# Rank the Avengers (from new movie) by strength **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406 "2012-03-01T00:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/21 "2012-03-02T03:28:08Z")
> [@](#): > > He wasn’t happy about it, though. And a good thing he wasn’t! ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/22 "2012-03-02T04:03:57Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > That’s always been how I’ve read it, too. I’m reminded of the original “Secret Wars” series, in which a sufficiently-motivated Hulk was able to hold up an entire mountain, which had been dropped on top of a group of the heroes. Best comic book cover ever. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/23 "2012-03-02T04:41:25Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > That’s always been how I’ve read it, too. I’m reminded of the original “Secret Wars” series, in which a sufficiently-motivated Hulk was able to hold up an entire mountain, which had been dropped on top of a group of the heroes. I remember that! Wasn’t Mr. Fantastic sitting next to him, giving him a running commentary about how much he sucked, to keep him angry enough to hold the mountain up? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/24 "2012-03-02T05:22:47Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Now, I understand the need for gender equity, and certainly have no problem with Scarlett Johannsen in a tight outfit to support (heh) that role. But, a _pistol_ among all those cool costumed superheroes? Marvel has a tendency to do “boy comics” with massively overpowered male characters. They do have some high-powered female characters, but such are not the company’s focus. That said, they have published a few good action/stealth characters that aren’t as high-powered as Thor, but still pretty impressive. These are relatively often female: Bobbi Morse, the Daughters of the Dragon, and the Black Widow all fit that type. But yeah, Monica Rambeau or Firestar might have been a little better as a feminist statement. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/25 "2012-03-02T05:42:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I remember that! Wasn’t Mr. Fantastic sitting next to him, giving him a running commentary about how much he sucked, to keep him angry enough to hold the mountain up? Yes, Reed was demonstrating his own awesomeness, because while he was making fun of the green guy, he was using parts from some of Hawkeye’s tech arrows and Spiderman’s web shooters to rebuild Iron Man’s armor, so that it could absorb power from The Human Torch and Captain Marvel. Rhodey (wearing the armor at that point) then was able to vaporize a large part of the mountain range. Reed did this a few seconds after the very first time he looked closely at how the Iron Man suit was put together. Tony Stark is one of the smartest inventors in the Marvel universe. On the Reed Richards scale, he’s about a 2. Another Secret Wars incident that might be relevant: Piledriver is a very tough dude, one of those that bullets bounce off of. Hawkeye put an arrow into him, explaining that the razor-sharp point of a titanium broadhead fired from his bow hits much harder than any normal bullet. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/26 "2012-03-02T05:50:43Z")
There’s a no-prize moment in that series, though. Spider-Man mixes it up with the X-Men, kicks all their asses and then bolts. Professor X wipes Spidey’s memory of the fight. Later on in the story though, Spidey dodges teh Absorbing Man and ends up fighting the new Titania and says “With a little room to maneuver, nobody can lay a hand on me. Not the Absorbing Man, _not the X-Men_ and not you.” (emphasis added). My no-prize explanation is that Xavier felt a little guilty about what he’d done to Spidey and, consciously or otherwise, undid it, though by that time the circumstances were moot. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/27 "2012-03-02T10:09:25Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Iron Man’s new suits are much more powerful than ever. He came up with machines that took out Hulk. He’s like Batman, a winner when he’s prepared and he can pull weaponry out of his rear transistors whenever he needs to. Has he incorporated adamantium or vibranium in his suits? If not, why not? Get the Black Panther to send over some land lease goodies. Well yeah, the suits are powerful. They’re tough as all get-out, but what about the guy inside? He’s still soft and squishy. And no matter how tough the IronMan suit is, it is still only as strong as it’s pilot. Think of a fighter jet. The pilots have to be in exceptional physical shape to pull off those high G manuevers. And that analogy doesn’t just apply it Iron Man when he’s flying, but also when he’s on the ground trading punches with something superstrong. Or taking a hit from some kind of grenade or missile. Now I never really read Iron Man or the Avengers (I was always more a DC kinda guy), so I don’t feel I can advance an opinion really. But surely that should put Iron Man more on par with the Cap and Hawkeye, right? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/28 "2012-03-02T10:54:13Z")
