# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/841 "2010-03-31T21:17:44Z")
Evening folks. I’m sorry not to have looked in before, but I’m afraid I’ve been blindsided by a spring cold. Right now, I can’t concentrate for the life of me. I’ll see how things go tomorrow. Maybe after a night’s rest I’ll be able to concentrate. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/842 "2010-03-31T21:57:08Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wow, really? You weren’t pinging me until you said this. Yeesh, that is a pretty bold scum move if you are scum and you are more or less challenging us to vote you out and hoping we won’t. > > Hmm… > > I’d feel to foolish to let you trick us with that move, so I’ll oblige you with my vote. If you are town, you have seriously made a ridiculously foolish move and have hurt the rest of us town(if you get yourself killed here). > > :sigh: > > Hoping you are a bold scum and not a foolish townie, I will: > > **Unvote Tom** > > **Vote OneandOnly** > > Am I wrong here, everyone? I can’t believe I’m the first to call One on this move. it’s foolish townie. And just to clarify, when I said once i come up town, scrutinise the votes on me - I only mean the votes before that post. Fully understand the votes after it. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/843 "2010-03-31T22:14:08Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Love how the only comment about me is based on something that someone ELSE said regarding me. Well, that’s because nothing you’ve done has really pinged me…yet… ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/844 "2010-03-31T22:25:32Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Well, that’s because nothing you’ve done has really pinged me…yet… You said that you were making comments about each player. Mine wasn’t about me at all, it was about Tom. You could have commented on the whole **zeriel** thing, but you chose not to. I find that interesting. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/845 "2010-03-31T23:01:41Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > You said that you were making comments about each player. Mine wasn’t about me at all, it was about Tom. You could have commented on the whole **zeriel** thing, but you chose not to. I find that interesting. OK, I’m sorry if it’s a blow to your self-esteem. The only interesting thing about you so far is the interaction with Tom Scud…and, honestly, it’s not that terribly interesting either. If you noticed, I was commenting on the people who had received votes (and I added Chronos in because a comment he made pinged me and I don’t want to forget about him. You know, though, I think you might be the first person who seems upset at me for not making more comments about them…:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/846 "2010-03-31T23:01:55Z")
Ok, having reviewed OneandOnly’s posts, and Jimmy’s relevant posts, I understand why people find 751 (his Jimmy vote post) suspicious. I think I’m reinventing the wheel here, but in any case reviewing the tapes: > [@one](#): > > Whilst we’re on it - any reason you haven’t quoted yours? You just stated it. > [@jimmy](#): > > I would not have voted based on Wanderers’ vote. I’m voting for him because I didn’t think demanding a full copy-and-paste from someone who had already name-claimed was helpful. > [@one](#): > > I had only asked Chronos why he hadn’t quoted when making his claim. I never asked for a FULL claim and this is a blatant smudge to suggest I was. Now, Jimmy did not say that One had asked for a Full claim, just a fully-copied-and-pasted name claim. And, though it was in the form of a question, the post to Chronos pretty clearly reads to me as an insinuation that failing to do a full (minus power role information) quote was a sign of scumminess. Moving on, one thing that I don’t think others have commented on popped up in his posts from today (684): > [@one](#): > > Someone killed him, and had a reason for doing so. if it was SK, we can still consider it. Now, someone who was being careful about fact-checking would have noticed that there cannot be a Serial Killer in this game, because the mod has stated that _there are no third parties_. I actually see this as perversely supporting One’s case with respect to his “brotherhood of misspelling” remark; the lack of third parties is something I wouldn’t have expected to slip from a scum’s mind any more than a town’s (maybe it would even stick tighter), and I don’t see any scum benefit from bringing up an (easily disproven) SK; thus we have some independent evidence supporting One’s assertion that he is maybe a bit foggy on the details. Anyway, I don’t hate the One case. I don’t think it’s as good as the case on **Freudian** , but I’m not going to twist myself into pretzels to stop it either. (Don’t have time to go into it in detail, as this post got way longer than I wanted it to, but I also see story’s case on Mahaloth as having merit; I’m a little leery of OMGUSing him for jumping to vote me as quickly as he did, but he and Freudian both jumped on the Peeker wagon in classic “me-too” form, and he’s otherwise not stuck his neck out very far.) ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/847 "2010-03-31T23:23:18Z")
