# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/541 "2010-03-24T22:04:56Z")
and then we claim like this. hey this should help z [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mxevBjM0l7I/hqdefault.jpg "A Tribute to the Wicked Witch of the West") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxevBjM0l7I) ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/542 "2010-03-24T22:07:44Z")
you have my sympathies, peeker. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/543 "2010-03-24T22:17:29Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > you have my sympathies, peeker. hey, **ed** i am playing for a town win. anything less than that is unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/544 "2010-03-24T22:33:56Z")
How do you Un-FOS someone ? \*\*I would like to UnFOS Jimmy. \*\* In general, I feel as if I will never be able to breakthrough and play as you guys do. That may or may not be a good thing, but, If I can never get there, no point in debating it. To me, It just feels like so much of an uphill battle, trying to reach a point where we all can understand each other, at times I wonder if its not 90 degrees or more. To Jimmy’s point: I felt like the vote stunk to high heaven. I felt I could explain why it was a bad vote by starting up the entire “you can’t switch a vote” discourse. Perhaps I made my point, and took a few steps too many gilding the lily, tying to make it into a \*\* I can haz ultimate Mafia winz?!\*\* calculus / gaming system. Either way, that vote no longer stands, and I think we ran this moot conversation into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/545 "2010-03-24T23:48:15Z")
[Maybe this will help.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Spy3Nd2D6w) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/546 "2010-03-25T00:01:10Z")
Wait, so you’re Madonna? Now I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/547 "2010-03-25T00:01:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, so you’re Madonna? Now I’m confused. maybe this will help ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JYHpP0b5FMU/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/JYHpP0b5FMU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/548 "2010-03-25T00:02:58Z")
Are you claiming Madonna now, Drain? :dubious:😃 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/549 "2010-03-25T00:03:31Z")
OOG: Of all nights for my Internet connection to act up. I just want the 360 Game Room, is that too much to ask? apparently. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/550 "2010-03-25T00:58:11Z")
This is taking a ridiculously long time, and Ive got to get to bed as I have two hours manning a stall to publicise the people I work for tomorrow morning. So here’s the abbreviated version of what I’ve done so far. 1. The nameclaim. This was decided on very quickly, in something like 2½ hours, and by one-third of the players. If, when we start learning rolenames and powers, we discern a pattern, we might find one of the nefarious forces pushed it. If there’s no pattern, then I doubt anything will be learned. 2.Peeker’s “roleclaim.” It’s in quotes because I did not see it as a claim at the time, and still don’t. Most of the reason is that this : > [@peekercpa](#): > > hey this should help **z** (which is the sum total of information I get from the post) is not a roleclaim. YouTube links are, to me, utterly meaningless, since I can’t watch the videos. Peeker, if you try and convey a concept to someone else, you have to consider not only how you _want_ to articulate your message, but also how the intended recipients might interpret the message. If a significant portion of your audience does not understand the message, then the problem lies with your choice of method, not with their reception gear. Or, to say it another way, you need to avoid elliptical and misleading statements coupled with meaningless links if you want to get your message across. I had no idea that was your claim until you came out and said so explicitly. _ **None** _. That’s all I want to say on that entire episode. 1. OAOW and the misspellings. I don’t think you can tell, form the fact that two letters in a word are transposed, who mistyped. It’s the sort of mistake anyone can make, unlike the mistake which should have, but did not, feature in my lynch in Pollux’s bastard game. The word “neutralise” was not spelled in the American fashion (ie with a “z”), a clear pointer to the author being non-American. Sach might have transposed the letters while working up the PMs (and, if he was using a spellchecker it was probably being ignored owing to the high number of false positives it would generate from the strange names.) OAOW also collected at least one vote for role-fishing. I can see why a bad guy might want to go fishing for indications of a nonscum being non-vanilla, as that would indicate Town power, or possibly third party. Or it might be a Townie pushing for something which indicates non-vanilla status, and who could thus be a bad guy. The problem with this is that the nefarious forces would learn more than the Townie would, hence it is a decidedly anti-Town action. 1. KellyCriterion. Kelly’s had only one spurt of participation. I read his posts as being made as he read the thread - read this, post that - and his vote for NAF to arise from his lack of online experience meaning he failed t realise the fundamental weakness in OAOW’s accusation. I’m not sure that this is the sort of mistake that one of the nefarious forces is particularly _likely_ to make, so I’m going to cut him a little slack. I need to read the rest of the thread, and I can’t afford to sit up all night. Ill try and put an hour in over morning coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/551 "2010-03-25T02:29:53Z")
