# Random Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942 "2010-03-18T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1621 "2010-05-06T20:53:01Z")
As long as we’re responding to the spoiled thread here, story pm’d me to ask me if I was faking my flame-out for strategic reasons. Here’s my response: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by storyteller0910 > So just between the dead and the soon-to-be dead - are you really as frustrated as you appear to be? Or were you gilding the lily a bit in order to give posthumous cover to your team-mates? > > (I’m fully spoiled, at this point, so don’t worry about revealing anything. And I do understand if you’d rather not answer). But I’m dying to know. That’s slightly complicated. I was really frustrated. But part of the reason I was really frustrated was that it very much looked like I might have saved myself at the expense of Mahaloth (and oh by the way Guiri has become a very very good player); if I intended to play to win, it would then involve at least two (and probably more) additional weeks of probably feeling like complete crap at least one day a week, and I didn’t want to commit to that. I probably would have sucked it up if I thought we could get a mislynch and go for the win next week. I had considered making a deliberate slip about Oredigger being the Godfather in my response to Drain (something like “oh when you vote for the Godfather in turn 1 you’re Townie, but when I find some damning evidence by spending a solid hour rereading posts I’m clearly scum”), and in retrospect probably should have. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1622 "2010-05-06T20:54:55Z")
I wanted to protect story Night One but couldn’t because he was fictional. That was the real reason why I brought up the mass claim idea, by the way. I wanted to know who my power would work on. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1623 "2010-05-06T20:59:04Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > You just hope Peeker or I don’t get the vig role any time soon. > > Well, ok, at least when I did it, I only had one bullet in my gun. > > Sorry Peeks. no probs. i’ve got a hair trigger and can become single minded. i know this and continue to work on it. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1624 "2010-05-06T21:00:02Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > damn. > > I was right. dead right. > > oh well, very interesting game, Mods. > > I, for one, am not as upset about the no reveals. > > I am curious though, why were they modkilled? They had each voted that Day. What was the criterion and did Red and mahaloth meet it each Day? MHaye was modkilled for lack of participation. I don’t recall the details but he essentially had 2 posts on one day then 1 post the following day. DEAD. Zeriel was modkilled for lack of participation. While he had more than 2 posts on the day he died, most were not game-related. Of the mod-kills, Zeriel is the one I was most iffy about, but I felt that if I was taking out MHaye, I needed to take out Zeriel for essentially the same reason. Red Skeezix could arguably have been modkilled as well. Different people have different opinions on non-participation. As someone who falls into the over-participation category, I get moody about non-participation. Some moderators put the task of dealing with non-participation on the players, but I’m not sure if that is a good solution. My personal opinion is that if the game is going to be determined by who doesn’t participate then the game suffers. Mod-kill at least determines the game in favor of those that participate and punishes those that do not. At least that was the theory. In practice, the swing involved in mod-kill gets in the way. If I could do it again, I probably would mod-kill Red Skeezix for his lack of participation. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1625 "2010-05-06T21:06:41Z")
To be fair, if you had modkilled Skeezix for lack of participation, you probably should have modkilled me, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1626 "2010-05-06T21:07:46Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > I couldn’t self-protect. That was a total bluff. > . Shoot. This, I thought, was my most awesome move. My last minute move to kill you was, I thought, what saved us. I had no idea it was a lock to work. > [@special\_ed](#): > > I am curious though, why were they modkilled? They had each voted that Day. What was the criterion and did Red and mahaloth meet it each Day? I agree. It could be a scum tactic to lay very low. I was pissed we lost MHaye. I thought we were going to lose for it. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I can’t believe **Mahaloth** got away with his “but I voted **Tom** 3 days in a row” ploy. A perfect example of forcing Town cred for bussing. No, it wasn’t. I was totally after Kelly in the last game and when he did get lynched, I was proven right\* and I\* was town. I was dead already, but it was very similar. I had my vote on him for Days and I would have wanted credit for finding him if I had lived to see him lynched. Here is what I did as scum, in my opinion. I’d love to know what others think(the other scum, that is). I like being able to review.: 1. Pushed to Night-kill a lot of the best players early. I figured it was very transparent, but I liked that idea. I was up for killing Ed earlier in the game. We probably should have. He nearly had us. 2. Also try to Night-kill people after me, which again, would be very transparent, but I liked that. 3. Voting Tom and using Tom’s own case against him, which you can read(written by him) on the scum board. 4. Made the move to kill Rysto, assuming he had protected Cookies, our confirmed player. I see now that was no big deal, but there it is. Then again, it did save us, as he did protect Cookies, right? Most other stuff I did, like when I forgot about Rysto and Cookies being confirmed was all mistakes. **Red** , when you said that you would be here today to make a solidarity vote, were you trying to hint to me that you would be available to move votes if necessary at the end of the game? I read it that way, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1627 "2010-05-06T21:10:00Z")
This is why I set a hard objective criterion for what constituted “inactivity” in Cecil Pond. I didn’t want to put myself into a position where a judgment call on my part would make a significant difference to the outcome, since I don’t trust my own impartiality. And while I think that there’s a place for kill-without-reveal (obviously, given that I had such a mechanic in Pond, too), I don’t think a modkill is it. It just punishes the folks who are still playing, but doesn’t really affect someone who’s decided not to bother with the game (since they are, after all, not bothering with the game). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1628 "2010-05-06T21:11:15Z")
