# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1141 "2010-04-13T20:33:27Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Thank you, Oredigger, for simplifying my life considerably. I’ve already been considering doing this, and now I can out scum in the bargain.\*\*\*\* Is that your full PM? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1142 "2010-04-13T20:37:04Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Because I’m a glutton for punishment, I’m going to hazard a guess that what Meeko means here: > > is that he thinks such a claim could be convenient cover for a scum who is actually not going to be killed because he’s scum, not because he’s pro-town and self protecting. Similar to his frustrations with my Mason claim on behalf of myself and Texcat. Until someone dies, there’s nothing concrete. > > Am I right? Do I get a prize??? If that’s the case, then the only way that works is if we don’t have a doctor at all and we have two Scum false-claiming Doc! Because if Digger comes up Doc, Rysto clearly dies tomorrow. And if Digger is Scum, then the only way that Rysto lives is if we don’t have a doctor to counterclaim HIM. So Rysto saying that he’s going to self-protect all the way home means dick-all after Digger flips. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1143 "2010-04-13T20:40:14Z")
Also, how does one do auto spell-check on this board? I attempted to make a reply and do it myself, just to test Digger’s latest claim, but I couldn’t figure out how to enable it. On other boards I post at, it’s a clickable box at the bottom of the page. That box doesn’t appear for me here. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1144 "2010-04-13T20:51:59Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Am I right? Do I get a prize??? I took it that he means that if a doctor self protects every Night, he’ll never lose and town will win. But I must be wrong about him thinking that. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1145 "2010-04-13T21:01:40Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > is that he thinks such a claim could be convenient cover for a scum who is actually not going to be killed because he’s scum, not because he’s pro-town and self protecting. Similar to his frustrations with my Mason claim on behalf of myself and Texcat. Until someone dies, there’s nothing concrete. I don’t see why that would cause Meeko to proclaim this game broken. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Is that your full PM? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1146 "2010-04-13T21:40:00Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Yeah, so Meeko just shot right up to second on my list. You sound pretty upset to learn that there’s a townie you can’t get rid of, Meeko. No. I’m upset that No one cares what I do in this, or in any other game. I could say that Mary had a little lamb, and no one would even quote it. At least that is where I am currently. This Game, capital G, is broken because it can only work if Town plays as a team. This game has confirmed previous games. There is no guarantee town will do what is best for town, even when there is a flashing neon sign. This direct game is broken because We have one player who pretty much is going to barricade off one corner of the game and sit the coming Nuclear Holocaust out, while the rest of town suffers. We have another player, who if she is Town, pretty much admitted that would rather be less informed over being fully informed, and could care less what other town members do. Scum on a good day can screw Town. Once Town starts screwing town 24/7 we stand no chance. a Selfish Doctor and players who admit to skimming are why this game is broken No wonder people are burnned on Mafia. Too much personal ego shit. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1147 "2010-04-13T21:45:11Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Am I right? Do I get a prize??? Nope. See my above. Town needs to play as a team. Only then do we stand a chance against scum. It’s one thing to self protect every single night. But do you have to tell the entire game? **There is a LOT of bad thinking** in Mafia, everything from selfish power roles to scum busing scum for town cred. Frankly, Mafia requires a certain level of intelligence. I assumed that everyone who played had it. I wonder now if anyone has it. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1148 "2010-04-13T21:48:05Z")
No prize ☹ I just have to say that I’m wistful and nostalgic for the days when the concept of a self-protecting doctor wasn’t somehow a sign of our pending doom. It is a perfectly viable strategy, and one that is usually mitigated by giving the scum tools with which to dismantle it, like a roleblocker. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1149 "2010-04-13T21:51:11Z")
