# Rantings about stupid nuclear reporting, and I want to bitchslap somebody, also other crap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077 "2011-03-26T19:11:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1221 "2011-08-21T15:50:33Z")
I was told to come and post here. At least that’s what I heard. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1222 "2011-08-21T16:00:27Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > If you are the percent that gets cancer from exposure to radiation from a blown to hell reactor, or in this case three reactors, the odds don’t matter. Bahhh… That’s just a decline in unsatisfied customers…which is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1223 "2011-08-21T17:16:51Z")
Fuck it, revisiting the disaster still sucks. There just isn’t way to spin it to make it better. Here are some points (mostly unanswered of course). And the posts that contained the following. 1:Top officials revealed they had no plan to deal with such a disaster. Not for one reactor, certainly not for multiple ones. 2: Resources were not ready, or don’t even exist, to deal with a serious nuclear disaster. 3:When radiation is high, they can’t even measure it. Even the best equipment stops at 10 Sv/hr, so levels over that are a guess. 4: Damaged and radioactive buildings can’t be entered or measured, even with robots. 5:Not knowing what is going on is a serious serious problem, because if you can’t measure or observe something you can’t know what to do to fix it. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > That rabid nuclear moonbats don’t get it, that is understandable. I can’t blame a true believer for refusing to watch a video interview with a top nuclear official. > > But when you realize the top officials simply don’t want to think about it, much less prepare any way to deal with it, that is where it gets fucked up. > > There isn’t any plan, much less equipment and resources, ready to go, for a single reactor disaster. Nothing is in place, no drills have been done, there isn’t even a plan to start a plan, to deal with an emergency situation, IN JUST ONE REACTOR problem. > > No there are four critically damaged reactors, and shitload of damaged fuel pools, and there is simply nothing ready to deal with it. > > Not only is there no technology ready, there probably isn’t any way to create technology for this. Quite simply, they can’t discover what is happening, because the radiation level is too high for a human, or a robot, or even a camera on a stick to see what is happening. > > Which is why over two week after this terrific fuck up has happened, they simply don’t know what is going on. > > That won’t bother a true believer, but it bothers a rational person. That is insane. It’s the worst kind of situation possible. Extreme danger, and no way to know what the danger actually is. > > It seems they can’t even sample the steam coming out of the multitudes of holes and unknown areas, to find out what the isotopes are there. Which would at least give some idea of how bad it is. Nuclear deniers were insisting little radioactive material escaped, that there was little danger. > [@levdrakon](#): > > You’ve shown time and time again you’re expert at missing current headlines and denying everything as it happens, even as it’s happening. Are you still denying that there is any radiation from \*inside \*the plants, now on the outside? You had me laughing all yesterday over that one. When valid points were brought up, including links to the sources, insults and ignoring were the common response. They still are, and the idiots actually think that means they are winning. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > I ranted about the 60 minutes show right after it came on the air > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13595161&postcount=674](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13595161&postcount=674) > > The points were ignored then as well. Which is why I consider a lot of posts trolls here. > > Anything to avoid discussing the issues. I noted that nuclear EXPERTS, people who know their shit, said it was a level 7, but the deniers danced around the issue of course. > [@xtisme](#): > > So…no cite showing that it’s been upgraded to a level 7 has, as yet, been forthcoming. What happened to that? Care to comment, levdrakon? And I STILL haven’t heard that ‘there is deadly levels of radioactive material outside of the containment BUILDING’. Do you happen to have a cite showing that there is? … Of course now it’s “official” but you would have to be brain dead not to know after the fourth huge explosion, and everyone abandoning the plant, that it was as bad as it gets with out total fucking chaos and horror. We also were subjected to the following shitpostings > [@xtisme](#): > > It’s now the 29th of March. By using a clever technique called ‘subtraction’, I calculate that this was 9 days ago. So…has there been a large explosion of the pools holding the spent fuel rods? Has there been a full on meltdown and fire? This was AFTER multiple explosions, fires, massive radioactive releases, and a full on desperate effort to stop it from getting any worse. But this assclown was still trying to downplay the whole thing. > [@xtisme](#): > > Hon? 