# Rank Hypocrisy over Guantanamo **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2014, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754 "2014-06-01T06:18:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/21 "2014-06-01T11:05:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’d _prefer_ a system in which the US can legally detain them indefinitely? No. I would prefer a system where kidnapping and torture were outlawed for all states, especially those claiming to support the rule of law. The people left in Guantanamo are either identified members of the upper cadres of Al Qaeda or the Taliban, or innocents or footsoldiers swept up for bounties. If the US can decide that releasing 5 dangerous senior terrorists to be delayed one year before returning to terrorism is the price of one American life, then surely the foot soldiers and innocents should be freed immediately. The 5 men freed to save one American GI will next year be back in the senior structure of the Taliban. If the lesser people were freed, I doubt they would do as much potential damage as that that WILL occur from the release of these men. I call hypocrisy of the highest order. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/22 "2014-06-01T11:22:32Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > No. I would prefer a system where kidnapping and torture were outlawed for all states, especially those claiming to support the rule of law. “Kidnapping and torture” and “the rule of law” are not mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/23 "2014-06-01T11:23:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You do realize that, under the Geneva Conventions, the US is completely within its right to hold military captives up until the cessation of hostilities, right? That is an interesting question. Does the US still hold North Korean prisoners? How about North Vietnamese captives? Iraqis? ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/24 "2014-06-01T11:26:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Kidnapping and torture” and “the rule of law” are not mutually exclusive. That may be true in many countries but not in Britain, the USA and quite a number of other places. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/25 "2014-06-01T11:32:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Kidnapping and torture” and “the rule of law” are not mutually exclusive. But they should be if the law says that torture and kidnap is wrong (but not when it is done on quasi Us territory.) If Guantanamo was sovereign territory SCOTUS would have torn it down. the Rule of Law is more than the letter, it is judged by the spirit. Currently the USA is sub prime on the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/26 "2014-06-01T11:34:23Z")
The topic is not Guantanamo. It is hypocrisy. Anyone want to defend releasing five dangerous terrorist to save the grunts life by continuing to detain a Brit with no evidence against him? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/27 "2014-06-01T11:36:04Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > If Guantanamo was sovereign territory SCOTUS would have torn it down. The legality of Guantanamo is not based on where it is. It’s based on who the prisoners are. The US detained thousands of German captives on US soil for years during WWII. These are not people who have been arrested for a crime. You can put people on trial for that. You can’t put an enemy soldier on trial for being an enemy soldier - _that_ is against the Geneva Convention and the rule of law that you care so much about when you can twist in such a way that America = Bad. What you _can_ do, 100% legally, under the laws of the US and the Geneva Convention, is detain them indefinitely or until the end of hostilities, whichever comes first, and then release them to their homeland. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/28 "2014-06-01T11:37:05Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The topic is not Guantanamo. It is hypocrisy. > > Anyone want to defend releasing five dangerous terrorist to save the grunts life by continuing to detain a Brit with no evidence against him? Yes. Nobody has offered us anything worth releasing the Brit for. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/29 "2014-06-01T11:38:05Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > That is an interesting question. Does the US still hold North Korean prisoners? How about North Vietnamese captives? Iraqis? The US is no longer engaged in hostilities with the latter two. As to the first, it would be within its right to have done so. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/30 "2014-06-01T11:41:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The US is no longer engaged in hostilities with the latter two. > > As to the first, it would be within its right to have done so. Why not start your own thread rather than spamming this one with irrelevancies? Go and start one and leave this to discuss the moral hypocrisy of releasing terrorists for political gain. As to your suggestion- when you have opened your own thread, perhaps you will answer whether ion withdrawal from Afghanistan next year, all Taliban must be released. But please do not continue your spam here. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/31 "2014-06-01T11:48:04Z")
Let’s leave the modding to the moderators, Pjen. The ‘Report a Post’ button is there for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/32 "2014-06-01T12:02:35Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Let’s leave the modding to the moderators, Pjen. The ‘Report a Post’ button is there for a reason. This has happened before with Smapti and one of my threads- doesn’t like the tenor of a post so diverts it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/33 "2014-06-01T12:16:13Z")
So are you arguing they should release Aamer? Or are you arguing they shouldn’t have released Fazl, Khairkhwa, Nabi, Nori, and Wasiq? Or both? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/34 "2014-06-01T12:23:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So are you arguing they should release Aamer? Or are you arguing they shouldn’t have released Fazl, Khairkhwa, Nabi, Nori, and Wasiq? Or both? Well, in which of these scenarios does America look more evil? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/35 "2014-06-01T13:23:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So are you arguing they should release Aamer? Or are you arguing they shouldn’t have released Fazl, Khairkhwa, Nabi, Nori, and Wasiq? Or both? I have been supporting the release of Aamer for a long time. I think all low value or accidental kidnapees should be freed without question. I have no problem with the US doing a hostage exchange (as Guantanamo kidnappees are essentially hostages held beyond the Law- that is an internal matter.) What I do have a problem with is valuing an American Life at the release of Five High Value Hostages, yet valuing a British Life at less than one definite combattent at a low level. I have just seen the US coverage of the release and was incredibly offended (though not amazed) at the self excusing complaints about the prisoner being tortured while in captivity while totally ignoring the fact that behind the news blackout nearly 100 Guantanamo detainees are being tortured everyday. I don’t think that after water boarding (now apparently banned, and forced feeding to quell dissent, that the US administration has any standing to complain about another enemy troturing an American. Sauce for the Goose… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/36 "2014-06-01T13:28:02Z")
You keep complaining about force feeding. And yet, I can’t help but imagine that if the US were to simply allow the detainees to _starve to death_, you’d complain about that too. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/37 "2014-06-01T13:36:57Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > What I do have a problem with is valuing an American Life at the release of Five High Value Hostages, yet valuing a British Life at less than one definite combattent at a low level. It was the Taliban who valued the American Life at the release of Five High Value Hostages, not America. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/38 "2014-06-01T13:38:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It was the Taliban who valued the American Life at the release of Five High Value Hostages, not America. It is the USA being willing to release 5 high value terrorists while refusing to release one low or nil value Brit who is still being tortured daily. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/39 "2014-06-01T13:40:40Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It is the USA being willing to release 5 high value terrorists while refusing to release one low or nil value Brit who is still being tortured daily. Again; what has the US been offered in exchange for the release of this Brit (who I notice you haven’t yet mentioned isn’t actually a “Brit” at all, but a Saudi citizen who has UK residence rights by dint of having married a British citizen)? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754/40 "2014-06-01T13:42:59Z")
What is the difference between Bergdahl’s and Aamer’s “illegal”\* detainment? Honest question, if anyone cares to answer. - under quotes because international law is just muscle flexing, as demonstrated by USA’s rank hypocrisy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-hypocrisy-over-guantanamo/689754.md?page=3)