# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/701 "2010-03-28T16:36:28Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Oh, **ed.** Don’t you ever get tired? > > **ed** , going forward, can I make a request that you not turn this into several pages and several small d-days’ worth of argument? It seems our rate of attrition for this game is unprecedented from a willing participant standpoint. **Meeko** isn’t going to drop it any more than **peeker** did. You saw how that turned out. OK. I apologize. I’ll let it go. I just see the faulty reasoning and I want to help make corrections to that. I don’t even particularly think Meeko is Scum. I think he just gets overly defensive when questioned or suspected. A part of me is hopeful that one more post will help him to see where his reasoning is going astray. You’d think I would have learned my lesson in that regard. _sigh_ PS, no I really don’t get tired 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/702 "2010-03-28T16:37:50Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Everyone is motivated to act. > > Many players look for the motivation behind a player and try to discern if their actions can be interpreted as trying to help Town win (Town motivation) or helping Scum win (Scum motivation) > > Unfortunately, it’s not terribly easy. > \>\>\> If you are Innocent , If you are Town, you “Just Are” there is no motivation needed. It’s like asking someone when they chose their sexual orientation. > > \>\>\> If you are Scum, you would need “Motivation” to play as town. Town gets “townliness” naturally. Motivation is not needed, Hence I find it out of place, and I wonder from what alignment in this game, Freudian says what she says here. > > Meeko, Freudian has better odds of being Town in this game too. Why are you voting for her then? > > I went at length to explain this in the post where I voted her. > > She is using the Gamblers Fallacy situation against me. Which would be a Jackpot, if you will, of Scum Motivation to act against me. > > Also, If Freudian and Kelly are scum, Freudian would bus and start a wagon on Kelly. Once kelly is lynched, Freudian would have enough town cred to then lynch me. > > Odd, here you interpret the word correctly. > > It’s possible that freudian is motivated to get you lynched to use up a mislynch and move the Scum closer to victory. \*\* Well, we agree there, then. Looks like I didnt need to restate it. Anyway I have to go now. Look back to my Freudian Vote post on her for more on my case. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/703 "2010-03-28T16:56:00Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > I find the death of NAF interesting. Why would scum shoot in that direction? Maybe one of the misspelled brotherhood is scum and wanted to confirm that misspellings were not a data point? I really don’t like this post. You seem very sensitive about your vote to kill **NAF** , who was town and is now dead. Like **Rysto** said, by “one of the misspelled brotherhood,” you obviously must mean **Meeko**. Why phrase it the way you did instead of just saying so? Who is the rest of the brotherhood? Apart from the personal benefit that you’d receive if we all interpreted the nightkill that way, I think it’s a huge stretch to jump right to that explanation (or any explanation in particular, really). Is that really the first thing that jumped to mind – not that maybe **NAF** was on the right track at some point, but that somebody who tried to kill **NAF** , i.e. you, was actually on the right track? It’s a bold effort, and to be honest I’m having trouble imagining the scum coming out of the gate with such a ham-handed manipulation, but that suggestion isn’t the most pro-town I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/704 "2010-03-28T17:34:03Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > […] > So, assuming he was the scum kill, why choose him? I can think of several reasons: > > 1. As **OaOW** points out, to remove suspicion from **Meeko** for the PM typo > 2. To remove **Kelly** ’s main antagonist (and expose **Kelly** as scum?) > 3. To remove a strong player (I believe **NAF** is so considered) > 4. To remove a player at random (in the spirit of the name of the game) > 5. To make Town think No.1 or 2 above and so add momentum to suspicions from Day1 for a Day2 **Meeko** or **Kelly** lynch > > A couple of plausible options, some data points, some WIFOM, I guess there’s not much point trying to make sense of the first night kill until later in the game when we have more info… It certainly looks like #5 is happening whether that was the scum intention or not. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/705 "2010-03-28T21:01:41Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > It certainly looks like #5 is happening whether that was the scum intention or not. Tex, what do you think of my theory [as was seen in my vote on **Freudian**] that Fruedian could be playing **Kelly** against Meeko for Town Credit. – Or that Freudian and Kelly are both scum, and Freudian fully intends to bus Kelly if it means getting Meeko Lynched, to gain Freudian enough town credit to pass as town? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/706 "2010-03-28T21:54:50Z")
