# Rantings about stupid nuclear reporting, and I want to bitchslap somebody, also other crap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077 "2011-03-26T19:11:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/441 "2011-03-30T22:34:11Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > [Radiation Dosage Chart — Information is Beautiful](http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/radiation-dosage-chart/) > > Fucking dumb ass. You do NOT fucking get .1 mSv from eating a banana, and it should be mSv/hr or mSv/year, or something because that is the correct fucking way to describe a DOSE of radiation. You idiot. > > “Well, what does it do then?” > > The major natural cause of radioactivity in biomass is [potassium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium). In the natural mix of potassium found in food, the human body and throughout nature , 0.0117% is an unstable [isotope](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope), [potassium-40](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-40) (abbreviated 40K). This isotope decays extremely slowly, it has a [half-life](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life) of about a billion years (4×10[sup]16[/sup] s). Therefore, out of a gram of potassium about 30 atoms disintegrate per second, or in other words the activity of potassium is 30 [Bq](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becquerel) g-1.[[3]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose#cite_note-2) An average banana contains about half a gram of potassium.[[4]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose#cite_note-3) Therefore it will have an activity of 15 Bq. > > The additional radioactivity of the BED is only delivered by the proximity of a banana, or for a short period after eating a banana, rather than being a long-term increase in dosage. This is because consuming the banana will only cause a temporary increase in the quantity of [radioisotope](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope) enclosed by the body. The human body maintains potassium under [homeostasis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis), at a fairly constant level.[[5]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose#cite_note-homeostasis-4) > > Therefore, **eating an extra banana will not cause more potassium to be assimilate into the body than would otherwise have occurred**. Instead it will cause the body to excrete potassium more quickly until the level is returned to what it was beforehand. > > Because the half-life of 40K is so long compared to biological time-scales and because the ratio in food is the same as that in the body, the isotopic ratio will stay the same. **The dosage which the body absorbs from the potassium it contains is approximately 0.40 mSv/year.** [[6]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose#cite_note-epa-5) > > Got it? It is 0.0001 mSv or 0.1 nano Sievert. You don’t need to say Sv/day or Sv/month, that would be for a regular dose. One-time shots are that. Are you saying that at the moment I eat a banana my body exceretes potassium? let’s say I ate a banana at 4 pm and not pee or crap until 10 pm that my body makes some Potssium disappear? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/442 "2011-03-30T22:37:43Z")
Unless you can produce a published peer reviewed study proving your point, it’s just conjecture on your part. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/443 "2011-03-30T22:51:50Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Unless you can produce a published peer reviewed study proving your point, it’s just conjecture on your part. I think “conjecture” based on basic math and the conservation of mass is a pretty sure bet, peer reviewed study or not. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/444 "2011-03-30T23:53:01Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It is 0.0001 mSv or 0.1 nano Sievert. The first bit’s right, but that makes it a _micro_sievert not a _nano_Sievert. In any case, 1000 times smaller than FX thinks it’s saying. And FX’s followup implicit endorsement of alchemy is most amusing. ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/445 "2011-03-31T00:22:33Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Unless you can produce a published peer reviewed study proving your point, it’s just conjecture on your part. Here’s a piece of non-conjecture: YOU critiqued a chart for claiming a radiation dose of 0.1 mSv when in fact you READ IT WRONG and were out by a factor of x1000. You complained that a chart of DOSES should be given as rates, which is flat out wrong. (There is an error of that type in the chart, but you missed it. “Idiot” yourself.) And YOU gave a cite stating: “The _additional_ radioactivity of the BED is only delivered by the proximity of a banana, or _for a short period after eating a banana_, rather than being a long-term increase in dosage. This is because consuming the banana will only cause a temporary increase in the quantity of radioisotope enclosed by the body.” (italics mine.) Here’s a little basic math for you: the DOSE you get is equal to the DOSE RATE multiplied by the TIME of exposure. So a dose rate of e.g. 0.1 mSv per hour and a ten hour exposure would result in a DOSE of 1 mSv. And since your own cite indicates that eating a banana results in you being subjected to “additional” radioactivity “for a short period after eating the banana” then you WILL