Scum-bussing scum is bad thinking? Not if it works… ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1150 "2010-04-13T21:56:48Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > is that he thinks such a claim could be convenient cover for a scum who is actually not going to be killed because he’s scum, not because he’s pro-town and self protecting. Similar to his frustrations with my Mason claim on behalf of myself and Texcat. Until someone dies, there’s nothing concrete. 1. In general Interesting point here Cookies. I agree there is space here to move for scum to say “I am Doctor, and I am going to hoard my power all to myself, my precious!” 1b.Which kinda in turn becomes a dare to the rest of Town “I dare you to vote me, because that is going to be the only way to kill me. And if you dare to lynch someone who has “claimed” doctor, then we can turn a wagon on you so fast…” 1c. One wonders if there isn’t a Scum Doctor. * * * 1. But Then again, this was NOT my original stance on it, Cookies. 2b. Could Cookies be trying to put words in my mouth for later? 2c. Is Cookies trying to send a message out to someone? * * * 1. if Rysto is Scum, how do we go about lynching him in a way that doesn’t make each of us wagon bait for other scum? * * * Would seem that the vote is down to two people. A Claim and a Counter Claim. I’ve been busy with other parts of the game that I didn’t realize this. Vote forthcoming. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1151 "2010-04-13T21:57:58Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Scum-bussing scum is bad thinking? Not if it works… It’s sub optimal. It sacrifices long term for short term, with no guarantee that it will solidify victory. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1152 "2010-04-13T22:10:58Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > 1. if Rysto is Scum, how do we go about lynching him in a way that doesn’t make each of us wagon bait for other scum? The obvious way is when I come up town to lynch him and then look at the people who voted for him toDay. I’m pretty obviously dead so the scum have no reason to jump on my wagon instead they can build cred by voting for Rysto. I think toDay will give a lot of information and I should be albe to get one scum for sure toMorrow and then you guys should be able to data mine for probably one more from toDay’s voting. I’ll try and get a look in on Rysto toDay since he thinks that he’s been growing on the scum radar he must have been making some keen observations but I hadn’t noticed him seeing to what I consider the heart of the matter so far. Oh, Drain I spell check my posts in Word no through Explorer. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1153 "2010-04-13T22:25:03Z")
\*\*Vote Rysto. \*\* I don’t really like either claim. However, I think the entire exchange is WIFOM / Scum would never do that. Rysto comes on with the “I am going to self protect for the rest of the game” and I think that it’s a dare at least, hubris at best. It boils down to something I can’t put my finger on. It’s close to the same “gut feeling” as others have said for Digger. Yet, in a few games that I have played in, I have made a move that wasn’t predictable. I make that move, and later retract it. Those types of moves that I am talking about, usually net scum, before I take them back. Let’s hope this is one of those moves, sans the taking it back part\*. - Not against taking it back, but I’m not sure what it would take to get me to move off of it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1154 "2010-04-13T22:40:37Z")
Right. Only way I can see **Rysto** being scum is if we’re at LyLo, which would imply a 6 person scum team (or maybe a scum politician or some other outre weirdness), in which case I would want to have some words with **sach** about how he balanced the game. As far as **Red’s** speculation, even if the Scum were willing to trade one of their own to get rid of the doc, why would they give up a Scum who has thus far received only a single, solitary Day 1 vote and a bit of pressure from one other player? (Plus Meeko’s vote now, but that comes after the claim). Obviously, if Digger somehow flips Town Doctor, I’ll have to reevaluate, but I certainly see no reason to shift my vote now. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1155 "2010-04-13T22:48:30Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I guess I have no choice at this point. Unfortunately, I am guilty of almost everything I’ve been accused of. I’ve been trying to lay low enough to avoid a Night kill but contribute enough to avoid a lynch. I did type my claim and managed to include a typo that I thought for sure the scum would pick up. So I’ve been self protecting so far. That’s right I’m; If you were Town and you were self-protecting, wouldn’t you actually want to be the Scum kill target? I can see trying to avoid a NK. I can see self-protecting. But to have the thought to do both doesn’t really make sense, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1156 "2010-04-13T23:54:59Z")