Well, it seems I DIDN’T as intended post that I was going to be out of town for two days at a blackjack tournament (at which I got stomped hardcore. =P) so yeah. On the other hand, I’m glad I missed it, upon re-read. Man, Peeker. I like him personally but his playstyle drives me up a wall. I think both is opening gambit of “arbitrarily vote a strong player” and **Chronos** ’ analysis of his pseudo-claim are the best thing we have going right now–and I think they both kinda suck as reasons. Grant that it’s day one. I’m going to re-read this again and vote tomorrow. I’m normally an early and often kind of guy but meh, vacation screws up the rhythm. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/552 "2010-03-25T12:19:43Z")
FOS at everyone who brought up **peeker** voting **story** straight off as a reason to vote him. He’s done it in every game I’ve played with the two of them, and I think every time I’ve seen him do it, he’s been Town. He’s probably done it as Scum too, just not in any games I’ve been in. Point is, he does it in every game, so it’s pretty much a null tell. At this point, I’d worry more if he _didn’t_ do it. And most of you have been in the same games, or watched them, and know this. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/553 "2010-03-25T12:32:30Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > FOS at everyone who brought up **peeker** voting **story** straight off as a reason to vote him. /snipped Do you mean to FOS **Zeriel** alone or have others used the vote on **Story** as part of their reasoning for their vote on **Peeker**? > [@TexCat](#): > > **vote peeker** > for being so cagey about his name and parenthetical description (which we still don’t know). It’s distracting town at best, scummy as hell at worst. > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, back home with my notes. It’s funny, just the act of taking the notes helps me pay better attention to the game. > > A few points: First, a few pages back, [from Freudian, post 270](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12249599&postcount=270):That looks to me like a vanilla claim, and **Freudian** is a good enough player that she should know better than to claim a role, even just vanilla, without reason. Care to explain? > > Moving on: I’m currently voting for someone for making a weak vote. But then **peeker** goes and [votes TexCat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12254274&postcount=346), apparently for trying to make sense of his gibberish (which it looks to me like he’s saying we should all be doing), saying that in doing so TexCat mischaracterized him. Well, **peeker** , when you make yourself hard to understand, it’s inevitable that some folks will understand you incorrectly. Nor is it just a matter that that’s just the way he is: He’s proven in previous games that he _is_ able to write coherently; he just apparently chooses for some reason not to. Given that all **Wanderers** did was cast a weak vote, but that **peeker** has both cast a weak vote and is adding considerably to the noise in the thread, I think the latter is a better lynch right now. > > **Unvote Wanderers > Vote peeker** > > Moving yet further along, I’m also suspicious of **Guiri**. [He says](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12254260&postcount=345) that peeker was the second to claim, but the earliest point at which **peeker** could be said to have claimed was [post 174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12244767&postcount=174), by which time **special ed** (140), **Freudian Slit** (154), **Tom Scud** (155), **Oredigger** (156), **NAF** (157), **Red Skeezix** (159), **TexCat** (160), **Chronos** (161), **Mahaloth** (162), **Drain Bead** (166), and **Meeko** (168) had all claimed. I’m having a hard time seeing why anyone would defend **peeker** on this point, so I’m also suspicious of **Guiri**. > [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*Let’s Water the Witch. \*\* > > **Unvote** (Not sure if I had one) > > \*\* > Vote Peeker.\*\* > > Pure and strict policy vote. > > Yes. I said it. > > And I said it it terms that Peeker will hopefully understand. If I get more coherent information out of him, then we can begin to talk Unvote. > > **FTR** : Peeker, I Said you\*\*\* indirectly insult\*\*\* me. I would like to think that outside of Mafia we still understand each other. > > It’s just, even more so in this game, than in recent memory, I think I have lapped you bud. > > It’s sad. I will get over it, I don’t know if you will or not. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > That actually makes a lot of sense to me. It also explains why he was so vague. And the Elizabeth Berkeley photo–if he got the sense that other scum was NOT posting their real IDs, he could play coy and act like it was just a game, he was just playing around–see, he posted a pic of the chick in Showgirls. Why are you taking this so seriously? But since there were other “evil” roles, he could be all, “Yeah, that’s my role, wtf? How is that not obvious! fsalkfjsaf!” > > So. **unvote red** > \*\* > vote peeker\*\* > > You can’t really say that someone is scum every time they vote for you, dude. It smacks of OMGUS. Anyway, why is it that he’s flawed, and yet the fact that you get votes all the time on day one doesn’t mean that you as a player are flawed? > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Man, this is a tough game. Having said that, it has had more activity for me to read and try to interpret than any other Day One I’ve had. > > I have to say, I’m leaning toward either Chronos, Peeker, or both being scum. I tend to think it’s unlikely both are scum, as they are heading toward ensuring the kill of one of them, which is a pretty foolish move so early in the game. Obviously, it’s possible both are town, as well, but there is no way to tell. > > Having said this, I believe Chronos made a very good argument in post #466, where he walked through the timing and motivations of Peeker. > > Read it yourself: > > **Vote Peeker** > > Now that I’ve previewed, I see that Freudian has made the same observation. I swear I started this post more than an hour ago, but have wandered away and worked on my job in the meantime. Anyway, there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/554 "2010-03-25T12:50:31Z")