😛 So, there are dangerous levels of radioactive material ‘outside’ the plant in a tunnel that sounds like it’s a pipe underground (they go back and forth on whether it’s a trench or ‘tunnel-like trench’, so no idea what that means)…which, if it IS a pipe underground connecting it to the contaminated water, would read that high, but would say nothing about how this would be relevant, since while technically ‘outside’, is really in a pipe connecting it to the plant, and says nothing about whether this outside pipe is contaminating the grounds at that same rate. This was in response to the massive loss of containment from the sea water leaking out of the buildings. We now know of course there was other release of material, especially through the air. The latest deadly radioactive material found is over 10Sv/hr, and that is through thick metal pipe. Going back to the first points, they simply have no way of dealing with it. There are no robots or machines to cut the pipe and remove it, and even if they did, no place to put it. yet. So they just avoid the area. That’s the fucking solution when things get bad, avoid the radiation. For a very long time. > [@levdrakon](#): > > You are not being fair. I think that parade of clowns is frighteningly smart. > > Think about it. 50 years ago the fledgling nuclear power industry pulled off one of the most expensive and costly (to us, not them) scams ever in the history of humankind. > > They sold us this crap with the promise things would be cool for 50 years and of course, in 1960 telling people things will be all wonderful and flying cars around the year 2010 was easier and far more profitable than their usual stealing candy from babies. > > So here we are, dealing with the problems they promised would never be a problem. We fell for it. Fool me once, and all that. > > I’m not going to let them get away with it again, especially now when we’re supposed to actually pretend to be serious about energy, and how we get it. > > … While simplistic, the essential point is true. Nuclear power is expensive, dangerous, and they fucking lied about it all. The deniers still trying to support the myth are truly fucked. It’s no wonder they want people to stop ranting about it. It must suck to lose so horribly. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1224 "2011-08-21T17:46:57Z")
[QUOTE=FXMastermind] Of course now it’s “official” but you would have to be brain dead not to know after the fourth huge explosion, and everyone abandoning the plant, that it was as bad as it gets with out total fucking chaos and horror. [/QUOTE] It is, but at the time there wasn’t enough data to make that call, and there was nothing more than speculation. Which is why you couldn’t find a cite for it, despite being asked repeatedly for it. And why no one made a big deal about it when they did OFFICIALLY bump up the severity level. What you never got out of those requests was that people were trying to tell you that there wasn’t any magical method to gather the data and make a snap call. The disaster was ongoing and the task of even trying to evaluate what was going on in the wake of the double whammy of huge earth quake and tsunami, and the logistical and communications that those two things caused were monumental. And, you STILL don’t get it, obviously, based on the above. You might be able to teach an old dogs new tricks, but though you can lead an FXM to water it’s obviously impossible to make it think. I have heard that you can beat it to death in mid-stream before looking it in the mouth to see if it’s a good gift, though… > [@](#): > > This was AFTER multiple explosions, fires, massive radioactive releases, and a full on desperate effort to stop it from getting any worse. But this assclown was still trying to downplay the whole thing. Um, no…I wasn’t downplaying what happened, trying to clarify what was known at the time instead of speculating out of my ass and attempting to allow fear and panic to cloud the entire thread. And, again, look at the freaking date stamp on my post, you fucking idiot. > [@](#): > > This was in response to the massive loss of containment from the sea water leaking out of the buildings. We now know of course there was other release of material, especially through the air. Um, no. The release into the sea was planned, actually…they did it because releasing the material stored in their radioactive waste water storage tanks freed them up to be able to start pumping the more highly radioactive sea water that was in the facilities due to attempts to cool the reactors with sea water. What you quoted was talking about the possibility of leaks from the piping infrastructure outside of the plant, and, again, there was very little hard data to go on at that time. What hard data there was (as opposed to your ridiculous speculations) was presented, and most of the more rational posters were taking a wait and see position to see what the ACTUAL extent of the damage was. As it turned out it was somewhere between the frantic handwringing of folks like you and the sunnier hopes and more upbeat speculations of your ‘pro-nuclear’ strawman crowd. > [@](#): > > The latest deadly radioactive material found is over 10Sv/hr, and that is through thick metal pipe. Going back to the first points, they simply have no way of dealing with it. There are no robots or machines to cut the pipe and remove it, and even if they did, no place to put it. yet. But, you see, that’s spot radiation, not an indication of a general loss of containment, which is what you were getting at all along. You constantly were bringing up that the reactors ‘melted down’ (though it was obviously that you didn’t understand what that meant). While there was evidence of a melt down (of the core, or several of the cores) there is still no hard evidence of a general loss of containment of any of the reactors…just leaks, which is a different thing. And, again, you would have to check the date stamp on my comments to put them into a context (I note with some mirth that you didn’t actually link to my posts, just quoted them). I’m unsure what you think all of this proves, but I’m sure you think it proves something about, um, something. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1225 "2011-08-21T17:51:44Z")
“Captain’s log, stardate…” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1226 "2011-08-21T17:52:44Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You might be able to teach an old dogs new tricks, but though you can lead an FXM to water it’s obviously impossible to make it think. I have heard that you can beat it to death in mid-stream before looking it in the mouth to see if it’s a good gift, though… We’ll burn that bridge when we get to it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1227 "2011-08-21T18:11:14Z")
He can’t help it. It’s his nature. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1228 "2011-08-21T18:55:46Z")
