# Rant: US Immigration **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2006, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359 "2006-03-07T10:12:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/21 "2006-03-07T14:47:58Z")
> [@Waverly](#): > > I explained this to you. > > I get it now. You are a nutter and don’t want a factual response. No problem. Carry on. Just don’t visit the US, we have enough idiots of our own. If your answer is as in your post above: > [@Waverly](#): > > The address request isn’t strictly a security issue. They want to know where to reach you without waiting for you to return home. If someone on the plane comes down with SARS, just for one example, they can notify you. Many, many, countries ask for this information, and they aren’t real sticklers for how much detail you give. Get over it. Why do they now want it _before the plane takes off?_ And I must say that your aggressive attitude lumps you with **Airman Doors** as one of the reasons why people tend to see (falsely) all Americans as jingoistic, inward looking, over-sensitive buffoons. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/22 "2006-03-07T14:57:14Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > And I must say that your aggressive attitude lumps you with **Airman Doors** as one of the reasons why people tend to see (falsely) all Americans as jingoistic, inward looking, over-sensitive buffoons. Heh. I think Airman would [maybe has] called me an unpatriotic America basher. Looks like I’ve got no friends at all amoung the idiocrasy. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/23 "2006-03-07T15:00:31Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Now, if they were asking for a contact address in the US for the duration of the stay (friend, post restante etc.) then I could see some use…But the address of a hotel that you might not stay at. So it makes sense to ask for a contact address of a friend on the assumption you’d never lie about that, but not to ask for hotel information? Your distinction does not compute. > [@](#): > > Yes, but it is increasing the amount of time taken to check in at the airport- which is already 3 hours on flights to the US. Mm-hmmm. So procedures at your airport (which you are not pitting) take you 3 hours, during which you can’t find a convenient moment to fill in a couple lines on a card? I’m starting to agree with “nutter”. Pretty soon you’ll be starting rants about how Homeland Security is beaming x-rays at you and monitoring your bathroom visits. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/24 "2006-03-07T15:09:52Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So procedures at your airport (which you are not pitting) take you 3 hours, during which you can’t find a convenient moment to fill in a couple lines on a card? The time used to be one hour before 9/11. It is mainly due to US requirements about security that it has gone up to 3 hours. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m starting to agree with “nutter”. Pretty soon you’ll be starting rants about how Homeland Security is beaming x-rays at you and monitoring your bathroom visits. :rolleyes: ‘Homeland Security’ and its predecessor did cause the disappearance of a considerable number of people after 9/11: > **[American Gulag: Inside U.S. Immigration Prisons: Dow, Mark: 9780520246690:...](https://www.amazon.com/American-Gulag-Inside-Immigration-Prisons/dp/0520246691)** > > American Gulag: Inside U.S. Immigration Prisons \[Dow, Mark\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. American Gulag: Inside U.S. Immigration Prisons Read from here: [http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0520239423/ref=sib\_rdr\_ex/103-0679115-3134260?\_encoding=UTF8&p=S00G&j=0#reader-page](http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0520239423/ref=sib_rdr_ex/103-0679115-3134260?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00G&j=0#reader-page) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/25 "2006-03-07T15:29:51Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The time used to be one hour before 9/11. It is mainly due to US requirements about security that it has gone up to 3 hours. And this has what exactly to do with filling in a few lines on a card before boarding instead of on the plane? > [@](#): > > ‘Homeland Security’ and its predecessor did cause the disappearance of a considerable number of people after 9/11… Yep, all you gotta do is reveal that you’re staying at the Marriott, and you’ll be scooped up in the dead of night and led off, hooded and in chains. When some U.S. customs guy smiles at you and says “Have a nice day”, do you say to yourself "_I wonder what he meant by that?"_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/26 "2006-03-07T15:36:30Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And this has what exactly to do with filling in a few lines on a card before boarding instead of on the plane?Yep, all you gotta do is reveal that you’re staying at the Marriott, and you’ll be scooped up in the dead of night and led off, hooded and in chains. No, it has to do with sending off a complete passenger manifest including credit card number used, name, home address given, to the US for consideration before the flight takes off. If a flight is in mid air with a person on board that is ‘suspicious’ then the flight is diverted at great cost to the airline. I think they wait for initial clearance of the list before take-off. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > When some U.S. customs guy smiles at you and says “Have a nice day”, do you say to yourself "_I wonder what he meant by that?"_? 😃 Even before 9/11 I found INS and Customs personnel to be the most surly unfriendly people in the whole US- I used to think that they must have trawled really hard to find such difficult, moody, unfriendly, jobsworths from a population that is universally friendly and helpful in all customer-client relations. In fact they were so surly it reminded me of normal customer service in the UK in the seventies! They still do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/27 "2006-03-07T16:33:33Z")