**ed** , I couldn’t articulate what pinged me about that post until you said it. A tangentially related point is that if **Digger** made the typo on purpose, which he may or may not be implying there, with the point of the Scum noticing it, we probably should have had a no-kill Night at some point. Even if he didn’t make the typo on purpose, if the Scum saw it, they should have attempted to kill him. So we can assume one of three things. Either the Scum didn’t notice the typo, or they noticed it but decided it was meaningless, or Digger is Scum and covering his ass. The first is unlikely (no doubt Scum were poring over the claims with a fine toothed comb to decide who to kill), the second highly improbable (if I were Scum and found a typo in the claim of a player I knew to be Town, I’d be on it like white on rice). The third seems to be the most likely of all. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1157 "2010-04-14T00:04:11Z")
First of all, I’m a lot less suspicious of Meeko in light of his response to me above. First of all, if he were scum it would have been very easy for him to take the out that Cookies offer him. Secondly, my first impression upon reading his response was that he was using the term “broken” in a way that was consistent with his usage in Crimson Glyph and Cecil Pond. However, now I can’t remember _why_ I had that impression. I’m going to defer that question until a time when I’m not half-asleep. Next, look sach, red! **Day One** **peekercpa** (4): [del]Zeriel 151 190[/del], [del] **TexCat** 314 356[/del], **Chronos** 360, Meeko 383, **Freudian Slit** 478, Mahaloth 482 **KellyCriterion** (3): **NAF1138** 313, **Jimmy Chitwood** 484, Tom Scud 571 **Chronos** (3): [del]\*\*\*\*[color=green]storyteller0910\*\*[/color]\*\* 416 564[/del], **peekercpa** 450, **storyteller0910** 590, MHaye 591 Drain Bead (2): Zeriel 560, special ed 565 **TexCat** (1): Red Skeezix 316, [del]Tom Scud 328 571[/del], [del] **peekercpa** 346 450[/del] **Oredigger77** (1): Drain Bead 347 Red Skeezix (1): **TexCat** 356, [del] **Freudian Slit** 364 478[/del] Zeriel (1): [del] **storyteller0910** 564 567[/del], **One And Only Wanderers** 570 Rysto (1): GuiriEnEspaña 576 **Freudian Slit** (1): Rysto 577 **NAF1138** (0): [del] **One And Only Wanderers** 179 288[/del], [del] **KellyCriterion** 242 244[/del] **storyteller0910** (0): [del] **peekercpa** 116 201[/del] **One And Only Wanderers** (0): [del] **Chronos** 180 360[/del], [del] **Jimmy Chitwood** 184[/del], [del]Meeko 220 291[/del] Mahaloth (0): [del]Meeko 291 298[/del] Not Voting (2) : **KellyCriterion** , **Oredigger77** **Day Two** **One And Only Wanderers** (8): **Jimmy Chitwood** 757, **Oredigger77** 760, **Freudian Slit** 763, Mahaloth 815, GuiriEnEspaña 855, Drain Bead 865, Zeriel 874, **Chronos** 882 **Freudian Slit** (8): Rysto 655, Meeko 666, Tom Scud 783, Red Skeezix 835, special ed 861, OAOW 871, **TexCat** 880, MHaye 885 Mahaloth (1): **storyteller0910** 833 **Jimmy Chitwood** (0): [del]Oredigger 717 734[/del], [del] **One And Only Wanderers** 751 871[/del], [del] **TexCat** 795 880[/del] Drain Bead (0): [del]Zeriel 715 874[/del] GuiriEnEspaña (0): [del] **Chronos** 803 882[/del] **TexCat** (0): [del]Tom Scud 706 783[/del] Tom Scud (0): [del]Mahaloth 787 815[/del] Meeko (0): [del] **Freudian Slit** 651 763[/del] **Day Three** **Chronos** (7): [del]special ed 924 995[/del], Red Skeezix 974, Drain Bead 984, **Oredigger77** 990, GuiriEnEspaña 1000, Tom Scud 1002, Rysto 1005, **Jimmy Chitwood** 1004 Tom Scud (4): Mahaloth 931, Zeriel 954, **Chronos** 971, **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** 986, [del] **Jimmy Chitwood** 1004 1013[/del] **Oredigger77** (2): special ed 995, MHaye 1015 **Jimmy Chitwood** (1): **TexCat** 941 **TexCat** (1): [del]Tom Scud 969 1002[/del], Meeko 982 I realize that from everyone else’s perspective Oredigger is not confirmed scum, but I’m really starting to get into this game and it looks as though the rest of this Day is likely to be on autopilot. Besides, I’m excited to be able to put some red on this vote chart. The first thing that jumps out at me are the votes for Oredigger. Drain Bead’s Day One vote came relatively early in Day One: > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > And I think it’s interesting how many people assumed it was a slip. Honestly, has anyone here ever played in a game (especially one that purports to be “newbie friendly”) where the Scum didn’t know who one another were when the game started? That’s all that **Meeko** was saying–that the Scum got the names of the other Scum in their role PM. I suppose it’s not a 100% certainty, but it’s as close to certain info as any random Town player is going to have at the start of the Day. I can see how maybe, MAYBE, you can misinterpret his second statement to construe that the Scum know what one another’s roles are, but I think it’s more likely that the plural construction was used to avoid the awkward “he or she” sort of thing. And even then, I think in a lot of cases the Scum DO know what one another’s roles are at first–I am pretty sure that the only game I’ve ever played in where I was Scum and didn’t know what roles the other Scum had until Night 1 was Colorless. So all in all, I don’t think **Meeko** was doing anything wrong there. > > Not to mention our discussions over the last few games that people who