> [@Barking\_Dog](#): > > Well yeah, the suits are powerful. They’re tough as all get-out, but what about the guy inside? He’s still soft and squishy. And no matter how tough the IronMan suit is, it is still only as strong as it’s pilot. Think of a fighter jet. The pilots have to be in exceptional physical shape to pull off those high G manuevers. Actually, just how the suit flies is enough to protect him from the worst of it. A pilot is most vulnerable to G-forces pushing upwards - a sustained 2-3 Gs compared to 5-9 in the opposite direction, or 12-17 acting perpendicular to the spine. He is also closer to the centre of the suit than your average pilot (obviously), so he’s less vulnerable to centripetal force. Unless he lands on his head he’s only ever going to be experiencing significant, sustained G forces in the directions his body is most resistant to. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/29 "2012-03-02T14:15:36Z")
> [@Barking\_Dog](#): > > Well yeah, the suits are powerful. They’re tough as all get-out, but what about the guy inside? He’s still soft and squishy. And no matter how tough the IronMan suit is, it is still only as strong as it’s pilot. Think of a fighter jet. The pilots have to be in exceptional physical shape to pull off those high G manuevers. And that analogy doesn’t just apply it Iron Man when he’s flying, but also when he’s on the ground trading punches with something superstrong. Or taking a hit from some kind of grenade or missile. > Now I never really read Iron Man or the Avengers (I was always more a DC kinda guy), so I don’t feel I can advance an opinion really. But surely that should put Iron Man more on par with the Cap and Hawkeye, right? They’ve covered this over the years with some hand-waving about shock absorption technology or whatever their current hot buzzwords were. Otherwise the inside of Tony’s head would be jello after the first encounter. And his suits keep getting better over time. Vibranium would do a better job since it’s essentially magic, so that’s why I’m asking if they’ve incorporated it. The Marvel wiki lists both Hulk and Thor under their [incalculable strength](http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:Incalculable_Strength) - over 100 tons - category. I also found a page of [Unofficial Marvel universe power rankings](http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3620). Enraged Hulk and Thor are Tier 15. Relaxed Hulk, Doc Samson, and Iron Man are Tier 16. That’s right. There are 14 tiers above the Hulk. Just goes to show how many cosmic class world jugglers Marvel has introduced over the years. Heck, Galactus is only Tier 8. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/30 "2012-03-02T14:37:43Z")
I assume you’ve all see the newest [trailer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX3uSMT7T-M&feature=related), right? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/31 "2012-03-02T14:56:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > His original background is that he was a low-level villain who decided to go straight and joined the Avengers when most of the original members retired. His new background is he’s a black-ops agent that Nick Fury recruited for the Avengers. Based on his appearance in _Thor_, it appears the movies are going with this version. That’s Marvel’s Ultimate Universe version of Hawkeye. The same UU that used Sam Jackson as the template for it’s version of Nick Fury. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > There’s a no-prize moment in that series, though. Spider-Man mixes it up with the X-Men, kicks all their asses and then bolts. Professor X wipes Spidey’s memory of the fight. Later on in the story though, Spidey dodges teh Absorbing Man and ends up fighting the new Titania and says “With a little room to maneuver, nobody can lay a hand on me. Not the Absorbing Man, _not the X-Men_ and not you.” (emphasis added). > > My no-prize explanation is that Xavier felt a little guilty about what he’d done to Spidey and, consciously or otherwise, undid it, though by that time the circumstances were moot. Spidey once took out the original X-Men in a similar fashion. Better explanation would be that he is referring to those X-Men. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/32 "2012-03-02T17:39:44Z")
WRT Black Widow’s pistol, is it just a conventional firearm? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/33 "2012-03-02T18:59:58Z")
I agree with the OP’s listing of movie Avengers from strongest to weakest (though of course, the Black Widow being “weakest” is entirely relative), but I will also add that a running theme with Hawkeye’s character that comes up repeatedly is “why is a guy who’s “just” a good archer on a team of god-like beings?” And just as often, the repeated answer the comic books provide is that Hawkeye has a scrappy, never-say-die attitude and will to win at any cost. I’m fully suspecting (speculation, not a spoiler) that a running theme of the movie will be exactly that question - why does a team that has a green-skinned behemoth, a thunder god, a super-soldier, and a genius weapon-smith wearing high-tech armor need a “mere archer?” (No one will question the Black Widow’s presence because they are all straight men and she looks like Scarlett Johnansen.) Of course in the epic third-act meelee, one by one the behomoth, the god, the super-soldier, the armored genius and Scarlet Johansen will each get waylaid and only the fiesty, scrappy “mere archer” will be left to perform some awesome trick shot that will totally save the day. Thus everyone will learn a Very Important Lesson that it is not STRENGTH that matters, but HEART. (Awwwwwwwww.