Checking in and reviewing… Re: the Drain/Zeriel thing, I’ll accept Drain’s argument in the overnight thread that she wasn’t sure if there was a second person who cited peeker’s “joke vote” elsewhere. There have been a lot of posts in the thread & I’m not going to expect everyone to quote chapter & verse for every FoS (as opposed to a vote, where I’d at least like to have a clear idea what they’re on about). Speaking of which, I really don’t understand [MHaye’s vote on Chronos](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12265736&postcount=591). You’re saying that (1) voting someone on a misspelling is weak, and only a foolish person would make such a vote; but Chronos didn’t make that vote: he voted One for making a weak vote. I realize you were fighting the clock at the time you wrote your vote post; could you please elucidate? On the subject of Chronos, having looked back over the peeker kerfuffle, I don’t think he stood out from the other people who were riding him (incl. Meeko, Freudian, and Ed, with others sticking their oars in as well). On the other element of **story** ’s revote, I have to admit that it didn’t occur to me that a license to the doctor to lie would also give scum _carte blanche_ - heck, I endorsed the idea some place back before the name claim started. Anyway, not seeing a **Chronos** lynch at the moment. Kelly: I’m going to wait and hear what he has to say. Meeko/Freudian: This is a tough one for me; two players, both of whom tend to be vote magnets. I agree with Rysto that it looks pretty bad that Freudian went from helping to lynch peeker to going after the other high-controversy (and high volume) poster in the thread. Her vote on peeker was very me-too-ish, as well, riding along with Chronos’ analysis. On the other hand, Meeko. This is tough, as, to be honest, I don’t tend to read Meeko’s posts all that closely, especially when he gets into a, uh, “extended debate” with someone (and that someone is often ed). But, well, he voted **peeker** explicitly for playstyle reasons, and came out of the blue to defend **Kelly**. I helped to lose Colorless Mafia for town by talking myself out of a vote for Meeko; I’m going to keep an eye in this direction. That said, I’m going to continue with my suspicion from yesterday; **TexCat** ’s vote on peeker came after peeker had clarified himself, and still looks opportunistic to me. **vote TexCat** ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/707 "2010-03-28T22:07:49Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > in the overnight thread The who the what now? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/708 "2010-03-28T22:47:33Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Tex, what do you think of my theory [as was seen in my vote on **Freudian**] that Fruedian could be playing **Kelly** against Meeko for Town Credit. – Or that Freudian and Kelly are both scum, and Freudian fully intends to bus Kelly if it means getting Meeko Lynched, to gain Freudian enough town credit to pass as town? Is there a reason you’re referring to yourself in the third person? Is **Meeko** ’s real identity Bob Dole? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/709 "2010-03-28T22:51:29Z")
The overnight portion of the thread, I’d imagine, since I made my explanation after Nightfall. Still, it’s an interesting turn of phrase. In the last game, a Scum **Rysto** referred to a NK power as a “lynch,” and these sorts of Freudian (Sigmund, not Slit) mistakes are the type of slips I think are more often scummy than not. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/710 "2010-03-28T22:56:05Z")
Yes, the overnight portion of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/711 "2010-03-28T23:29:16Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Tex, what do you think of my theory [as was seen in my vote on **Freudian**] that Fruedian could be playing **Kelly** against Meeko for Town Credit. – Or that Freudian and Kelly are both scum, and Freudian fully intends to bus Kelly if it means getting Meeko Lynched, to gain Freudian enough town credit to pass as town? I think it’s unlikely that they are both scum and that Freudian is bussing Kelly to lynch you and get town cred. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/712 "2010-03-29T01:39:13Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Is there a reason you’re referring to yourself in the third person? Is **Meeko** ’s real identity Bob Dole? 🙂 To avoid ambiguous language. Meeko has always been like Bob Dole. Freudian, I worry about you though. You have played in games where I talk in thrid person before, but this is the first game where you take issue with it. Why the Uncharacteristic change for this game? \*\* Smudge, Insult, or Baiting.\*\* Take your pick, you are doing at least one of them. And I really don’t get why. … Unless I was on to you. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/713 "2010-03-29T01:47:19Z")
I can’t remember if you did it before. I vaguely remember someone doing it, but wasn’t aware it was you. It just struck me as really bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/714 "2010-03-29T06:34:05Z")
[quote=“Jimmy\_Chitwood, post:703, topic:532942”] Apart from the personal benefit that you’d receive if we all interpreted the nightkill that way, I think it’s a huge stretch to jump right to that explanation (or any explanation in particular, really). Is that really the first thing that jumped to mind – not that maybe **NAF** was on the right track at some point, but that somebody who tried to kill **NAF** , i.e. you, was actually on the right track? [/QUOTE To be honest, I didn’t remember who else all was mis spelled, and I didn’t have time to go find out, hence my use of the term. “Brotherhood”. I obviously wasn’t on the right track with Naf as that looked like a town reveal. That said the choice of NAF for death on night one is interesting, and the killer(s) had to have _some_ reasons for chooing NAF. