# Rantings about stupid nuclear reporting, and I want to bitchslap somebody, also other crap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077 "2011-03-26T19:11:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1261 "2011-08-23T22:47:23Z")
North Anna nuclear plant declared emergency, vented steam after earthquake. > **[Virginia nuclear plant shut down by quake](http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/23/virginia.quake.nuclear/)** > > Tuesday's Virginia earthquake triggered the shutdown of a nearby nuclear power plant and spurred declarations of "unusual events" at plants as far away as Michigan, U.S. authorities reported. They are running on generators after losing grid power. That doesn’t explain why they vented steam. > **[News and Insights](https://www.nasdaq.com/news-and-insights)** > > Get the latest news and analysis in the stock market today, including national and world stock market news, business news, financial news and more A slightly larger quake and two reactors could fail there. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1262 "2011-08-23T22:56:24Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > North Anna nuclear plant declared emergency, vented steam after earthquake. > . OMG…High temp gaseous dihydrogen monoxide! Run away! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1263 "2011-08-23T23:10:38Z")
The steam loop and the internal cooling loop are two different things in a Westinghouse PWR reactor like North Anna, and venting steam pretty much expressly CAN’T be from the hot loop. As I understand the engineering–and I’ll try to confirm this with my buddy who actually works on these reactors–venting steam with surplus water available at the site is a way of cooling a reactor to cold shutdown faster than just using the normal third stage condenser loop. Now, unfortunately for everyone, the current North Anna plants are not capable of passively shutting down, so I hope to Christ those idiots have their local diesel generation ducks in a goddamn row. Interestingly, they’ve recently started work on a 1700MW Generation-III+ APWR reactor at that site. I’m going to have to eagerly follow that–the APWR designs are SUPPOSED to be passive-cooling capable in a shutdown situation, but I’m not happy with the Westinghouse AP1000’s system and I can’t find anything useful on the system in the US-APWR Mitsubishi design that North Anna’s planning. Also notable, the APWR designs are both capable of doing SOME work to reduce waste fuel–while they aren’t as efficient as fast-breeder designs, they ARE capable of using mixed-oxide fuels–practically speaking, that means they can burn fuel with a percentage of plutonium, reducing the worst long-term waste. Also, regarding “unusual event” reports, the earthquake itself with no damage is a reportable “unusual event”–the definition is “Incidents which threaten the normal operation or security of a facility may be reportable but not result in any release of radioactivity.” ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1264 "2011-08-23T23:27:44Z")
A normal scram with auto shutdown should not result in steam being vented. It seems the loss of grid power, and a failure in one of the four diesels led to a problem that caused emergency venting. The earthquake triggered an auto shut down, but the loss of power and one back up generator meant they declared an emergency. Nothing to worry about. Unless the next quake is a 6.3, or the dam fails. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1265 "2011-08-24T02:42:27Z")
[http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/23/virginia-nuclear-plant-had-quake-sensors-removed-due-to-budget-cuts/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/23/virginia-nuclear-plant-had-quake-sensors-removed-due-to-budget-cuts/) \ Earthquake sensors were removed from the Virginia nuke plants in the 90s, because of budget cuts. It sits on a fault line. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1266 "2011-08-24T04:01:33Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > A normal scram with auto shutdown should not result in steam being vented. It seems the loss of grid power, and a failure in one of the four diesels led to a problem that caused emergency venting. The earthquake triggered an auto shut down, but the loss of power and one back up generator meant they declared an emergency. > > Nothing to worry about. Unless the next quake is a 6.3, or the dam fails. Meh, every news report I see thus far indicates that the steam venting was a decision made under normal emergency shutdown protocols. Cite otherwise? Lol, dam. You mean the dam that’s downstream from the plant, and if it goes will drain the nearby lake some? > [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/23/virginia-nuclear-plant-had-quake-sensors-removed-due-to-budget-cuts/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/23/virginia-nuclear-plant-had-quake-sensors-removed-due-to-budget-cuts/) > \ Earthquake sensors were removed from the Virginia nuke plants in the 90s, because of budget cuts. It sits on a fault line. See, FX, if you’d have linked THIS story, instead of making up some random bullshit, you’d have a better case. This corner-cutting idiocy is the kind of stupid shit that needs to stop. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1267 "2011-08-24T04:05:34Z")
I got my info from an official report. I stopped caring about links. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1268 "2011-08-24T04:27:21Z")
Translation of FX’s last post: “I am making shit up, as usual.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1269 "2011-08-24T07:02:02Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Too tired to rant today. Just more bad news. > [http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-fukushima/20110823/0445\_jokusenryo.html](http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-fukushima/20110823/0445_jokusenryo.html) > > Helicopter measurements of radiation finally being done. It’s far worse than even the alarmists predicted. Poor Japan, worse than Chernobyl. > > [http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-fukushima/20110823/0445\_hoshikusa.html](http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-fukushima/20110823/0445_hoshikusa.html) > > Seems even when feed was used that wasn’t contaminated somehow radiation contaminated it. > > [http://www.47news.jp/CN/201108/CN2011082201001124.html](http://www.47news.jp/CN/201108/CN2011082201001124.html) > > Due to high radiation the new radiation removal system is fucked. No workers were dosed enough to die, but now they can’t get near the damn equipment. > > [http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110604x1.html](http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110604x1.html) > > While they still won’t release what is in the steam coming from the reactors, we know it’s bad. > > [http://mainichi.jp/select/wadai/news/20110823k0000e040061000c.html](http://mainichi.jp/select/wadai/news/20110823k0000e040061000c.html) > > They don’t know why, but cesium is sticking to the pipes. The levels are deadly to workers. Of course they avoided the fuck out of the area, but even so many workers exposed to high doses. > > What a nightmare. Winter is coming, and with snow things will truly be fucked if they don’t get the buildings covered. Wait a minute, let me see if I’m understanding you correctly… so your stance is that a nuclear reactor accident is a bad thing, is that right? