# RAP is the most versatile music **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [April 20, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974 "2004-04-20T04:29:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/21 "2004-04-20T16:32:30Z")
> [@START](#): > > I was just thinking about how Rap and Hip Hop music can be effectively mixed with … Country, … [Not when the Bellamy Brothers do it.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000002QWU/qid=1082478464/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl15/002-8549768-7889631?v=glance&s=music&n=507846) ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/22 "2004-04-20T16:58:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Eve_ > “Boring?” The OP has admitted he drives around early in the morning “blasting” music in his car. You don’t think this is annoying? I don’t care if it’s rap, show tunes or Bach, his behavior is inexcusable. The fact remains that the only music I herar blasting from cars is rap—I don’t know what the explanation for that may be. I hear hip hop, dance and rock. Incidentally, these are the most popular genres of music. And perhaps we have a different idea of “blasting”. It is possible to have music loud enough to be considered “blasting” without it being heard three blocks away. I read blasting to mean “at an enjoyably loud level.” You seem to be needlessly extrapolating. Anyway, cars move, going to school time isn’t ridiculously early in the morning, and I’m assuming it’s all happening in a public place. If it’s annoying, it’ll be all over soon, and you may just have to accept that in public places not everything can be just how you like it. > [@](#): > > Oh, and Kalhoun is a lady, not a gentleman. If everyone could mentally adjust the pronouns used in my previous post, I’d be grateful. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/23 "2004-04-20T17:08:09Z")
> [@gex gex](#): > > Anyway, cars move, going to school time isn’t ridiculously early in the morning, and I’m assuming it’s all happening in a public place. If it’s annoying, it’ll be all over soon, and you may just have to accept that in public places not everything can be just how you like it. Oh, I have long ago come to terms with the unfortunate fact that a certain number of people are inconsiderate, socially inept, raised-by-wolves total asshats, and always will be. ---
**Author:** ![dook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@dook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dook)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/24 "2004-04-20T18:37:35Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Oh, I have long ago come to terms with the unfortunate fact that a certain number of people are inconsiderate, socially inept, raised-by-wolves total asshats, and always will be. I’ll second that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/25 "2004-04-20T19:05:38Z")
Bing Bing Bing Bing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/26 "2004-04-20T19:40:07Z")
Bling Bling! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/27 "2004-04-20T20:00:36Z")
Why do people get offended by the statement that rap isn’t music? Painting, acting, and stand-up comedy aren’t music, either. Rap is not music, because it doesn’t have a tune. It _is_ an art form, however, and a perfectly legitimate one. I and many other people happen to not like contemporary urban rap, but that’s a judgement on aesthetics (for which there is no accounting), not on artistic merit. ---
**Author:** ![Sketch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Sketch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sketch)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/28 "2004-04-20T20:21:24Z")
> [@Who\_me?](#): > > Everybody is entitled to their opinion. In MY opinion rap is crap without the c. Oh bravo, how original, I didn’t think anyone still thought that’s still cool. :rolleyes: As for the rest of the rap bashers, you all sound like you belong on some old, broken-down porch yelling at kids to get off your lawn. (Because we all know old, uncool people are very concerned about kids on their lawns.) Seriously, I’m not a fan of rap either, but I don’t think that’s an excuse for all the rudeness here whenever rap is mentioned. I’m sure people here wouldn’t take that sort of crap if this was about rock, or classical music. But hey, the rap listeners are in the minority, so let’s just pile on the insults together! This is the sort of group attack mentality that I hate on the SDMB. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/29 "2004-04-20T20:35:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rap is not music, because it doesn’t have a tune. Doesn’t most dance _music_ fail on that count too? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/30 "2004-04-20T20:43:29Z")
> [@Sketch](#): > > Seriously, I’m not a fan of rap either, but I don’t think that’s an excuse for all the rudeness here whenever rap is mentioned. Really, _most_ of the objections have been about rap music played too loudly—especially after the OP admitted to “blasting” it on his way to school. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/31 "2004-04-20T20:49:26Z")
