# Rank the Avengers (from new movie) by strength **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406 "2012-03-01T00:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/101 "2012-03-07T22:05:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The Justice League cartoons are especially guilty of this, basically using Grundy as a Hulk stand-in Even teaming him up with Aquaman and Doctor Fate! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/102 "2012-03-07T22:34:12Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Even teaming him up with Aquaman and Doctor Fate! You know, that never occurred to me… and, arguably, Ivo’s Android (i.e. Amazo) has some superficial similarity to the Silver Surfer, too. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/103 "2012-03-08T00:37:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I prefer to think of Hulk not so much as a living being, but as a primal manifestation of the Platonic ideal of Anger, or some such. Really, the proper comparison for him isn’t Earthly heroes, but entities like the Eternals. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/104 "2012-03-08T05:45:26Z")
Spidey’s rankings in that little Gruenwald/Layton strip don’t entirely match the rankings from the Marvel Handbooks a few years later–fair to say Valkyrie and She-Hulk had points–but were probably close to where those characters were written at the time. It gives you an overall idea, even if a given character gets moved by a later writer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/105 "2012-03-08T18:49:42Z")
> [@](#): > > –fair to say Valkyrie and She-Hulk had points– Yes, a very nice pair of points each. ---
**Author:** ![WeaponX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WeaponX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeaponX)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/106 "2013-09-15T17:43:52Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Even huger - 250 lb ( just looked it up 😉 ). It was actually a plot point in a [mini-series](http://www.asitecalledfred.com/comics101/images/2004/sep22/weak.jpg). > > Wiki claims Captain America can bench 1100 lbs. We know that Captain America is incredibly strong anyway, whether wiki is right or wrong- in the film Avengers Assemble, you see him boxing with a punching bag, which he breaks, he then flings another one over his shoulder as if it were a jacket. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/107 "2013-09-15T18:14:37Z")
He’s got zombie power! And in Cap’s own movie, we’re shown four strong German soldiers struggling and failing to move a stone sarcophagus lid, while the Red Skull (who had undergone an enhancement process similar to Captain America) casually shoved it aside with one hand. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/108 "2013-09-15T21:46:27Z")
The only real “Avengers” is the British TV show from the 1960s, starring Patrick MacNee as John Steed. And no, that horrible mockery of a movie with Ralph Fiennes and Uma Thurman does not count. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/109 "2013-09-15T21:59:24Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > The only real “Avengers” is the British TV show from the 1960s, starring Patrick MacNee as John Steed. And no, that horrible mockery of a movie with Ralph Fiennes and Uma Thurman does not count. So, who’s stronger, Black Widow or Emma Peel? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/110 "2013-09-15T22:17:51Z")
No contest. In a straight-up cat-fight, Natasha takes down Emma in less than a heartbeat. In a movie fight, of course, it would stretch out for quite a few minutes, with them tumbling through vats of baby oil and getting their leather cat-suits all torn in strategic places. Then the “winner” will be whoever is essential to the plot at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/111 "2013-09-15T22:20:06Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > So, who’s stronger, Black Widow or Emma Peel? Emma peel, of course. It wouldn’t even be a context. That’s assuming that it is the genuine Emma Peel, as played by Diana Rigg; and not the worthless fake played by Uma Thurman. ---
**Author:** ![jrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@jrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrepka)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/112 "2013-09-15T22:24:13Z")
Not a reader of the comics here, but in the early part of the movie there’s an actual battle between Thor, Ironman, and Captain America that looks pretty much like a draw to me. In the battle scene Thor doesn’t seem to have much of an advantage over Loki, but Hulk tosses him around like a rag doll. It’s a year-and-a-half later, but the OP asked how they should be ranked based on what is shown in the movie: here Hulk is first, Thor+Cap+Ironman seem roughly equal, Hawkeye is a reasonably strong bag-of-meat but pretty effective until he runs out of his dozen-or-so arrows, and Widow knows karate (she could hold her own against Emma Peel, who could plow through a dozen men in no time, but was always challenged when put up against another woman)… ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/113 "2013-09-15T22:26:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > In a movie fight, of course, it would stretch out for quite a few minutes, with them tumbling through vats of baby oil and getting their leather cat-suits all torn in strategic places. 