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1270 "2011-08-24T10:14:27Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The steam loop and the internal cooling loop are two different things in a Westinghouse PWR reactor like North Anna, and venting steam pretty much expressly CAN’T be from the hot loop. If you would provide a source or three, and explain the reasons and technology behind your claim, it would be a lot cooler than just saying it. No seriously. Because you are saying it’s impossible for a Westinghouse PWR to vent steam from the RPV, or the containment structure. Which is pure bullshit of course. Of course it CAN be, because otherwise the pressure might damage the RPV, which is a very bad thing. Why the US reactors are much safer > **[Pressurized Water reactor (PWR)](http://www.nucleartourist.com/type/pwr.htm)** The Lake Anna specs [http://library.thinkquest.org/25916/database/virginia.htm](http://library.thinkquest.org/25916/database/virginia.htm) A graphic [![](http://www.nucleartourist.com/images/rcs-c2.jpg) ](http://www.nucleartourist.com/images/rcs-c2.jpg) See? That shit helps people understand the situation. Now of course the steam was most likely from the secondary loop. Otherwise all hell would be breaking out if the highly radioactive steam from the core was vented. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1271 "2011-08-24T10:29:08Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > This corner-cutting idiocy is the kind of stupid shit that needs to stop. Yeah, but the thing is, you can’t make it stop. Like the Lake Anna situation. There is no back up plan for a dam failure. It’s the same with a lot of nuclear plants. The plant might be safe enough for a 6.1 earthquake, but not for a loss of cooling water, or worse, a flood from a dam failure. And it cost money, a lot of it, to build a back up cooling system that can work with loss of primary water. Money is probably the main reason nuclear plants, even the old ones, are so dangerous. And then there is the spent fuel problem, a much worse problem. Pretending it won’t ever happen is not a solution to a catastrophic disaster. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1272 "2011-08-24T12:50:26Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Wait a minute, let me see if I’m understanding you correctly… so your stance is that a nuclear reactor accident is a bad thing, is that right? Oh please. That’s the best trollin you got? Of course, maybe you really are a brain damaged moron who can’t be bothered to read a single thing, but still needs the ego boost of pwning somebody with your high caliber wit. Is that it? Here, let me put this double barreled sawed off thought gun in your mouth. > [@](#): > > The BBQ Pit is the forum for rants about the outside world [Revised Forum Rules for the BBQ Pit: read this shit before posting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985) Oh snap, you mean there is an entire forum to rant about shit? So why the butthurt? Why a new thread to try and shut down a discussion, the only discussion, about a huge disaster that is still going on? Why the begging to stop people from, you know, posting in a thread? What is really bugging you oh butthurt ones? Are pro nuclears really that low life? Don’t answer that, we already know. Meanwhile, in the real world, they got power back to the damaged nuclear plant. [http://dom.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1015](http://dom.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1015) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1273 "2011-08-24T14:29:07Z")
Until Godzilla starts rampaging through Southern California, who gives a shit? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1274 "2011-08-24T14:37:27Z")
Even if Godzilla lays waste to all of southern California, who gives a shit? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1275 "2011-08-24T14:49:13Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Wait a minute, let me see if I’m understanding you correctly… so your stance is that a nuclear reactor accident is a bad thing, is that right? As far as I can tell its the floods, dams, earthquakes, and tsunamis that are the real danger. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1276 "2011-08-24T16:17:53Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Money is probably the main reason nuclear plants, even the old ones, are so dangerous. No disagreement here. > [@](#): > > And then there is the spent fuel problem, a much worse problem. Pretending it won’t ever happen is not a solution to a catastrophic disaster. There are valid solutions to the problem of spent fuel, but there are political obstacles to those solutions, not technical ones. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1277 "2011-08-24T16:59:52Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh snap, you mean there is an entire forum to rant about shit? > [@](#): > > Why a new thread to try and shut down a discussion, the only discussion, about a huge disaster that is still going on? It is disingenuous to claim it is a rant and in the same breath complain that nobody wants to have a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1278 "2011-08-24T18:08:46Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh please. That’s the best trollin you got? Of course, maybe you really are a brain damaged moron who can’t be bothered to read a single thing, but still needs the ego boost of pwning somebody with your high caliber wit. Is that it? Well gosh, I guess that showed me. Where do I send the check? Unlike you, who has done so much for the Japanese people (well, like starting this [del]blog[/del] thread, for example - I bet the cards and letters are just pouring in!) I guess I haven’t done my part. > [@](#): > > Here, let me put this double barreled sawed off thought gun in your mouth. > [Revised Forum Rules for the BBQ Pit: read this shit before posting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985) Geez, you got me again. Sigh… I guess I just don’t stand a chance when you bring cites like the above to bear. > [@](#): > > So why the butthurt? Well you’re right that someone around here is butthurt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1279 "2011-08-24T19:16:27Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > There are valid solutions to the problem of spent fuel, but there are political obstacles to those solutions, not technical ones. “There are valid solutions” The China/Russian/French solution? What is the technical fix? Bury it and guard it for the next 100,000 years? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077/1280 "2011-08-24T19:23:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > As far as I can tell its the floods, dams, earthquakes, and tsunamis that are the real danger. That is pretty astute. Add in acts of war, hurricanes and the occasional terrorists diving a 747 into a spent fuel pond, and you got it covered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rantings-about-stupid-nuclear-reporting-and-i-want-to-bitchslap-somebody-also-other-crap/576077.md?page=65)