“Rap is nothing but folk music with the melody removed and a lot of profanity thrown in.” -Mark Shubb (Harry Shearer) of The Folksmen ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/32 "2004-04-20T20:57:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Main Entry: mu·sic > Pronunciation: 'myü-zik > Function: noun > Usage: often attributive > Etymology: Middle English musik, from Old French musique, from Latin musica, from Greek mousikE any art presided over by the Muses, especially music, from feminine of mousikos of the Muses, from Mousa Muse > 1 a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony Yep, rap is music. That wraps that one up pretty tightly. And Chronos, the reason people get defensive is because no one says “rap isn’t music” in a literal or factual sense. They say it in the sense of “it’s not the music I grew up with or the music I like so it doesn’t even earn the use of the term.” Understand? ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/33 "2004-04-20T20:58:37Z")
[Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=219320), IMO, is the thread that best deals with the ignorance espoused by the “rap is not music” camp. It’s a great thread. It turns out music is not easily defined. It’s a terrible interesting subject and that thread goes to some pretty cool places over the course of the 4 pages. I’ll repost my initial stand here for anyone who doesn’t want to wade through the long thread (but it really is worth reading): Music is considered to be many things. It’s a pleasing sound to listen to when you’re trying to relax, be entertained, or dance. It’s a compromise between words and sounds. Music is a voice outside of the common talking. It’s a cure for stress, silence, unhappiness, boredom, and other situations. But what does the word “music” really mean? Remember, a dictionary is suggestive tool, not a definitive one. To me, music is the unbounded flow of flattering sounds in a short period of time put together to make a pleasant tune. According to some of my peers, music is “a universal language that everyone enjoys and understands” and “a series of sounds between breaks of silence.” Huey Lewis, an R&B recording artist, once said, “music is a river constantly evolving with no real beginning and certainly no end.” Music isn’t just a combination of words with a tune behind it, but the sounds behind the voices are music, too. Some people may argue that certain types of music are not actually considered music. Four types, techno, R&B, rap, and hip-hop, are in this group of consideration. Because they are all flowing, complimenting, and enjoyable groups of sounds and sometimes words, techno, R&B, rap, and hip-hop are categorized as music. With a blend of harmonious sound but almost no words, or even no words at all, techno is a little different from other types of music. Techno is music that is assembled with samplers, sequencers, synthesizers, and drum machines. In other words, this type of music is produced with high-technology electronics. Contemporary artists like Chemical Brothers and Moby have managed to carry on the techno version of music since the mid-80s. It’s no wonder why some audiences may not include this in the music category. They would say it is fake tunes created by machines and it has no lyrics. Although this is true, techno music still has the sounds that combine to make pleasing, upbeat, fast-paced tunes. After all, a bogus tune is still a tune. It’s good enough to dance to and is most commonly found at raves, parties, and dance clubs. I think techno music definitely fits the definition of music. R&B, also known as rhythm and blues, has very laid-back relaxing beats with beautiful voices singing positive and inspiring lyrics. "The voice. The beat. The groove. More than displays of craft and musicianship-though there’s plenty of that-R&B performances tend to cleanse the soul, creating a catharsis and uplifting the fans. As it originated in the 1940s, this type of black urban popular music blended strong repetitive rhythms, blues-related melodies and harmonic patterns, gospel music, swing, and electric blues instrumentation. With incredible voices, talented singers such as Keith Sweat, Alicia Keys, Lauryn Hill, Macy Gray, Craig David, Deborah Cox, and Destiny’s Child have managed to extend the life of this type of music for several decades. R&B is music for the dance floor, the bedroom, and the church. It was made for all ages to listen to. Since R&B evolved during times of segregation, many artists never received the credit they earned by beginning this style of music. Why might some people not include this in the music category? Some music listeners may believe it has to be upbeat in order to be music. With this weak assumption and the definition of music, the argument that R&B isn’t music is preposterous. Rap, another style of music, has an agreeable flow of words with a continuous combination of sounds behind it. As a verb rap has long meant ‘to express orally’. By this