I don’t feel strongly on most of the case against **OaOW** but, as I mentioned in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12286800&postcount=809), I was very pinged by his [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12286583&postcount=807) this morning. Both the opportunistic resurrection of a case against **Jimmy** , OMGUS or not, and the offer to be sacrificed are quite strange. His latest [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12288989&postcount=842) just adds more confusion but also makes me hesitate to vote him now. I was about to vote Freudian Slit but I’ve just realized I misinterpreted her vote on **OaOW** and she didn’t actually do the 360 on her view of his vote on **NAF** as I’d originally thought, sorry for the misrepresentation. I still maintain a healthy level of suspicion for the bandwagon voting but my intended case is now somewhat weakened. I’ll need to review. I fully intended to place a vote now and avoid repeating my Day1 last hour vote but again I’m not feeling comfortable with voting either of the vote leaders. I’ll sleep on it and see if I’m inspired first thing in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/848 "2010-03-31T23:37:48Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, I’m sorry if it’s a blow to your self-esteem. The only interesting thing about you so far is the interaction with Tom Scud…and, honestly, it’s not that terribly interesting either. If you noticed, I was commenting on the people who had received votes (and I added Chronos in because a comment he made pinged me and I don’t want to forget about him. > You know, though, I think you might be the first person who seems upset at me for not making more comments about them…:smack: You were commenting on the people who received votes, yes…but totally ignored the reason I had that one vote to begin with. Which I find odd. It’s not that I wanted more comments, I just don’t understand why the comment you made about me was actually about **Tom**. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/849 "2010-04-01T01:57:22Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > You were commenting on the people who received votes, yes…but totally ignored the reason I had that one vote to begin with. Which I find odd. It’s not that I wanted more comments, I just don’t understand why the comment you made about me was actually about **Tom**. OK, OK, fine, let’s change that to say: I don’t really find anything out of the ordinary with Drain. I can see a Townie making the mistake regarding Zeriel and the case against peeker. However, there was the odd comment from Tom Scud, but I tend to accept the explanation…still it was an odd comment from someone who usually plays here (I mean Tom Scud) ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/850 "2010-04-01T01:58:45Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, OK, fine, let’s change that to say: I don’t really find anything out of the ordinary with Drain. I can see a Townie making the mistake regarding Zeriel and the case against peeker. However, there was the odd comment from Tom Scud, but I tend to accept the explanation…still it was an odd comment from someone who usually plays here (I mean Tom Scud) and, before Tom Scud complains about his "meh’, let me edit that to say: meh, there was an odd comment about the overnight thread, but I’m willing to chalk that up to a mistake unless other data points present themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/851 "2010-04-01T02:51:21Z")
@ **story** : I’m trying to understand your case against Mahaloth and a term has come up and I’ve seen it before, but I don’t think I understand it like I thought I did or at least not how your using it. Opportunistic voting. I’ve always thought it meant scum jumping on a town player doing something superficially scummy. IE, I think that OAOW’s vote on NAF for the spelling error was opportunistic, since I’ve seen my share of spelling mistakes in scum claims. Mahaloth’s vote looks weakly motivated to me since I consider those kind of displays to be null, but it doesn’t seem to fit in my definition of opportunistic. Care to explain what you mean here? @ **texcat** : Can you explain your vote for JC, more thoroughly? From where I stand it appears that you are mischaracterizing him in one of your points. You have said him being against a name claim is scummy. But when I looked back to find where he said that, I could only find him stating that he was against a name claim on the first day of the game, which I interpreted to mean, before anyone had a chance to weigh in on whether that was a good idea or not. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/852 "2010-04-01T02:54:25Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Hey! Look at that. I have a meeting tomorrow at 2PM. > Maybe if you ask nicely, you can convince **ShadowFacts** to end the Day for you. I can be “convinced” with french fries and tiramisu (not necessarily together). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/853 "2010-04-01T04:04:03Z")
