# \>(rant lisp) ;WARNING: deranged programmer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902 "2001-11-12T10:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/1 "2001-11-12T10:20:48Z")
```auto >(understandp sturmhauke lisp) NIL >(hatep sturmhauke lisp) T >(too (many) (goddamn (paren (theses)))) T >(project-status sturmhauke 8-puzzle-program) FUCKED >(gives-a-shitp sturmhauke '(Lisp programs can write other Lisp programs! Hooray!!)) NIL >(brain-friedp sturmhauke) WARNING - FUNCTION <0A3D9F4E BRAIN-FRIEDP> CONTAINS FATAL ERROR, BRAIN IS IRRECOVERABLE, TERMINATING PROGRAM ``` ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/2 "2001-11-12T10:48:07Z")
😕 ---
**Author:** ![Chaosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Chaosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chaosopher)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/3 "2001-11-12T10:50:39Z")
“Lisp has all the visual appeal of oatmeal with fingernail clippings mixed in.” -Larry Wall I feel your pain. I think Lisp is one of the ugliest languages on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/4 "2001-11-12T11:36:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chaosopher \* > “Lisp has all the visual appeal of oatmeal with fingernail clippings mixed in.” -Larry Wall This is rich coming from the creator of Perl one of the most unreadable languages on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/5 "2001-11-12T11:52:28Z")
As a former APL programmer, I sneer at Lisp and Perl, and laugh disdainfully at their character sets. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/6 "2001-11-12T13:34:37Z")
I feel your pain, **sturmhauke**. But now I love programming in Lisp. I guess it’s just something you get used to after a while. Part of it is that I’ve always liked recursion, so I took pretty quickly to how Lisp likes to do things (for our first assignment, our teacher forbade us from doing anything in an iterative manner). That said, here’s an interview that might interest you, wherein the interviewee talks about the parentheses and features he likes about Lisp, etc. > **[Kent M. Pitman Answers On Lisp And Much More - Slashdot](https://developers.slashdot.org/story/01/11/03/1726251/kent-m-pitman-answers-on-lisp-and-much-more)** > > A few weeks ago, you asked Kent M. Pitman about Lisp, Scheme, standards, and other things -- He's answered your questions below, at length. At such length, in fact, that only the first eleven of his answers are shown below -- expect more shortly!... ---
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/7 "2001-11-12T17:01:47Z")
I love Lisp! But if I’d had to do it in vi, or any other editor that didn’t bounce parentheses, I definitely would have shot myself in the head no later than the second day. LISP: Lots of Itty-bitty Stupid Parentheses [sub]Jeez, Lisp jokes. I am _such_ a geek.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/8 "2001-11-12T17:30:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skip \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Chaosopher \* > > “Lisp has all the visual appeal of oatmeal with fingernail clippings mixed in.” -Larry Wall > > This is rich coming from the creator of Perl one of the most unreadable languages on the planet. \*\* Perl has the _potential_ to be unreadable. In the hands of a skilled coder, however, who understands the nature of Perl and the differences between it and other languages, it is extremely readable, beautiful, elegant, and spiffarifous. LISP: Lots of Irritating Superfluous Parentheses. 🙂 (Actually I think the design of LISP is kinda cool.) ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/9 "2001-11-12T18:51:19Z")
You weirdo Lisp-lovers can keep your language, I’m sticking to C++ where possible. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/10 "2001-11-12T18:53:38Z")
