my future games. I think I’m having the best game ever, so far. Not bad for wanting to sit this one out. > [@special\_ed](#): > > This is ironic coming from you, Meeko. You;'re the first to complain that almost every vote on you is for personal reasons and is therefore wrong. And now you back up your vote with personal reasons. I don’t think I have an argument for that. I just know that I feel incredibly played by Peeker for the grand sum of my Mafia experience with him. One Day 1 vote on him is the least I can do. [No threat here, beyond the vote I already have. To say nothing of the fact that I agree to the “Real” points other people have made, especially the Youtube claim, and Chronos’ obersavation on the timing of “”“evil”“”. Good catch by Chronos. If you hate my personal reasons to vote peeker, then scratch it out and make it a “Me too!” under Chronos. But, you would hate that vote too. And, To address your “Why is everybody always picking on me” question :: I am not Chuck Brown. I am a guy who wants to play Mafia. You guys get down and dirty, and sling mud. I gotta catch up. That is, It is better for me to dish it back out to all of you, than to hold it in. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/509 "2010-03-24T18:57:38Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Again, you mis-state why most people didn’t like your ‘claim’ It wasn’t that it was in a video (though that can cause problems for some players) but it’s because you did _ **NOT** _ identify it as a claim. > I’m not sure how I can make that more clear. so stop calling it something else. sorry **ed**. you are wrong. my video post and subsequent posts would characterize it as a claim. the fact that you and others can not latch on to that is really sad. but, and i don’t want to beat a dead horse any deader, if you decide to lynch a townie then hopefully some scum will be caught and if not then hopefully some townies will be enlightened or at least stop with the personal vendettas. look what happened in **pede** ’s most recent game. i was the nightmare from hell for the scummies. so yeh, i can see why scum want me gone. i am their worst cataclysm. and when i flip town i sure as heck hope that town will look back on this interchange and get rid of the folks that know that I am not going to put up with their nonsense. kthnxbye ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/510 "2010-03-24T18:58:51Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > You are going to tell me that Kelly drew scum twice in a row, for his first two games? I don’t buy it. Heh. It happens. I drew scum (politician in both too) my first two games, Heroes and Space Hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/511 "2010-03-24T19:05:31Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > How many games have more than one “vanilla” scum [goon] ? What are the odds that both of them would slip in similar ways? If they slip at all? > > Not likely. > > Scum power roles might slip at the same time a goon slips. I would bet that the power scum would have different and ““better”” PIS to slip on. Hence, you would have unique reasons to vote one or the other of these two scum. > > If you suspect player A and player B to both be scum, please voice your reasons and vote for one of them. Don’t move on to Player C at all. > > I would assume you have reasons to vote A and B in the first place. That’s fine. > > Now if you want to move your vote from A to B, you are going to need reasons to do so. They would need to be different, hopefuly better reasons to vote B over your orignal voting for A reasons. > > If you don’t have better reasons, then simply don’t move your vote, and hope that you were right on Player A. We can only lynch one scum a day, and if they are equal, I don’t really see a reason to move votes. – If B was power, there would be different and better reasons to vote them. [[[Hopefully you guys see my logic here, it might be flawed logic, but at least it is a logic.]]] I’m not sure it is. This is a very perplexing way to look at what happened. Why are you making a distinction between vanilla scum and power roles in terms of slips? Why do you think there can’t be more than a couple of vanilla scum? And what did that long discussion have to do with whether **OaOW** was justified in voting when he saw the first typo and not the one in your post? You’re talking about **OaOW** ’s vote as if he should have made a distinction between a vanilla scum and a power role scum. Why is that relevant to what actually happened, which was that he saw a typo, voted on it, and then realized there was another typo and unvoted? > [@](#): > > You are going to tell me that Kelly drew scum twice in a row, for his first two games? I don’t buy it. > > Also, remember he is Noob. Take that under consideration with your vote. — And it was a Day start, so Kelly is freewheeling it right now, either way, town or scum. That isn’t how probability works. The first game is gone. In this one, **Kelly** has the same chance of being scum as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/512 "2010-03-24T19:06:47Z")
> [@](#): > > You are going to tell me that Kelly drew scum twice in a row, for his first two games? I don’t buy it That’s the gambler’s falacy, Meeko. The fact that Kelly drew scum in the last game has no effect on whether he drew scum in this game. And Darth Sensitive drew scum Godfather in his first two games. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/513 "2010-03-24T19:06:48Z")