**Would be interesting, if everyone that questions my Gamblers fallacy were scum.** Low hanging fruit, and a reason to get rid of a townie. One wonders how “Meeko” would look when he is on a hot streak. - - - For the LAST time :: Yes, I Fell for Gambler’s Fallacy. Everyone who assumes that Kelly HAS To be scum is also falling victim to it. I have no clue what alignment Kelly has. **BASED ON THIS GAME ALONE** kelly has a better chance of being town. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/854 "2010-04-01T04:16:14Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > @ **texcat** : Can you explain your vote for JC, more thoroughly? From where I stand it appears that you are mischaracterizing him in one of your points. You have said him being against a name claim is scummy. But when I looked back to find where he said that, I could only find him stating that he was against a name claim on the first day of the game, which I interpreted to mean, before anyone had a chance to weigh in on whether that was a good idea or not. Red, you no doubt are referring to this post: > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > For the record, deciding on and actually proceeding with a name claim on Friday night, and the first day of the first Day? I think I’m against that.[…] and FTR, I don’t know why you would be against the name claim, on the first day or the last day. I gives information to town, and doesn’t seem to have been any help to the scum. BTW, at the time of Chitwood’s post 13 or (14 if you count peeker) people had claimed, but Jimmy does not claim until this post 2 1/2 hours and 2 claims later… > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by One And Only Wanderers > > everyone else had quoted. > > A decision I don’t think was for the best, but hardly a good reason to exacerbate the situation. Here he questions OaOW, about asking Chronos about not quoting his claim. This seems like a niggling, little point to me. What difference does it make whether you put your claim in [quote] marks or not? I was suspicious of peeker for the same reason. Though, peeker spent a long time only claiming wicked witch of the west, without parentheses. I wasn’t sure that what was in the parentheses made any difference. He could have been Wicked Witch of the West(commander of flying monkeys) or Wicked Witch of the West(leader of munchkins), or Brittany Spears (singer). The point is not that the information is going to make much difference to me as town, or to the scum, but WHY people are hiding the information. Neither Jimmy nor Chronos quoted their PM, and they did not include the Wiki link like I believe the rest of us did (though peeker’s link was broken!). It just makes you wonder why. Chronos explained that he wanted to leave some doubt about whether he had a power role or not. I’m not sure I buy that explanation, but I guess it might make sense. Jimmy continues > [@](#): > > Yes, people do stand out if they don’t post a full PM, which is why I don’t like it, would prefer not to do so myself, and hope nobody else does, but that standing out is a symptom of (what is in my opinion) the problem, not a good reason to make an even bigger deal out of it. > > And obviously you didn’t need to post anything either way, but you did, and having done so the question is why you might have done that. It’s easy for me to believe that on day one the motivation to jump at **Chronos** ’ relative pithiness could come from a scum sensing that he can sniff out role information. Like you say, it’s far from a smoking gun but hey, day one.[…] He admits that people stand out, but obviously doesn’t think that it is scummy in any way. I just question why an honest townie would hide information from the town. What was he scared of? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/855 "2010-04-01T08:14:43Z")
Hopefully this will be early enough to allow for further discussion before the end of the Day. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > My problem with a single data point suggestion for why scum would do something is twofold if other people take it and run with it is easy for the other options to be left behind and in this case it smudges another player without even naming them. I’ve come up with an alternative reading for the single data point suggestion which adds another possible scum motivation. **OaOW** suggested, what I consider to be, one of the least likely reasons why **NAF** was killed. So, when I first read the post I wanted to jump in and point to (what I considered) the more obvious reason why scum killed **NAF** - he was too close to **Kelly**. However when typing up my reply I felt I may have been tricked into reacting this way - a scum **OaOW** may have been playing us to get exactly that response and then allow him and fellow scum to jump on a bandwagon to lynch **Kelly** without having been the ones to actually make the case. I rephrased my reply to include both options: **Kelly** is scum and scum want us to think **Kelly** is scum, as a way to avoid opening this door. A bit of WIFOM and probably a stretch of imagination but a further “what’s the scum motivation” > [@Mahaloth](#): > > No, One is telling us that it is actually recommended to vote for him. I think it is a bold scum move to try to get us to not do it. If One is town, then that was a ridiculously foolish thing to think the rest of us town would let go by. While I’m a little suspicious of **Mahaloth** for other things (“[So, was Witch Town](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12265919&postcount=616)” as opposed to “Was Witch scum?” considering he’d voted for **Peeker** , presumably because he thought **Peeker** was scum, not town, “[Any thoughts are better than no thoughts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12282952&postcount=749)” but “[There is little to comment on](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12283207&postcount=753)” and his skimming in “[I can’t believe I’m the first to call One on this move.