It’s an assclown parade today. No matter, despite the fervent \*belief \* of the denier, reality marches on. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1229 "2011-08-21T21:00:37Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > How about a reliable, English-language cite about the aggregate increased dosage across Japan? It’s quite easy to translate Japanese to English > **[浪江町ホームページ トップページ](https://www.town.namie.fukushima.jp/?p=6455)** > > 浪江町公式ホームページです。 Namie Tsushima School High School (Location Measurement Unit: H = 1.0m above the ground: μSv / h) (July 15) 17.40 μSv / h This is 152424 μSv / yr, or 152.5 mSv/yr To compare, 2.95 mSv/yr is an estimated ‘natural background yearly dose’ By Mar 24, 2011 it was evident the disaster had equaled Chernobyl in amounts of material released into the air. > **[Report: Emissions from Japan plant approach Chernobyl levels](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/03/report-radioactive-emissions-from-japan-plant-approach-chernobyl-levels/1)** > > Emissions of radioactive iodine and cesium from the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant have approached levels after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986, New Scientist reports. The amounts that fell into the ocean were never measured, and won’t be known until the far future. None of that comes close to the 266 Sv/h for the gas/steam inside the primary containment (drywell) of reactor unit 1 on July 3rd, 2011 (note the reading is not micro or milli Sv, but Sv/h) [http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1](http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1) No English sources? I know. It’s like it didn’t even happen if you just read western media. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1230 "2011-08-21T21:34:46Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > The amounts that fell into the ocean were never measured, and won’t be known until the far future. And I’m sure you’ll be here updating us when this thread gets to page 80. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1231 "2011-08-21T22:39:15Z")
Nah, we will all be long dead before they ever determine how much core material was lost. Unless they invent awesome robots that can withstand gamma rays and shit like that. We still don’t know how much of the core at Chernobyl was ejected or burnt. It may never be known. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1232 "2011-08-22T02:46:38Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s quite easy to translate Japanese to English I actually choked, I was laughing so hard at this statement. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1233 "2011-08-22T02:51:08Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I actually choked All your mace are belong to us? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1234 "2011-08-22T03:06:40Z")
Well, truth be told it’s a lot easier when you know somebody who speaks both ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1235 "2011-08-22T03:18:18Z")
Yeah, so for the rest of us, who have no incentive to trust you and no Japanese friends closer than a 4-hour drive, how about you pony up something worth reading? I know you have it in you to do it just once in your life, in between the strawmen and pretending that we all have omniscient time-spanning information. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1236 "2011-08-22T05:03:14Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s quite easy to translate Japanese to English > [http://www.town.namie.fukushima.jp/?p=6455](http://www.town.namie.fukushima.jp/?p=6455) > > Namie Tsushima School High School > (Location Measurement Unit: H = 1.0m above the ground: μSv / h) > (July 15) > 17.40 μSv / h > > This is 152424 μSv / yr, or 152.5 mSv/yr > > To compare, 2.95 mSv/yr is an estimated ‘natural background yearly dose’ Man, I love this “Worst Disaster Ever” thread. It’s like The A-Team TV series: lots of action and no one dies. Sorry; converting a per-hour figure into a per-year figure is like saying that because I ate two hamburgers between 2 and 3, I’ll eat 17520 in a year. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1237 "2011-08-22T15:12:50Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Thank you, I didn’t realize converting a per-hour figure into a per-year figure allows risk assessment like that. But doesn’t the rate go down over time? Yes, rain can wash some radiocesium deeper, or cause it to collect in low areas, and in fact drains and sewers are where they find much higher readings. Remember these are air measurements at one meter above the ground. You move the meter a half meter closer and the dose is four times higher. You consume the radiocesium and the dose becomes completely different. But after twelve years, with no clean up, the radiocesium would be around half of what it is now. Less contaminated areas are being cleaned by removing the soil, and where that soil ends up is now of course, a huge issue. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1238 "2011-08-22T15:13:50Z")
Yeah, I did do the same thing some asshat did, changing the quoted response. But I did it to further a conversation, not just to be an insulting dickbag. It’s how I roll. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1239 "2011-08-22T15:22:05Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I have stats from people I trust, but … blah blah blah blah … The poor soul reading the thread hoping for some actual news and real data would benefit from any valid source. Your selfish petty ego problem is depriving them of some content. You should feel bad. Of course we all know you are full of shit and would counter in an instant with any source, the problem is there isn’t anything for you to bring to the table. In other news, a good news update from Tepco [http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-fukushima/20110821/0700\_1gouki.html](http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-fukushima/20110821/0700_1gouki.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1240 "2011-08-22T16:50:53Z")
Nobody is reading this for news. It’s long since degenerated into an ego-driven shitfest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077.md?page=63)