Actually, I don’t think you’re the worst nightmare for scum. Town has a motivation to get rid of you. And since you inevitably act scummy, it’s not like scum has much of a motivation to kill you off–they know that someone will be voting for you in the day time. I also don’t know why you think that people who vote for you are scum. Last time you were all over **special ed** for voting against you and he turned out to be town/pond. Newsflash–people aren’t all just voting for you because they know you’re town. Most people are town. But you do manage to draw attention to yourself. Maybe you should reflect and evaluate? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/514 "2010-03-24T19:08:46Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Heh. It happens. I drew scum (politician in both too) my first two games, Heroes and Space Hijack. Indeed. Also in terms of weirdness, in Colorless, **Meeko** , **Drainbead** , and I (along with…crap, I’m forgetting who else) were all scum. In the next Scum Mafia game, the three of us were also Masons. It was kind of bizarre, but I guess it happens. So **Meeko** , we definitely shouldn’t be deciding anything based on what happened last game. These are separate games. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/515 "2010-03-24T19:14:22Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > You are going to tell me that Kelly drew scum twice in a row, for his first two games? I don’t buy it. > > Also, remember he is Noob. Take that under consideration with your vote. — And it was a Day start, so Kelly is freewheeling it right now, either way, town or scum. I don’t know Kelly from Adam, but I will say this. Random is random. If you flip a coin 100 times and it comes up heads every time, the odds of you getting the coin to land on heads on the 101st flip are still 50/50. I was taking the fact that he(?) is a noob into account with the vote. I don’t think experiences scum would have made that particular move and then followed it up with an absence, but noob scum might make a mistake and then hope to hide by lurking for the rest of the Day when called on it. The initial vote/unvote was scummy, the following up with lurking was equally scummy. I like my vote still. I am 75% of the way through a re-read and I still like it. > [@Meeko](#): > > I am fully aware of the implications on what I will say next. > \*\* > Thanks for the compliment.\*\* I need a backbone. Someone once said the best players look the same Town or Scum. You’re welcome? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/516 "2010-03-24T19:17:33Z")
NETA: It would seem that I type too slowly. \*Everyone \*beat me to the punch on the probability question. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/517 "2010-03-24T19:17:46Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > You are going to tell me that Kelly drew scum twice in a row, for his first two games? I don’t buy it. > > Also, remember he is Noob. Take that under consideration with your vote. — And it was a Day start, so Kelly is freewheeling it right now, either way, town or scum. IS he noob? I feel like we’ve been over this and people have pointed out he’s not quite as green as we think, and that he’s played other games. Generally, the “No, it’s OK, he’s just a new guy” thing really does ping my radar because I’ve seen it used before. Mostly by me–when I was a newbie AND scum. It’s so easy to just try and cover it up with “It’s my first day.” For me, not good enough. This also reads to me like you’re defending **Kelly**. And both your arguments are weak, but what sticks out to me most is that you’re making them. Why are you defending **Kelly**? I’m not sure I want to move my vote from **peeker** because I do like **Chronos** ’s theory about the video Wicked Witch. **FOS Meeko** > [@](#): > > But seriously, I’m town. And I think I’m doing a good job overall so far in this game. You’re sounding more and more like **peeker**. Remember, we’re all going to say we’re town. And it’s not personal or anything–we really are all operating under the impression that WE’RE town. Even if we’re scum we’re going to try and act as though we’re town. Goes without saying but, “I REALLY am town, REALLY” just makes me sort of roll my eyes and go, “Sure. Yes. Me too. Anyone else?” ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/518 "2010-03-24T19:27:21Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I was taking the fact that he(?) is a noob into account with the vote. I don’t think experiences scum would have made that particular move and then followed it up with an absence, but noob scum might make a mistake and then hope to hide by lurking for the rest of the Day when called on it. On top of that, even though it isn’t something I’d hang my hat on, there’s the fact that the scum haven’t had any communication window yet. It would make a lot of sense for a new player who felt she\* had stepped in it to want to try to clam up and hold out and get some advice, figuring, as it were, that the odds _were_ in her favor for the first day if she laid low. \*(she? – sorry **Kelly** , I’m pretty good with genders but we haven’t played together) ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/519 "2010-03-24T19:36:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > FOS Meeko > > You’re sounding more and more like **peeker**. Remember, we’re all going to say we’re town. I love how you took my comment out of context. I made the “I am Town” bit right after thanking NAF for the entire “This is the first time you’ve ever pinged me” line. I felt it was a compliment. I felt that my Thanks! needed to be paired with my alignment. – You apparently did not. Now, I could continue with this attack, or I could go back and address all the others. Please excuse me. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/520 "2010-03-24T19:40:00Z")
**Meeko** , you said the best players play the same, town or scum. **NAF** said you’re only pinging him in THIS game. That doesn’t speak to your predictability. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=27)