So, amrussel was wrong in the spoiler board, right? Tom’s flameout was unrelated to our bussing him. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1629 "2010-05-06T21:12:31Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Ok mods, time for your time in the hot seat here with me. How in the heck was the handling of Zeriel and Mhaye not a kick in the crotch to Town? It’s in the rules. Clearly stated. One could argue that the rule should be removed for future games, but it was included in the rules from the very beginning of the game, so the lack of reveal wasn’t something out of nowhere. In terms of win-condition. The Mod-kill was a huge help to Town. So much so that I was worried that it broke the game. Storyteller pointed out that the set of unknowns was getting smaller, and Zeriel was an UNKNOWN. In other words the pool in which scum had to hide was very small. At the time Guiri had all the scum identified. No one listened to her. Furthermore, no one looked at what she had said after she died. IMO, the reason why town lost is because Town was talking (scummy!) and Scum was silent (safe), which is irritating but true. I also fully accept the criticism that Red should have been modkilled. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1630 "2010-05-06T21:14:32Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > **Red** , when you said that you would be here today to make a solidarity vote, were you trying to hint to me that you would be available to move votes if necessary at the end of the game? I read it that way, anyway. Yeah, and I was trying to suck up to cookies a bit. I wanted to make sure that if we needed to block lynch that I would be around (Even if I did move to you in the early part of the day) ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1631 "2010-05-06T21:15:01Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Red had a lot of posts which really weren’t significant. Day 3 had 1 post after Day 2 had only 1 significant post. And Night 2 and Night 3 had no posts I didn’t count nights. Red did pop onto my radar after the modkills of MHaye and Zeriel. If you look at the spoiled board I even expressed the feeling that I should modkill him. I didn’t and I regret it. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1632 "2010-05-06T21:17:23Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I think the lower content and lower participation from the Scum puts blinders on the Town. Town players who post a lot do suspicous things. This is exactly what happened. Before my vacation I noted that Town were all arguing: Meeko, Ed, Drain. Cookies and Rysto were confirmed. Scum were nearly silent. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1633 "2010-05-06T21:20:09Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Honestly though, lurking is a strategy, period. It’s why I ride on lurkers and low posters hard in games where I’m town. Im not on totally on board with mod killing players who are not 100% absent, but it’s sach’s game so it’s his rules I guess. The rule exists because lurking as a strategy isn’t fair to the other players. People invest time and energy into the game and if someone is going to intentionally not participate as a strategy to win, then the game devolves into something not worth playing. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1634 "2010-05-06T21:25:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It just punishes the folks who are still playing, but doesn’t really affect someone who’s decided not to bother with the game (since they are, after all, not bothering with the game). Does it help that Zeriel and MHaye were removed from the game and therefore MHaye did not win? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1635 "2010-05-06T21:28:04Z")
Like I said, if I’d known that 2 players were about to be beamed out of the game that I would already have to be digging myself out of, I probably wouldn’t have subbed in. Making sure to read the rules isn’t really something I prioritize until after I’ve agreed to be in the game. Looks like that will have to change now. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1636 "2010-05-06T21:29:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This is why I set a hard objective criterion for what constituted “inactivity” in Cecil Pond. I didn’t want to put myself into a position where a judgment call on my part would make a significant difference to the outcome, since I don’t trust my own impartiality. I’ve done that in the past: “three substantive posts.” But do you know what happened? People just made sure they made 3 pithy but game-related posts. I allowed it to be more subjective this time to remove such gaming. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1637 "2010-05-06T21:31:59Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Like I said, if I’d known that 2 players were about to be beamed out of the game that I would already have to be digging myself out of, I probably wouldn’t have subbed in. Making sure to read the rules isn’t really something I prioritize until after I’ve agreed to be in the game. Looks like that will have to change now. I’m sorry that the mod-kills ruined your experience. Thank you for substituting. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1638 "2010-05-06T21:40:44Z")
Oh and a big thanks to ShadowFacts for helping with moderating duties. And Thanks to storyteller for hosting the spoiler board (after he died). I didn’t want to put the spoiler board on the same site as the scum talk, so we went without for weeks. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1639 "2010-05-06T21:43:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Second, on Townies hanging their votes on **Cookies** this past Day: That, too, was essential. At LyLo, the Town needs to be unanimous, or the Scum can flip the vote at the last minute, and if the unconfirmed Town don’t all follow the lone confirmed, they won’t be unanimous. That said, though, that doesn’t remove responsibility from all the other folks: What they should have been doing was making the best cases they could for whomever they were most suspicious of, and urging **Cookies** to follow their suggestions, and I didn’t see enough of that. I disagree. I think Drain and I both made our cases and did our best to convince Cookies. She just trusted her gut and Red. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1640 "2010-05-06T21:46:04Z")
I agree with ed - I think Town played the last Day rather well, even if they ended up with a bad conclusion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942.md?page=83)