call other people out on supposed PIS slips are more frequently Scum (e.g. Rysto in Cecil Pond). I think I’m comfortable at this point voting for you, and if the last few games are any example, I’ll quickly pick up a few votes for this and end up having been right about it the whole time. > > **vote Oredigger** I’m inclined to give Drain pro-Town points for this one. The peeker bandwagon hadn’t really started yet. Drain did miss Oredigger’s point – she basically got his post backwards – but the reasoning here seems honest. This doesn’t clear Drain of being scum in my mind, but it is a point in her favour. The point that Oredigger raised against Meeko is pretty interesting, too: > [@Oredigger77](#): > > I’m kind of curious why OAOW got so many votes for picking up on the spelling error but Meeko dropped what appeared to be PIS and got a pass. Personally I read his original post about the scum knowing all about each other and I thought it was a slip. Of course it’s been explained now but I think it’s interesting that it was ignored. I find it very interesting that Oredigger was trying to direct attention right back at Meeko after he explained the “PIS” that really wasn’t PIS at all. That’s a big point in Meeko’s favour. I don’t think it likely that scum would have directed attention at fellow scum Day One, before the scum had the opportunity to talk at all(as per [the rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12242400#post12242400)) Of the Day Three voters, it’s harder to say. Oredigger’s vote for Chronos came late enough in the Day that it would have been tough for a bandwagon to form against him. special ed basically jumped on him right away, so he gets credit for that. MHaye voted at very nearly the last minute, after a Chronos lynch was assured. MHaye gets no credit for that vote. Some random thoughts that I have rattling around in my head that I need to come back to when I’m awake enough to think about them: 1. Oredigger made a really poorly supported vote for Chronos over Tom Scud. What does this mean for Tom? Tom needs closer attention. 2. It feels to me as though this Oredigger bandwagon has been rolling on pretty much unopposed since the start of the Day. I need to go back through the Day to see if anybody has tried to get things going in a different direction. Also this needs to be considered when trying to figure out 1). 3. MHaye’s late, useless vote may have been an attempt at Townie cred. I need to review MHaye’s history in this game ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1158 "2010-04-14T00:04:58Z")
I still need to do my re-read on Rysto and Ore once I stop pretending to work, but I certainly agree that statement the Ed points out is dubious as all hell. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1159 "2010-04-14T00:16:12Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > _snip_ I just wanted to remind myself about the time Drain complained that I didn’t find her suspicious earlier. That with her one-off vote (which I recall being a tactic she used as Scum, I’ll have to investigate) has her pinging my scumdar now ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1160 "2010-04-14T00:19:34Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > And I think it’s interesting how many people assumed it was a slip. Honestly, has anyone here ever played in a game (especially one that purports to be “newbie friendly”) where the Scum didn’t know who one another were when the game started? That’s all that **Meeko** was saying–that the Scum got the names of the other Scum in their role PM. I suppose it’s not a 100% certainty, but it’s as close to certain info as any random Town player is going to have at the start of the Day. I can see how maybe, MAYBE, you can misinterpret his second statement to construe that the Scum know what one another’s roles are, but I think it’s more likely that the plural construction was used to avoid the awkward “he or she” sort of thing. And even then, I think in a lot of cases the Scum DO know what one another’s roles are at first–I am pretty sure that the only game I’ve ever played in where I was Scum and didn’t know what roles the other Scum had until Night 1 was Colorless. So all in all, I don’t think **Meeko** was doing anything wrong there. > > Not to mention our discussions over the last few games that people who call other people out on supposed PIS slips are more frequently Scum (e.g. Rysto in Cecil Pond). I think I’m comfortable at this point voting for you, and if the last few games are any example, I’ll quickly pick up a few votes for this and end up having been right about it the whole time. > > **vote Oredigger** > > 😕 Here’s her one-off vote, which, I guess, doesn’t ping me at all. I forgot the other thing that brought her to the top of my consciousness was her pointing out my interactions with Meeko. It just strikes me as something a Scum might want to do. Now, all this is just pinging, I really do need to go have a serious re-read at some point. But let’s see if there’s a reaction 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=59)