Readable? Beautiful? Elegant? Spiffarifous? ```auto 10 PRINT "YOU SUCK" 20 GOTO 10 ``` That can be optimized. ```auto 10 PRINT "YOU SUCK" : GOTO 10 ``` Let’s trim that down a bit more… ```auto 10 ? "YOU SUCK" : GOTO 10 ``` Still too much whitespace. ```auto 10 ?"YOU SUCK":GOTO 10 ``` And l33tspeak: ```auto 10 ?"U SUK":GOTO 10 ``` …maybe this is why I opted against programming as a career choice. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/11 "2001-11-12T19:21:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*Perl has the _potential_ to be unreadable. In the hands of a skilled coder, however, who understands the nature of Perl and the differences between it and other languages, it is extremely readable, beautiful, elegant, and spiffarifous. > > LISP: Lots of Irritating Superfluous Parentheses. 🙂 > > (Actually I think the design of LISP is kinda cool.) \*\* Any language has the potential to be unreadable in the hands of the right coder. Surprisingly, it actually takes a _really good_ programmer to write truly unreadable code. I’m not gonna claim to be really good, but I can write C++ without using for’s, if’s, or while’s, and you might imagine that such code isn’t necessarily the cleanest or easiest to understand. If you’re feeling brave, you might want to check out the [International Obfuscated C Code Contest](http://www.ioccc.org/) site. There’re some real mind-bogglers there. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/12 "2001-11-12T20:49:41Z")
Can anyone recommend a good free Lisp interpreter for PC? The ones I have, Franz and Corman, both kinda suck. Hell, Corman doesn’t even work half the time. ---
**Author:** ![Jonny\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9f8e36/32.png) [@Jonny\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonny_T)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/13 "2001-11-13T16:57:06Z")
void main(void){int i=0;char msg=“J\0qsfgfs\0D\0”;for(i=0;i\<=10;i++)putchar(msg\*-1);} ---
**Author:** ![Jonny\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9f8e36/32.png) [@Jonny\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonny_T)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/14 "2001-11-13T16:59:29Z")
void main(void){int j=0;char msg=“J\0qsfgfs\0D\0”;for(j=0;j\<=10;j++)putchar(msg[j]-1);} ---
**Author:** ![Jonny\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9f8e36/32.png) [@Jonny\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonny_T)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/15 "2001-11-13T17:02:24Z")
^note to self: preview _before_ posting. Apologies to the mods. void main(void){int l=0;char msg=“J\0qsfgfs\0D\0”;for(l=0;l\<=10;l++)putchar(msg[l]-1);} ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/16 "2001-11-14T01:55:36Z")
Studying Scheme for my Programming Languages class, I experienced the giddy thrill of being inducted into the cult of the functional programmers. I actually thought that I was ingesting a new programming paradigm. I saw past the parentheses to the beautiful structure of every function that was a program in and of itself. I began to speak recursively to my friends, who were no longer my friends after I took the class. Then we got to Chapter 7, where the textbook sheepishly admitted that even Scheme, simple, elegant Scheme, needed to have procedural bits to work. Java, here I come. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/17 "2001-11-14T02:06:01Z")
[Here](http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/)’s something you guys’ll probably find interesting. It describes esoteric programming languages like brainf\*ck (yes, that’s its real name) and the one-instruction computer. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/18 "2001-11-14T03:26:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > Java, here I come. \*\* Nooooooooooooooooooo!!! For the love of all things Holy stay away from that abomination. If you want to see a really cool language that’s _really_ object oriented (like Java pretends to be) check out [Ruby](http://www.ruby-lang.org/). ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/19 "2001-11-14T04:34:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sturmhauke \* > Can anyone recommend a good free Lisp interpreter for PC? The ones I have, Franz and Corman, both kinda suck. Hell, Corman doesn’t even work half the time. Why not go straight to the source (and prebuilt binaries)? [http://clisp.sourceforge.net/](http://clisp.sourceforge.net/) Oh, BTW, I hate lisp, mostly because I’ve never had the opportunity to learn it well. My preferred poison is C++, and I’ll never touch Perl again if I can avoid it now that I’ve found Python. (oh, and just to make it interesting, I hate EMACS–I use VIM :)) ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902/20 "2001-11-14T04:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\* > If you want to see a really cool language that’s _really_ object oriented (like Java pretends to be) check out [Ruby](http://www.ruby-lang.org/). \*\* Bah! I’ll have no truck with the bastard child of perl and python. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-lisp-warning-deranged-programmer/92902.md?page=2)