# Randy Johnson has a perfect game against the Braves **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886 "2004-05-19T01:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/21 "2004-05-20T00:12:57Z")
Perfect games are exciting for everyone involved and present. I saw Dennis MArtinez throw a perfect game to beat my Dodgers in Dodger stadium. By the 7th inning, everyone in the stadium was rooting for him. Great to see something so rare. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/22 "2004-05-20T00:35:21Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Question: If Roger, Randy and Greg retire at the same time, will that be the greatest Hall of Fame pitching class ever inducted? Answer: Yes. No other induction class has had more than two all-time great pitchers in it. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/23 "2004-05-20T00:42:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not much doubt of that, with a career winning percentage over 66%, an ERA of 3.10. and _five Cy Youngs._ He’s a mortal lock. I agree. I hope the Hall of Fame voters do as well. The one thing that the Big Unit does _not_ have is a career win total that’s in the “shoo-in” range. As of yesterday, he has 234 wins. If the Hall voters do as they should, and look at his dominance from a rate statistics standpoint, he’s a lock. If they do as they have done in the past, and look only at one dimension (wins), he might not make it. Which would be a huge injustice. So, I hope he makes it. To count on him making it would be to count in the judgment of the Hall voters, which is a dangerous thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/24 "2004-05-20T01:10:02Z")
I was running around last night telling everybody who would listen about this! I’ve been a Big Unit fan since '92, when I first started following baseball. I have two copies of his rookie card, too 😉 I got to see him pitch once in Seattle - from directly behind home plate, three rows back. Couldn’t even see the ball coming toward the plate! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/25 "2004-05-20T01:40:12Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > I agree. I hope the Hall of Fame voters do as well. The one thing that the Big Unit does _not_ have is a career win total that’s in the “shoo-in” range. As of yesterday, he has 234 wins. > > If the Hall voters do as they should, and look at his dominance from a rate statistics standpoint, he’s a lock. If they do as they have done in the past, and look only at one dimension (wins), he might not make it. Which would be a huge injustice. > > So, I hope he makes it. To count on him making it would be to count in the judgment of the Hall voters, which is a dangerous thing. 🙂 I disagree. Five Cy Youngs make him an absolute, 100% lock for the first ballot. You can take that to the bank. Johnson had a few off-years due to injuries, and it took him awhile to really get going at the start of his career. But if you compare him to Hall of Famers Sandy Koufax (167-87, .655 winning percentage) or Dizzy Dean (150-83, .644 winning percentage), each of whom had only 5 or 6 good years (although those were spectacular), you see that that’s enough. And Randy has much more than that. 300 wins will get a pitcher in, even with few or no spectacular years. But 230+ is plenty for someone who’s had as many great years as Randy. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/26 "2004-05-20T02:09:18Z")
And remember he started his career with Montreal and pre-1995 Seattle. That partly explains the win total. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/27 "2004-05-20T02:09:34Z")
**Colibri** , I don’t think we’re really disagreeing – we both think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. I’m just a bit nervous about the HoF voters, and you’re (apparently) not. Which is fine by me – I’d love to be reassured. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/28 "2004-05-20T03:40:46Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Answer: Yes. No other induction class has had more than two all-time great pitchers in it. What about 1936? ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/29 "2004-05-20T03:57:55Z")
> [@Opus1](#): > > What about 1936? 1936 was the first year of induction, which you probably knew. The pitchers inducted were Walter Johnson and Christy Matthewson. Also inducted were Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, and Honus Wagner. Cy Young was inducted in 1937. So it might have been the best two pitchers ever, but there were only two pitchers. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/30 "2004-05-20T04:04:43Z")