get a dose from eating a banana. Screw your semantics about minutiae. You are very rarely correct about _anything_ and never attempt to address any refutation of your crap; you just post some other incorrect crap, or say the thread’s a rant and so shouldn’t be technical, or make some other evasion. Well fuck it. You pretty much are completely ignored already outside of the Pit. Learn how to actually _engage_ or get used to talking to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/446 "2011-03-31T00:42:35Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > The first bit’s right, but that makes it a _micro_sievert not a _nano_Sievert. In any case, 1000 times smaller than FX thinks it’s saying. > > And FX’s followup implicit endorsement of alchemy is most amusing. :smack::smack::smack::smack: Gaudere’s law met the SI. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/447 "2011-03-31T01:00:50Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > :smack::smack::smack::smack: Gaudere’s law \*\*met \*\*the SI. Double heh 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/448 "2011-03-31T01:03:34Z")
> [@matt](#): > > Here’s a piece of non-conjecture: YOU critiqued a chart for claiming a radiation dose of 0.1 mSv when in fact you READ IT WRONG and were out by a factor of x1000. You complained that a chart of DOSES should be given as rates, which is flat out wrong. Now THAT is more like it. You even did the capitalization thing, which NO RANT SHOULD BE WITH OUT!! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/449 "2011-03-31T01:05:05Z")
If you take a look back at the OP itself, (which it seems like nobody did?!?), it has a huge glaring mistake in it. I’m starting to think nobody is going to try and ream me about it. Which means I WILL HAVE TO DO IT!! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/450 "2011-03-31T01:26:03Z")
> [@matt](#): > > “The _additional_ radioactivity of the BED is only delivered by the proximity of a banana, or _for a short period after eating a banana_, rather than being a long-term increase in dosage. This is because consuming the banana will only cause a temporary increase in the quantity of radioisotope enclosed by the body.” (italics mine.) > > Here’s a little basic math for you: the DOSE you get is equal to the DOSE RATE multiplied by the TIME of exposure. So a dose rate of e.g. 0.1 mSv per hour and a ten hour exposure would result in a DOSE of 1 mSv. After watching the latest round of extremely bad news, I find myself wanting to dive deep into every last tiny bit of the RADIATION DOSE chart that we are ‘fighting’ over. It would be way more fun. ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/451 "2011-03-31T04:16:29Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > After watching the latest round of extremely bad news, I find myself wanting to dive deep into every last tiny bit of the RADIATION DOSE chart that we are ‘fighting’ over. It would be way more fun. We’re not fighting. You screwed up and got it wrong. Own it. Since you’re using your “sudden attack of concern” evasion, [not for the first time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13599607&postcount=815), it might be an idea to give the details of whatever marginal-credibility, days-out-of-date news report you’ve decided to completely misinterpret today. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/452 "2011-03-31T04:45:25Z")
Oh please. There is no radiation dose from eating a banana. How hard is that to grasp? You can eat two bananas a day, you do not end up with 730 times more ‘radiation’ from the potassium in the bananas. Just look at the figures, it’s obvious. It says .1 microSv from banana, yet the total radiation in your entire body (from potassium) is .4 microSv. It’s not 73.4 microSv after eating bananas for a year. It doesn’t work like that. Is it possible you really can’t grasp this? I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Nobody can be that stupid. You must be joshing me. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/453 "2011-03-31T04:48:11Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > The first bit’s right, but that makes it a _micro_sievert not a _nano_Sievert. Since I linked to the chart, and was using the chart figures, most people could figure out the meaning, the point. But a real tool will look for anything, any small typo, error or something, rather than deal with the issue. Like how people want to talk about coal. “Hey! There’s a huge fucking problem with a nuclear power plant!” Really? You do know that coal is way more dangerous, right? “Are you a fucking moron or what?” ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/454 "2011-03-31T05:40:06Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh please. There is no radiation dose from eating a banana. How hard is that to grasp? You can eat two bananas a day, you do not end up with 730 times more ‘radiation’ from the potassium in the bananas. Just look at the figures, it’s obvious. > > It says .1 microSv from banana, yet the total radiation in your entire body (from potassium) is .4 microSv. It’s not 73.4 microSv after eating bananas for a year. It doesn’t work like that. > > Is it possible you really can’t grasp this? I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Nobody can be that stupid. You must be joshing me. Strawman bullshit. I don’t care about the exact figures, I care about the fact that you misread micro as milli, and that you still don’t