How much time does this add to check-in at the airport? I would supsect most people would fill out the form while standing in line, no? And, if the US customs wants to cross-check with any databases, wouldn’t it be better to do so before the plane lands and not after (or, even better, before the plane takes off)? Maybe this will cut down on time getting thru customs at the other end. What’s wrong, **Pjen** , you weren’t get much traction in your other Pit thread, so you decided to up the stakes? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/28 "2006-03-07T16:40:35Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Even before 9/11 I found INS and Customs personnel to be the most surly unfriendly people in the whole US)… Most likely they are responding to the attitude they perceive in you (and to which we are abundantly treated in your voluminous posts). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/29 "2006-03-07T16:45:42Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > How much time does this add to check-in at the airport? I would supsect most people would fill out the form while standing in line, no? As I said: pre 9/11: one hour check in now: three hours all due to special measures insisted on by the US. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/30 "2006-03-07T16:56:17Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > As I said: > > pre 9/11: one hour check in > > now: three hours > > all due to special measures insisted on by the US. And you want to travel here. If I were to go to another country I can all but guarantee (in fact, I CAN guarantee) that I will find rquirements that I find to be particularly onerous. Guess what? I do them anyway. Pointless? Perhaps. But I don’t deign to call their procedures idiotic, because it’s their country, it’s their rules, and by entering their country I have essentially entered into an agreement to abide by their rules. If that means that I have to dump out the contents of all of my bags to demonstrate that I have no contraband, that’s what I do. If that means that I submit myself to a background check, that’s what I do. If that means that I tell them where I will be when I get there, I do it. The alternative is to stay home. So, again, boo hoo hoo. You’re breaking my heart. If you know it’s bullshit, just put down whatever you want to and go about your business. It’s your call if you want to tell everyone how easy it is to get over on the government, but I think you’re being a putz by doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/31 "2006-03-07T17:07:04Z")
**Pjen** , Since you hate the U.S., presumably you won’t be visiting. So what the fuck do you care? Jesus, your anti-american rants are getting lamer and lamer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/32 "2006-03-07T17:07:15Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > As I said: > > pre 9/11: one hour check in > > now: three hours > > all due to special measures insisted on by the US. That wasn’t my question. You seem to be primarily concerned with the added check-in time this particular procedural change will cause. How much time, exactly, will filling out this form add to check-in time? I can see that it probably will add some, but I think that time will be measured in seconds, not minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/33 "2006-03-07T17:09:21Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > . . . _whatever_ . . . Airman, your spurs are going jingo jingo jingo. It wasn’t even an attack, so there’s no need to defend. It wasn’t even a criticism of America the Beautiful and Free. It was a criticism of mindless beurocratic crap. Perhaps you love mindless bureaucratic crap, and if so, by all means jump to the defense of mindless bureaucrats. But do so without the kneejerk call to man the battlements against the foul hoards of furriners. It’s unseemly. Tris ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/34 "2006-03-07T17:15:14Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > by entering their country I have essentially entered into an agreement to abide by their rules. Presume that doesn’t apply to Iraq. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/35 "2006-03-07T17:22:21Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Presume that doesn’t apply to Iraq. 