# Rank the proposed baseball rule changes! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185 "2019-02-08T17:18:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/81 "2019-02-15T19:50:40Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Did you try thinking outside the box? He would, but he’s now out of pocket for the rest of the afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/82 "2019-02-15T20:04:19Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > He would, but he’s now out of pocket for the rest of the afternoon. Plus I have no bandwidth to start reinventing the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/83 "2019-02-15T20:13:23Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I grew up an AL fan and didn’t see the problem with the DH. Then I moved to a NL town, and found I enjoyed not having the DH. It was nothing to do with tradition for me. > > It’s not watching the pitcher try to hit that I enjoy, it’s the DH himself that pisses me off. Some guy who’s too fat, old, or uncoordinated to play the field detracts from the game for me. Retire gracefully before you reach that point. > > If people can’t stand watching a pitcher hit, I’d prefer a rule change that skips the pitcher in the batting order and goes with eight hitters. DH: Some guy who is too fat, old to play but can hit the horsehide off the ball. I’ll turn that around. NL Pitcher: Some gangly mook who’s too uncoordinated to hit a baseball despite knowing the mindset of the guy throwing it, but can throw a ball decently. Maybe all NL pitchers need an asterisk next to their ERA stat saying (faced an easy out putz at least 3 times every game). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/84 "2019-02-16T13:15:05Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > NL Pitcher: > Some gangly mook who’s too uncoordinated to hit a baseball despite knowing the mindset of the guy throwing it, but can throw a ball decently. When Randy Johnson was still active I attended the Diamondback home game where he hit his only major _or_ minor league home run _ever_. I’ve wondered how the pitcher felt about that. And speaking of gangly, another game he had a 2B hit and the next batter, speedball Midre Cummings, hit an in-park home run. By the time RJ galumphed from second to home, Cummings was right behind him crossing the plate. If the NL had a DH, I would have missed those moments. Baseball is a game played by nine men, not eight and two halves. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/85 "2019-02-16T13:52:43Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > If the NL had a DH, I would have missed those moments. If you want to see a clown act, go to the circus. > [@](#): > > Baseball is a game played by nine men, not eight and two halves. Hitting is done by players actually trying to hit and often succeeding, not pretending and failing. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/86 "2019-02-16T18:04:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Hitting is done by players actually trying to hit and often succeeding, not pretending and failing. For certain, not-very-large values of “often.” 😃 One of the particular quirks of baseball is that the offense fails more often than not. A batter who fails at his primary job 2/3 of the time may very well still be posting numbers that would place him in the Hall of Fame. Last season, batters successfully hit the ball only 24.8% of the time that they came to bat (the lowest success rate since 1974). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/87 "2019-02-17T13:42:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you want to see a clown act, go to the circus. And if you want mindless, continuous action, go to a basketball game. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/88 "2019-02-17T18:43:08Z")
The opportunity to stand at home plate and attempt to hit a baseball is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE which is EARNED by playing defense. It is also an OBLIGATION for anyone who wishes to continue playing in the game. Similarly, the opportunity to participate in baseball game against a team in the other league is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE which your team can EARN by winning the pennant in its league. These are MORAL issues, which, if abandoned, threaten to transmogrify the sacred pastime of baseball (GIFTED by the Grace of the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE to an unworthy humanity) into a mere exercise in Commerce. To that I say PFUI! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/89 "2019-02-17T20:08:43Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I grew up an AL fan and didn’t see the problem with the DH. Then I moved to a NL town, and found I enjoyed not having the DH. It was nothing to do with tradition for me. > > It’s not watching the pitcher try to hit that I enjoy, it’s the DH himself that pisses me off. Some guy who’s too fat, old, or uncoordinated to play the field detr99[acts from the game for me. How many DHs actually DH because they’re to fat, old or uncoordinated to play the field? It’s a rhetorical question; the answer is “very few, and in fact almost none.” There is no reason JD Martinez, Kendrys Morales, Edwin Encarnacion, Khris Davis, Nelson Cruz or Giancarlo Stanton couldn’t play the field, and all of those guys did at some point last year; they just play for teams that usually wanted someone else to play the field more. Many teams don’t have a regular DH at all, they rotate guys in and out. The idea the DH is a repository for fat, unless turds is just not true. > [@kaylasdad](#): > > The opportunity to stand at home plate and attempt to hit a baseball is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE which is EARNED by playing defense. It’s a sport, not a constitution. The rules are whatever the powers than be decide they are; the only thing that matters is whether they produce a functioning game that people enjoy playing and watching. > [@DesertDog](#): > > If the NL had a DH, I would have missed those moments. Baseball is a game played by nine men, not eight and two halves… Major League Baseball has been played by teams of 25 men since the First World War. As to cool moments, I agree it’s neat to see a pitcher hit a homer. It was also cool to watch 37-year-old DH Rance Mulliniks hit an inside the park homer on July 11, 1991, and I was there to see it. It was an awesome moment. I am sure people who watched Edgar Martinez or David Ortiz got a lot of great moments too. There is an opportunity cost to everything; having DHs means you don’t see Randy Johnson hit a homer, but not seeing them means many beloved players who not have left behind many wonderful memories. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/90 "2019-02-18T16:33:28Z")
I’m a traditionalist. If I wanted to see more hitting just for the sake of hitting, I’d advocate bringing back the rule that batters call their own pitches, [high or low](https://www.mlb.com/cut4/10-bizarre-rules-from-baseballs-past/c-124363454). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/91 "2019-02-18T18:01:10Z")