seem to get the fact that you WILL get a dose from eating a banana. Totally insignificant, but while that mouthful of banana is sliding down your throat into your stomach, the potassium in it is irradating the cells around it. Your body won’t instantly spit out a little pellet of its own potassium to compensate. I’m quite happy to acknowledge that the chart itself has a lot wrong with it - e.g. the “0.4 microsieverts” for the “human body” should be explained as a year’s exposure and that figure’s wrong anyway - it should be 0.4 **milli** sieverts. Chances are the chart’s got the banana calculation completely wrong as well, but it won’t be zero. But anyway, we should move on from nitpicking the banana and onto the woeful “latest round of very bad news” that you haven’t elaborated on. Whatever it is, I suspect you’ll have got it completely wrong as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/455 "2011-03-31T05:45:15Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh please. There is no radiation dose from eating a banana. How hard is that to grasp? You can eat two bananas a day, you do not end up with 730 times more ‘radiation’ from the potassium in the bananas. Just look at the figures, it’s obvious. > > It says .1 microSv from banana, yet the total radiation in your entire body (from potassium) is .4 microSv. It’s not 73.4 microSv after eating bananas for a year. It doesn’t work like that. > > Is it possible you really can’t grasp this? I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Nobody can be that stupid. You must be joshing me. Actually, yes, yes it does. That’s the whole point of Sieverts as a unit. Your idea that Sieverts must be paired with a time domain is also wrong, by the way. It’s perfectly plausible to say “A banana contains an average of so many Becquerels of Potassium-40, therefore that delivers a specific amount of radioactive events per hour, and it takes the average person long enough to digest said banana and excrete the excess potassium that it amounts to a .1 μSv dose”. Basically, at this point your only hope is to explain that you’re sorry, but you had a brain hemorrhage or something functionally equivalent. Believe me, I know what it’s like to have a bad week and flame out (I did it last month, due to sleep deprivation plus new dad stress), but at some point you have to admit that’s what’s happening, or else you’re going to remain just another misinformed, fearmongering, knee-jerking anti-nuclear chucklefuck. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/456 "2011-03-31T12:57:45Z")
There you go again. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/457 "2011-03-31T13:12:46Z")
> [@matt](#): > > I don’t care about the exact figures,… That’s called “leading with your face” in a fight. > [@matt](#): > > But anyway, we should move on from nitpicking the banana and onto the woeful “latest round of very bad news” that you haven’t elaborated on. Whatever it is, I suspect you’ll have got it completely wrong as usual. I sort of envy the delusional, they no doubt suffer much less stress about the world. One of the benefits of being a true believer. Sadly, I can’t turn off my skeptical mind. Curses. One issue that is just beyond belief, is the seeming lack of neutron detectors. This is key information, you really want to know about possible chain reactions going on. Three weeks after the problem started, you really might want to check for a possible problem. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/458 "2011-03-31T13:23:43Z")
Interesting article here which goes into good detail on the actual risks of the levels of radioactivity seen in Japan: > **[Viewpoint: We should stop running away from radiation](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12860842)** > > A sea-change is needed in attitudes to radiation, argues Oxford University physicist Wade Allison. Makes a rather nice comparison as well: > [@](#): > > Chernobyl? The latest UN report published on 28 February confirms the known death toll - 28 fatalities among emergency workers, plus 15 fatal cases of child thyroid cancer - which would have been avoided if iodine tablets had been taken (as they have now in Japan). And in each case the numbers are minute compared with the 3,800 at Bhopal in 1984, who died as a result of a leak of chemicals from the Union Carbide pesticide plant. > > So what of the radioactivity released at Fukushima? How does it compare with that at Chernobyl? Let’s look at the measured count rates. The highest rate reported, at 1900 on 22 March, for any Japanese prefecture was 12 kBq per sq m (for the radioactive isotope of caesium, caesium-137). > > A map of Chernobyl in the UN report shows regions shaded according to rate, up to 3,700 kBq per sq m - areas with less than 37 kBq per sq m are not shaded at all. In round terms, this suggests that the radioactive fallout at Fukushima is less than 1% of that at Chernobyl. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/459 "2011-03-31T13:24:58Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > There you go again. How can you guys still not think this guy is trolling? I am honestly bewildered at this point. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/460 "2011-03-31T13:25:33Z")
I guess radiation in the ocean doesn’t count. Yeah, that’s it. Let’s just ignore the radioactive material dumping into the ocean, then everything looks great. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077.md?page=24)