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/715 "2010-03-29T13:45:40Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Checking in and reviewing… > > Re: the Drain/Zeriel thing, I’ll accept Drain’s argument in the overnight thread that she wasn’t sure if there was a second person who cited peeker’s “joke vote” elsewhere. I won’t. **Vote Drain Bead**. You’re next, Mr. “Overnight Thread”, unless someone else jumps the queue. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/716 "2010-03-29T14:31:48Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You’re next, Mr. “Overnight Thread”, unless someone else jumps the queue. :rolleyes: So the fact that: a) Drain did, in fact, give the explanation Tom mentioned overnight in _this_ thread b) If she were scum, it would make no sense for Drain to be discussing this in private with the scum c) The off-board games all have separate Day and Night threads, so it would be entirely reasonable for a player used to that to make the mistake means nothing to you? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/717 "2010-03-29T14:46:41Z")
Interesting choice for a Night kill, one thought that hasn’t been brought up is that maybe the scum’s roles are tied to their names so that took a shot looking at a religious person being our doctor. I don’t like Jimmy’s comments on OAOW’s discussion of NAF’s death though > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I really don’t like this post. You seem very sensitive about your vote to kill **NAF** , who was town and is now dead. Like **Rysto** said, by “one of the misspelled brotherhood,” you obviously must mean **Meeko**. Why phrase it the way you did instead of just saying so? Who is the rest of the brotherhood? > > Apart from the personal benefit that you’d receive if we all interpreted the nightkill that way, I think it’s a huge stretch to jump right to that explanation (or any explanation in particular, really). Is that really the first thing that jumped to mind – not that maybe **NAF** was on the right track at some point, but that somebody who tried to kill **NAF** , i.e. you, was actually on the right track? > > It’s a bold effort, and to be honest I’m having trouble imagining the scum coming out of the gate with such a ham-handed manipulation, but that suggestion isn’t the most pro-town I’ve ever seen. I didn’t read OAOW’s post as trying to divert attention as much as trying to look for answers which was my first response to seeing who was killed. It also looks like Jimmy is trying to build a case but not putting a vote behind it. Since I managed to not vote yesterDay I’m going to put out an early vote based on Jimmy’s misinterpretation of OAOW and saying that there was a benefit to that misinterpretation of giving OAOW townie cred. Tacking on a sentence at the end to make it seem like you’re not attributing OAOW’s actions to being scum bothers me too. \*\* Vote Jimmy\*\* I think the FS/Meeko debate is a lot of smoke. I’m not saying its scum driven but I think it’s a distraction. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/718 "2010-03-29T14:47:13Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I can’t remember if you did it before. I vaguely remember someone doing it, but wasn’t aware it was you. It just struck me as really bizarre. **Meeko** says “ **Meeko** would like to take this time to assure you that **Meeko** has nearly always referred to ‘ **Meeko** ’ as **Meeko** at least once in every game \*\*Meeko \*\*has played, or if you will, the grand sum of all games **Meeko** has played in, that had posts written by **Meeko** ” **Meeko** thinks that was a tad overboard, but **Meeko** hopes that you get **Meeko** ’s point. No. But seriously, there are times where I just find it easier to refer to myself in the third person. I think way too many people refer to themselves in the first person, when the third person is actually better. I do think it avoids confusion. Over here. " I " can point to the teeming thousands. Over here, “Meeko” can refer to me, or a Walt Disney Raccoon. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/719 "2010-03-29T14:49:53Z")
So a comment on the “slip” thing. I’ve been around this particular block with both Zeriel (Lost) and Drain (Screamers) in the past, and since it’s not an argument that has a thing to do with logic or decision-making, it’s not something that can be argued about, so I’m not going to argue about it. (That it can’t be argued with doesn’t make it an invalid technique for finding scum, though I haven’t found it terribly useful in my experience.) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/720 "2010-03-29T14:54:03Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > No. But seriously, there are times where I just find it easier to refer to myself in the third person. I think way too many people refer to themselves in the first person, when the third person is actually better. I do think it avoids confusion. Over here. " I " can point to the teeming thousands. Over here, “Meeko” can refer to me, or a Walt Disney Raccoon. Well, since all I have to do to see who’s posting is glance over at the username above, it’s not too difficult for me to parse “I.” Anyway, I’m also leaning towards **One and Only Wanderers** , as others have also, due to this: > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > I find the death of NAF interesting. Why would scum shoot in that direction? Maybe one of the misspelled brotherhood is scum and wanted to confirm that misspellings were not a data point? This is a pretty huge reach. I mean, I think the whole misspellings are a null tell at this point. Yeah, one of the other misspelled people could be scum. But they just easily could be town. And the fact that you keep harping on the misspelling is odd to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=37)