😉 Fortunately for me I’ve only been in Iraq for a few scant hours. Mostly I’ve been above it. But yeah, if there are rules I am required to follow them. I didn’t DARE try to smuggle liquor into Kuwait, for instance. I had to all but get undressed on the way in and on the way out. Their country, their rules. Bullshit? Of course. It’s just booze. But it’s a dry country, and that’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/36 "2006-03-07T17:24:37Z")
> [@Waverly](#): > > Heh. I think Airman would [maybe has] called me an unpatriotic America basher. > > Looks like I’ve got no friends at all amoung the idiocrasy. Nah, you’re fine. People bear grudges against me, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/37 "2006-03-07T17:33:15Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > But I don’t deign to call their procedures idiotic, because it’s their country, it’s their rules, and by entering their country I have essentially entered into an agreement to abide by their rules. An agreement to abide by rules is completely different from surrendering your reason and saying “I have no right to have an opinion regarding whether this rule should be in place.” Everyone has a right to express an opinion, even if it’s about someone else’s rules. And I have a legitimate right to declare a rule idiotic even if it’s someone else’s country that’s imposing it. Observation, analysis, reason, dissent. Without these in constant operation, you’re not living an intelligent life. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/38 "2006-03-07T17:41:47Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And you want to travel here. If I were to go to another country I can all but guarantee (in fact, I CAN guarantee) that I will find rquirements that I find to be particularly onerous. Guess what? I do them anyway. Pointless? Perhaps. But I don’t deign to call their procedures idiotic, because it’s their country, it’s their rules, and by entering their country I have essentially entered into an agreement to abide by their rules. If that means that I have to dump out the contents of all of my bags to demonstrate that I have no contraband, that’s what I do. If that means that I submit myself to a background check, that’s what I do. If that means that I tell them where I will be when I get there, I do it. The alternative is to stay home. > > So, again, boo hoo hoo. You’re breaking my heart. If you know it’s bullshit, just put down whatever you want to and go about your business. It’s your call if you want to tell everyone how easy it is to get over on the government, but I think you’re being a putz by doing it. I do the same, in that when I go to a foreign country I abide by their rules as per forms, inspections, etc. I do not, however, relenquish my right to bitch about it. There is no reason not to complain about an idiotic policy. Hey, if enough people do and it is found to be worthless, then maybe they will get rid of it. Doesn’t stop me from travelling though. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/39 "2006-03-07T17:43:44Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Fortunately for me I’ve only been in Iraq for a few scant hours. Mostly I’ve been above it. Don’t take me too seriously: I wasn’t really having a dig - it was just a wide open goal for an easy punchline. > [@](#): > > Bullshit? Of course. Which is precisely what **pjen** is saying. He’s not seeking to contravene these rules, and if he has to go to the US he will abide by them. Just that he thinks they’re bullshit. Every country’s got bullshit bureaucratic rules. The new US immigration procedures are particularly pointless, but then again, they pale into insignificance alongside the amount of hassle I’m having trying to import an Irish car into the UK. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359/40 "2006-03-07T20:13:19Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Don’t take me too seriously: I wasn’t really having a dig - it was just a wide open goal for an easy punchline.Which is precisely what **pjen** is saying. He’s not seeking to contravene these rules, and if he has to go to the US he will abide by them. Just that he thinks they’re bullshit. > > Every country’s got bullshit bureaucratic rules. The new US immigration procedures are particularly pointless, but then again, they pale into insignificance alongside the amount of hassle I’m having trying to import an Irish car into the UK. How’s that whole EU thing working out for ya? 🙂 Here’s the problem I have with the OP. He reads something about the US that he doesn’t like, but doesn’t understand. Instead of first trying to understand, he opens a Pit thread to bash the US. Question silly procedures all you want, but make sure you at least try to understand them before you bash them. You can hurt your nose with your knee that way if you’re not careful! And, the OP couldn’t even be troubled to provide a link-- always throws up suspicion if you ask me. Just off the top of my head, this seems like a neutral move, at worst, but possibly a smart one. What the hell difference does it make if you do this on the take-off end or the landing end? You’re going to “slow things down” somewhere. But, if you are going to do it, why do it on the landing end? That only allows a reactive response if a red flag is raised. By having this information before take-off, you can be proactive. But I’m just speculating. Here’s some info from the US Customs web site concerning the details of the program that I assume this rant is about. It doesn’t really go into the reasons for the program, but does outline what has to be done. [Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) Fact Sheet](http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/inspections_carriers_facilities/apis/apis_factsheet.xml) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rant-us-immigration/347359.md?page=3)