I see that 1972 had Lefty Gomez, Early Wynn, and Sandy Koufax. Add Yogi Berra to the mix and you have a pretty good battery. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/31 "2004-05-20T04:57:35Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > I see that 1972 had Lefty Gomez, Early Wynn, and Sandy Koufax. Add Yogi Berra to the mix and you have a pretty good battery. I agree, but I wouldn’t rank Gomez and Wynn within 20 places of Johnson, Maddux or Clemens on the all-time greats list. Gomez, is, according to most analyses I have read, a borderline HOFer, and Wynn has the 300 wins and that’s about it. I think Clemens is top 5 all time, Maddux top 15 and Johnson top 25. I would place Wynn somewhere in the 50s and Gomez down in the 80s or 90s. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/32 "2004-05-20T05:01:09Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > I agree. I hope the Hall of Fame voters do as well. The one thing that the Big Unit does _not_ have is a career win total that’s in the “shoo-in” range. As of yesterday, he has 234 wins. > > If the Hall voters do as they should, and look at his dominance from a rate statistics standpoint, he’s a lock. If they do as they have done in the past, and look only at one dimension (wins), he might not make it. Which would be a huge injustice. HoF voters have historically been quick to induct pitchers with low win totals if, like Johnson, they had unusually low numbers of losses. I don’t see any evidence at all that the Hall of Fame only inducts pitchers with high win totals. Among starting pitchers in the Hall of Fame, you have: Sandy Koufax 165-87 Dizzy Dean 150-80 Don Drysdale 209-166 Lefty Gomez 189-102 Catfish Hunter 224-166 Juan Marichal 243-142 Whitey Ford 236-106 Jim Bunning 224-184 Randy Johnson: 234-118 Why would they elect Marichal but not Johnson? Johnson is clearly a better candidate; 5 Cy Youngs, a World Series ring, and he never brained anyone with a bat. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell they don’t sweep him in in Year 1. Johnson also has an unusually impressive peak, with the four straight Cy Youngs and all that. He’s a power pitcher, and such pitchers do well in voting, and a visible and popular star. And at 230 wins he really doesn’t have a low total. He’s still pitching well and has a very good shot at getting over 250. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/33 "2004-05-20T06:16:43Z")
Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Greg Maddux will make the Hall of Fame unless they are caught engaging in Pete Rose-like behavior, which I think is pretty remote. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/34 "2004-05-20T07:06:52Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Question: If Roger, Randy and Greg retire at the same time, will that be the greatest Hall of Fame pitching class ever inducted? It’s at least plausible that Glavine will retire at the same time as those 3, though one never knows. He’s got two Cy Youngs, a World Series MVP ('95), career marks of 256-159 with a 3.41 ERA. Maddux has about 36 more wins and a lower career ERA, not to mention 4 Cy Youngs and all those Gold Gloves, though how much import the Hall will give those I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/35 "2004-05-20T08:22:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > HoF voters have historically been quick to induct pitchers with low win totals if, like Johnson, they had unusually low numbers of losses. And Bert Blyleven (287 wins) and Jack Morris (254) aren’t in. Johnson’s win percentage of almost exactly .667 is better than everyone on that list except Ford, and only Ford is farther over .500. His career numbers are incredible. He’ll finish with more than 4000 Ks (4th all-time at the lowest), along with the five Cy Youngs and a career ERA of 3.09. For a decade, he was the most feared pitcher in baseball and was as dominant as could be. 1993: 19-8, 3.24 ERA, 308 K 1994: 13-6, 3.19, 204 1995: 18-2, 2.48, 294 [1996: 5-0, 3.67, 85] 1997: 20-4, 2.28, 291 1998: 19-11, 3.28, 329 [combined Seattle/Houston] 1999: 17-9, 2.48, 364 2000: 19-7, 2.64, 347 2001: 21-6, 2.49, 372 2002: 24-5, 2.32, 334 He won 75% of his games! An average year (minus '96) would’ve been 17-6 with an ERA around 3 and 318 strikeouts. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/36 "2004-05-20T12:11:39Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > It’s at least plausible that Glavine will retire at the same time as those 3, though one never knows. He’s got two Cy Youngs, a World Series MVP ('95), career marks of 256-159 with a 3.41 ERA. Maddux has about 36 more wins and a lower career ERA, not to mention 4 Cy Youngs and all those Gold Gloves, though how much import the Hall will give those I dunno. Jim Kaat has 11 or 12 gold gloves and isn’t in the HOF. ---
**Author:** ![carterba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@carterba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carterba)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/37 "2004-05-20T14:39:06Z")
HOF voters seem to err on the side of letting _too many_ players in, not keeping clearly deserving candidates out. I don’t think there’s anyone on the list of “best players not in the HOF” that’s a clear slam-dunk\* like Randy Johnson is. \*Pete Rose and Joe Jackson should not be in the HOF. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886/38 "2004-05-20T18:07:36Z")
Okay, guys, I’ll stop worrying. Hes a mortal lock. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/randy-johnson-has-a-perfect-game-against-the-braves/245886.md?page=1)