7/10 - would torrent again Add Thor to the baby oil vat scene for PCness and cross-market purposes ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/114 "2013-09-15T22:28:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > No contest. In a straight-up cat-fight, Natasha takes down Emma in less than a heartbeat. In a movie fight, of course, it would stretch out for quite a few minutes, with them tumbling through vats of baby oil and getting their leather cat-suits all torn in strategic places. Then the “winner” will be whoever is essential to the plot at that point. I didn’t ask who’s the better fighter, just who is the stronger woman. I think they are archetypical of the athletic karate spy-babe, so they may be equals in every sense. Mmm, Emma Peel. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/115 "2013-09-15T22:38:11Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Add Thor to the baby oil vat scene for PCness and cross-market purposes But Thor wouldn’t deign to get involved. Cap, OTOH… Straight-up strength still puts Natasha on top. She is a trained assassin. Emma is just a “talented amateur.” (It hurt to type that, because I grew up lusting after Diana Rigg. But “facts” are facts. She loses.) ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/116 "2013-09-15T23:49:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You know, that never occurred to me… and, arguably, Ivo’s Android (i.e. Amazo) has some superficial similarity to the Silver Surfer, too. and Hawkgirl’s a pretty good stand-in for Valkyrie. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/117 "2013-09-15T23:54:07Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But Thor wouldn’t deign to get involved. Cap, OTOH… > > Straight-up strength still puts Natasha on top. She is a trained assassin. Emma is just a “talented amateur.” (It hurt to type that, because I grew up lusting after Diana Rigg. But “facts” are facts. She loses.) Emma Peel is one of the real Avengers. On this alone, before any fight or contest even begins, she has already won over any phony pretender to that title. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/118 "2013-09-16T00:26:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **jrepka** : > > Not a reader of the comics here, but in the early part of the movie there’s an actual battle between Thor, Ironman, and Captain America that looks pretty much like a draw to me. > > In the battle scene Thor doesn’t seem to have much of an advantage over Loki, but Hulk tosses him around like a rag doll. A few points to keep in mind, here: First, in the three-way fight you mentioned, Cap did two things: He tried to talk the other two down from fighting, and he blocked a very impressive blow from Thor’s hammer with his shield. Canonically, he is very good at diplomacy, and his shield is pretty much one of the absolutes of the Marvel universe: It can block _anything_. So he was playing to his strengths. If, however, he had tried to go on the offensive vs. Thor or Iron Man, it would have gone very badly for him. Second, while Thor isn’t as strong as the Hulk, he’s still easily strong enough to toss Loki around like a ragdoll. He doesn’t, because he really does love his brother, and really doesn’t want to actually hurt him. Hulk, though, has no such compunctions. So, puny god. Third, while Hulk is strongest one there is, that’s about all he is: He can’t fly, he can’t shoot energy blasts, he can’t plan out strategy, etc. Iron Man and Thor both can. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/119 "2013-09-16T00:26:05Z")
> [@jrepka](#): > > Not a reader of the comics here, but in the early part of the movie there’s an actual battle between Thor, Ironman, and Captain America that looks pretty much like a draw to me. The bit where Thor inadvertently super-charges Iron Man’s armor by attacking him with lightning was meant to indicate that Tony wouldn’t normally be able to hold his own with him so well, IMO. As I remember Captain America mostly just threw his shield in between to break it up. He’s certainly not as strong as either. I’d say the OP got the ranking right. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406/120 "2013-09-16T00:47:16Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > The only real “Avengers” is the British TV show from the 1960s, starring Patrick MacNee as John Steed. > [@](#): > > Emma Peel is one of the real Avengers. On this alone, before any fight or contest even begins, she has already won over any phony pretender to that title. Yeah, yeah, we get it. Your 52-year-old Avengers is a classic, and our 50-year-old Avengers is just a Johnny-come-lately wannabe.😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-avengers-from-new-movie-by-strength/614406.md?page=7)