So not much in the way of new arguments since my last post - two votes for peeker, one for Kelly (Jimmy, also citing the “i don’t believe OaOW is catching so much heat” remark) and a small blow-up surrounding Meeko and the gambler’s fallacy. I still haven’t had a chance to really go back and reread Chronos’ interactions with peeker to evaluate story’s argument about him. I will note that there are about 7 players who haven’t voted yet - please vote, townies. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/555 "2010-03-25T12:55:42Z")
Ugh, ugh, ugh. I worked from home yesterday, and was gleefully anticipating spending a good hour developing a case. I had time, I had my own computer with a better connection so I could browse the thread more easily, it was going to rock. Then a tree in my backyard freaking fell down. So I’m going to need to be a bit abbreviated. I don’t like the case against **peeker** , which at this point is starting to border on an arbitrary “let’s just lynch peeker on general principles” thing than any kind of actual game play. How many times do we have to go along with a shitty argument and lynch peeker Day One before we stop doing that? I mean, he might be Scum, and I hope he is, because at least then this Day won’t be a total lost (see what I did there? Hi, Total! You never play any more!). But we’re collectively on the same path we stumbled down for Days in the Cecil Pond game, and it’s a terrible idea. For everyone who’s on about peeker being a distraction - which is more of a distraction: the guy who makes one single sort of confusing post then clarifies it, or the people who keep banging on about that single confusing post for real-life days on end? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/556 "2010-03-25T12:58:52Z")
Oh, and by the way, **peeker** : Seriously, Elizabeth Berkley? She’s scary, and I think I got a social disease just from looking at her picture. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/557 "2010-03-25T13:04:22Z")
Hmmm… no change in vote count. That’s probably not a good sign. storyteller (0): [del]peekercpa 116 201[/del] peekercpa (4): [del]Zeriel 151 190[/del], [del]TexCat 314 356[/del], Chronos 360, Meeko 383, Freudian Slit 478, Mahaloth 482 NAF1138 (0): [del]One And Only Wanderers 179 288[/del], [del]KellyCriterion 242 244[/del] One And Only Wanderers (0): [del]Chronos 180 360[/del], [del]Jimmy Chitwood 184[/del], [del]Meeko 220 291[/del] Mahaloth (0): [del]Meeko 291 298[/del] KellyCriterion (2): NAF1138 313, Jimmy Chitwood 484 TexCat (2): Red Skeezix 316, Tom Scud 328, [del]peekercpa 346 450[/del] Oredigger77 (1): Drain Bead 347 Red Skeezix (1): TexCat 356, [del]Freudian Slit 364 478[/del] Chronos (2): storyteller0910 416, peekercpa 450 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/558 "2010-03-25T13:06:44Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I mean, he might be Scum, and I hope he is, because at least then this Day won’t be a total lost (see what I did there? Hi, Total! You never play any more!). But we’re collectively on the same path we stumbled down for Days in the Cecil Pond game, and it’s a terrible idea. For everyone who’s on about peeker being a distraction - which is more of a distraction: the guy who makes one single sort of confusing post then clarifies it, or the people who keep banging on about that single confusing post for real-life days on end? Well, this time it seems we’re not just voting for him for that. **Chronos** made the argument that he was scum trying to pretend he wasn’t the Wicked Witch until he was sure it was safe to claim an “evil” character, and I agreed with that assessment. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/559 "2010-03-25T13:12:25Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I will note that there are about 7 players who haven’t voted yet - please vote, townies. /snipped I haven’t voted. I’m on the fence about **Peeker** and therefore **Chronos** and **Special Ed** in their accusation. I’d like the noise to end but am not sure which of them, if any, is scum. With all the discussion focused on 2 or 3 players, it’s been hard to get a read on anyone else. I’m a little suspicious of **Rysto** for starting the discussion on the name claim, not actually taking part in the discussion (but posting), and then being almost the last player to actually claim. Not a lot to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/560 "2010-03-25T13:44:13Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > FOS at everyone who brought up **peeker** voting **story** straight off as a reason to vote him. > > He’s done it in every game I’ve played with the two of them, and I think every time I’ve seen him do it, he’s been Town. He’s probably done it as Scum too, just not in any games I’ve been in. Point is, he does it in every game, so it’s pretty much a null tell. At this point, I’d worry more if he _didn’t_ do it. And most of you have been in the same games, or watched them, and know this. Okay, so you’re going to FOS me for… calling out a stupid play. Repeated anti-town play is still anti-town, even if it’s traditional and he always does it. And I don’t have anything better to go on right now, so since you’re fostering anti-town behaviors (and, I might add, FOSing an apparent list (“everyone”) that includes pretty much me and…me, **vote Drain Bead** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=29)