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12287547&postcount=815)” when both **[Special Ed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12286784&postcount=808)** and [I](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12286800&postcount=809) had responded to it), I tend to agree with this. > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > it’s foolish townie. And just to clarify, when I said once i come up town, scrutinise the votes on me - I only mean the votes before that post. Fully understand the votes after it. And this sort of gives everyone who hasn’t voted him yet, a suspicion-free invitation to vote, he’s suggesting that scum and town alike can add themselves to the bandwagon against him but shouldn’t be scrutinised for doing so. Another useful ploy if he’s scum as it’s likely none of his teammates were among the initial voters. I really hope **OaOW** is scum as we cannot let a scum get away with this sort of play. This vote is open to scrutiny. **Vote One And Only Wanderers** ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/856 "2010-04-01T09:18:26Z")
Sorry guys, I have too much going on right now: **Please remove me from the game** If it’s too late to be removed, let me know, and I’ll see if I can up my involvement. Good luck to all. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/857 "2010-04-01T11:33:04Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > And this sort of gives everyone who hasn’t voted him yet, a suspicion-free invitation to vote, he’s suggesting that scum and town alike can add themselves to the bandwagon against him but shouldn’t be scrutinised for doing so. Another useful ploy if he’s scum as it’s likely none of his teammates were among the initial voters. > > I really hope **OaOW** is scum as we cannot let a scum get away with this sort of play. This vote is open to scrutiny. Holy Crap! **It’s a WIFOM Boilermaker.** Wine Inside Wine In Front Of Me. Wonder if Guiri is Scum getting a vote on scum so as not to stick out. But, why place a vote in language of a similar fashion as OAOW’s “My vote will confirm me” type language. **Then again, would Guiri be so bold as to say all of this, as scum?** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/858 "2010-04-01T11:54:32Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > For the LAST time :: > > Yes, I Fell for Gambler’s Fallacy. You can say it repeatedly, but only you really knows if it’s true. Don’t get upset because people don’t believe you. It’s how the game is played. > [@Meeko](#): > > Everyone who assumes that Kelly HAS To be scum is also falling victim to it. Can you point out a quote where anyone assumes that Kelly must be Scum? I know some people have indicated that it’s possible > [@Meeko](#): > > I have no clue what alignment Kelly has. > > **BASED ON THIS GAME ALONE** kelly has a better chance of being town. **BASED ON THIS GAME ALONE** meeko has a better chance of being town. **BASED ON THIS GAME ALONE** special ed has a better chance of being town. **BASED ON THIS GAME ALONE** drain bead has a better chance of being town. **BASED ON THIS GAME ALONE** freudian slit has a better chance of being town. **BASED ON THIS GAME ALONE** GuiriEnEspaña has a better chance of being town. etc. We can say that of anyone. The key is finding who is more likely than another player of being Scum…otherwise, we’ll never vote for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/859 "2010-04-01T11:55:56Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > This vote is open to scrutiny. **Isn’t every vote in Mafia open to scrutiny?** Doesn’t this go with out saying? Why then is there a knee-jerk reaction to add it in? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/860 "2010-04-01T12:08:01Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Wonder if Guiri is Scum getting a vote on scum so as not to stick out. \*\* Your post made me smile. This vote comes late in the Day. It pushes **OaOW** into the lead. It’s prefaced with a hope that there’ll be time left for discussion before Day end. It includes a partial case against another player. I don’t think this is an attempt to not stick out. > [@Meeko](#): > > **Isn’t every vote in Mafia open to scrutiny?** > > Doesn’t this go with out saying? Why then is there a knee-jerk reaction to add it in? Of course. How do you think I felt voting for a player who basically said that any further votes on him should not be scrutinised? Extremely hesitant. How can a town-aligned player actually make a vote on **OaOW** at this stage in the Day and after the way he has played without looking like an opportunistic scum? Pretty much impossible but I think it’s the best place for my vote. Should I vote for someone else and avoid having this exact discussion? I’m not afraid of heat. Should I simply not vote or make another one-off? That would be anti-town under the circumstances. Or should I do what I think is in the best interests of town but make it clear that I certainly don’t expect to cleared of suspicion and think that his ploy only helps scum? Yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=44)