So why _don’t_ you? When did the constantly-changing rules of the game crystallize for you into a form that can never be altered without degrading from their perfection? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/92 "2019-02-19T09:30:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So why _don’t_ you? When did the constantly-changing rules of the game crystallize for you into a form that can never be altered without degrading from their perfection? I’d be inclined to say “1956” (my birth year), but I didn’t really become aware of baseball’s existence until I was about five, so let’s say 1961. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/93 "2019-02-19T13:46:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So why _don’t_ you? When did the constantly-changing rules of the game crystallize for you into a form that can never be altered without degrading from their perfection? The same reason, I suppose, you don’t advocate having completely separate offensive and defensive squads – nine men fielding and nine men hitting. Works for the NFL, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/94 "2019-02-19T14:40:41Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The same reason, I suppose, you don’t advocate having completely separate offensive and defensive squads – nine men fielding and nine men hitting. Works for the NFL, doesn’t it? Yes, it works for the NFL, but it would not work for baseball. Just saying “look this other sport does things totally differently” means jack. The NFL does it differently because that works in football, for a number of really indisputable reasons. For one, football is an exceptionally damaging and dangerous sport, and it is unlikely most players could effectively play on both sides of the ball for the entire game. For another, the positions are, as it happens, extremely specialized. There IS some crossover - you will on occasion see a defensive back/safety who is also used on offensive special teams - but you will generally not see defensive players used on offense, or vice versa, because they just aren’t good enough at it. Quarterbacks are not good safeties. Defensive linemen are not good running backs, except for the Fridge. Those jobs are so different that they are totally different sets of people. Baseball has, with one exception, neither of these issues. It is not especially dangerous, exhausting or punishing to play both offense and defense, and the set of athletes who can both field and hit is generally the same set of men. Most of the greatest fielding players of all time were highly competent hitters, and none were pitcher-bad or anywhere close to it It would be a waste of time and resources to have separate offensive and defensive teams. The only position where baseball is similar to football is… pitchers. Pitching is so incredibly different and specialized from hitting and fielding that there is almost no talent crossover at the major league level. Pitchers are incompetent MLB hitters for exactly the same reason professional golfers, NHL goalies and Olympic volleyball players are incompetent MLB hitters; it is not what they were selected for in the Darwinian world of sports. It isn’t worth giving up any pitching ability to get a pitcher who can hit a little. Pitchers aren’t even really selected for fielding ability; some pitchers are quite good fielders but a surprising number are terrible at it. Yeah, there’s the odd Shohei Ohtani or Babe Ruth, just as there’s the odd Deion Sanders or Troy Brown. It’s odd, though. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/95 "2019-02-19T19:22:00Z")
To be fair, football teams did use to be less specialized. The single platoon was normal when teams could only afford much smaller rosters, and the players accommodated it by pacing themselves more. The same happened when baseball pitchers completed games far more often - they paced themselves too, and thereby let the rosters include a reasonable number of utility players (and pinch hitters). The increase in specialization in both sports, and in other examples like two-platoon football and kicking specialists and closers and DH’s, directly resulted from the increased revenue provided by television, and customers’ desire to see the best games, with each position played by the people who were best at playing those positions. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/96 "2019-02-19T19:43:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’d be inclined to say “1956” (my birth year), but I didn’t really become aware of baseball’s existence until I was about five, so let’s say 1961. I’ve come to realize that, for most sports fans, their idealized version of the sport is the way that it was played when they first started following the sport (i.e., from age 5 or so, up through your teens). Unless you’re a serious scholar of the sport, how it was played before then is hazy; and, for most of us, how the sport has evolved since then is often painful to watch. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/97 "2019-02-19T20:52:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No need. The entire \*civilized \*world already knows that making pitchers bat is silly. > > It’s charming how so many people want the game to be exactly the same as it was in George Will’s boyhood, it really is, but they do all still need a smack upside the head. Especially George Will himself. He’s always needed a dope-slap or 12. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/98 "2019-02-19T21:06:40Z")
As for the merits of the proposed rule changes: 1. Yes to the pitch clock. 2. Yes to the batter’ faced minimum. 3. No to the NL-DH. It gives us all something harmless to argue about, as we have been doing since 1973. 4. No to runner on 2d to start extra innngs. Not just no, but hell no. 5. Yes to 12 man limit on roster pitching staffs. 6. Yes to ending interleague play. Except for intercity rivalries. Mets/Yankees, Cubs/White Sox, Angels/Dodgers, Giants/A’s etc. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/99 "2019-02-19T21:23:22Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > As for the merits of the proposed rule changes: > > 1. Yes to ending interleague play. Except for intercity rivalries. Mets/Yankees, Cubs/White Sox, Angels/Dodgers, Giants/A’s etc. Wouldn’t that be unfair to either the teams that had to do it or the teams that didn’t have to? (I’m not sure which way is an advantage). If you have 4 or 5 teams that face different opponents than the rest of the league, you’re creating issues. I know we don’t have balanced schedules anymore, but everyone plays the same number of in league and inter league games. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185/100 "2019-02-19T22:47:27Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > 1. Yes to ending interleague play. Except for intercity rivalries. Mets/Yankees, Cubs/White Sox, Angels/Dodgers, Giants/A’s etc. I’d be strongly in favor of at least reducing it substantially (to return some of the novelty / specialness that it had when it was first introduced), but doing so would also require either (a) expansion, adding another team to each league, or (b) moving a team from one league to the other once again. We wound up with full-year interleague play when MLB moved Houston to the AL, which gave a balanced number of teams in each league, but also yielded an odd number of teams in each league. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rank-the-proposed-baseball-rule-changes/829185.md?page=6)