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/34 "2012-03-02T19:19:45Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Spidey once took out the original X-Men in a similar fashion. Better explanation would be that he is referring to those X-Men. I dunno, of all the enemies he’s fought, he uses some long-previous encounter as an example? That sounds like more of a stretch than Xavier having regrets or getting careless/distracted. In fact, later in the story, issue 10 or 11, Xavier talks about how his power could be used “insidiously”, so this is a matter he spares at least some thought for. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/35 "2012-03-02T19:30:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m fully suspecting (speculation, not a spoiler) that a running theme of the movie will be exactly that question - why does a team that has a green-skinned behemoth, a thunder god, a super-soldier, and a genius weapon-smith wearing high-tech armor need a “mere archer?” (No one will question the Black Widow’s presence because they are all straight men and she looks like Scarlett Johnansen.) I dunno… I could see Captain America going a bit too chivalrous and getting overprotective of her. He might not question “Why are you wearing skintight leather and doing acrobatics that make your boobs jiggle” (because the answer to that one is self-evident), but I could see him asking why she’s risking herself on the front lines. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/36 "2012-03-02T19:35:08Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > I agree with the OP’s listing of movie Avengers from strongest to weakest (though of course, the Black Widow being “weakest” is entirely relative), but I will also add that a running theme with Hawkeye’s character that comes up repeatedly is “why is a guy who’s “just” a good archer on a team of god-like beings?” And just as often, the repeated answer the comic books provide is that Hawkeye has a scrappy, never-say-die attitude and will to win at any cost. > > I’m fully suspecting (speculation, not a spoiler) that a running theme of the movie will be exactly that question - why does a team that has a green-skinned behemoth, a thunder god, a super-soldier, and a genius weapon-smith wearing high-tech armor need a “mere archer?” (No one will question the Black Widow’s presence because they are all straight men and she looks like Scarlett Johnansen.) Of course in the epic third-act meelee, one by one the behomoth, the god, the super-soldier, the armored genius and Scarlet Johansen will each get waylaid and only the fiesty, scrappy “mere archer” will be left to perform some awesome trick shot that will totally save the day. > > Thus everyone will learn a Very Important Lesson that it is not STRENGTH that matters, but HEART. (Awwwwwwwww.) That exact formula tends to spoil any _Justice League_ cartoon that features Superman and Batman. The former is going to get taken out by something high-voltage or high-tech or high-magic, and it’ll be up to Batman to save the day. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/37 "2012-03-02T20:10:15Z")
To offset some of the praise being heaped on the _Secret Wars_ series above, I’d like to point out a line of dialogue so mountainously bad it actually crushed my interest in the series, if not the Hulk himself. The heroes have all suddenly found themselves ripped from earth and marooned on a planet or mass of some kind created by a godlike being with nearly infinite power for inscrutable reasons. Captain America asserts his leadership role by shouting the pertinent advice: “BE READY FOR ANYTHING!” Possible responses that crossed my mind: 1. “Sure, Cap. I’ll just dial my utility belt to the ANYTHING setting.” 2. “Anything? ANYTHING? Goddamit, I don’t even HAVE a doily fit for High Tea with the Queen!” 3. “No need. It’s simple. Based on the fact that we’ve all suddenly found ourselves ripped from earth and marooned on a planet or mass of some kind created by a godlike being with nearly infinite power for inscrutable reasons, I can predict with confidence exactly what will happen next…” 4. “Holy crap, Cap? YA THINK?” 5. “No one is expecting the Spanish Inquisition!” ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/38 "2012-03-02T20:17:17Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > Hawkeye’s projectiles are larger, more dangerous, and have more range. I think he’s got the edge on Black Widow for sheer power. Though if you arranged for them to fight each other, he probably couldn’t hit her with an arrow. He’d have to use one of his area-effect tools. > > He also pulls a very high-tension bow, so he has to be physically strong. I think it’s in the 150-180 pound range, which is huge. He’s not as strong as Cap, but he could easily twist my head off my shoulders. 300 according to West Coast Avengers #4(?), where the bad guy grabs one of Hawkeye’s bows, monologs about how pathetic Hawkeye is, because his super-power is shoots arrows, and then can’t even begin to draw the bow. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/39 "2012-03-02T20:23:44Z")
Is Hawkeye still deaf? I can’t keep the constant reboots straight, so I gave up. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methyl_Ethyl_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/40 "2012-03-02T20:29:45Z")
He certainly wasn’t deaf in the Thor movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406.md?page=3)