it is implied that occasionally rap artists create their own sounds rather than use instruments. For example, a rapper may halfway cover his mouth with his hand and create beats with his voice and lips. Rap originated in New York in the mid-1970’s as a style of African-American popular music. Now it has spread across the nation through the talents of great rappers. Often containing explicit lyrics and sexual content as some of its characteristics, rap is censored on the radio, television, and edited versions of compact discs. As Quincy Jones puts it: > [@](#): > > It’s no fad, man. And it’s not just a new kind of music. It’s a whole new subculture that’s been invented by the disenfranchised… It may be profane and abrasive, but I think it’s a very powerful and positive force. And it’s the freshest thing that’s happened musically in thirty years. Even though the words of the songs have a blend of sounds behind them, some audiences may throw rap out of the music category. Just because rappers say rather than sing their words, it has been a controversy as to whether rap is or is not music. The Fresh Prince, better known as Will Smith these days, once said, “so long as there’s different types of music, rap will always be around. Besides, there will always be people that can’t sing.” Rap is music without melody and is improvised rhymes performed to a rhythmic accompaniment and therefore it fits the definition of music. There are many different types and styles of music. Some music is upbeat and some is slow paced. It can have several words, just a few words, or no words at all. Music can be spoken or sung, from one range of vocals to all ranges of vocals. From theme songs of television sitcoms and environment-creating beats in movies to radio stations and CD players, music surrounds us and is a big part of everyday life. Most everyone has there own type of music that they enjoy and they surround themselves with. There are many choices to fit each individual’s personality and life style. Techno, R&B, rap and hip-hop are just a few of the many styles of music. Other types include country, classical, blues, and pop. It doesn’t matter what type you enjoy, you will always be able to pick and choose from several different artists and albums. The variety of music is what makes it so wonderful. What makes art art? To a pigeon Michelangelo’s David is just a place to sit and perhaps take a dump. What makes it art is the emotions it inspires in people. Hip-Hop speaks to millions of people. It is a multi-billion dollar a year industry that has people dancing the world over. A culture that arose in the poverty-stricken Bronx has taken their shitty lot in life and used it as the inspiration for an art form that has worked it’s way into every form of popular entertainment: Movies, Television, Commercials, Video Games, Plays, the Internet, and, naturally, Radio. Hip-Hop is a musical force to be reckoned with. It is no fad. It is music. One can have their own opinions on how appealing the whole culture and music is, but claims that rap is not music and does not require talent and/or skill are quite simply expressions of gross ignorance. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/34 "2004-04-20T21:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s a terrible interesting subject Dammit. I meant “terribly interesting”. The subject is not terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Israfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/87869e/32.png) [@Israfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Israfel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/35 "2004-04-20T21:23:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rap is not music, because it doesn’t have a tune. For one thing, you’re going to have to define “tune.” I would assume that “tune” means melody, but since I would call the vocals in rap melody (and you obviously wouldn’t), then I’m going to further assume that tune means a “hummable melody” And such a definition obviously excludes alot of other music as well- what’s the tune to Penderecki’s “Threnody…?” Do you find yourself whistling the melody to Pierrot Lunaire in the shower? Heck, I dare you to find a “tune” in the dense counterpoint and obtuse rhythms of 14th century music. “Tune” (or even melody for that matter) has never been a needed element for something to be called music. And music is not a qualitative term- I also tend to dislike rap and hip-hop, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it’s music. No, as has been stated earlier, there is absolutely no definition for music that can exlude rap without also being forced to exclude other things which are self-evidently music. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/36 "2004-04-20T21:23:26Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Oh, and **Kalhoun** is a lady, not a gentleman. Hey, thanks, doll! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/37 "2004-04-20T21:28:08Z")
> [@gex gex](#): > > I hear hip hop, dance and rock. Incidentally, these are the most popular genres of music. > > And perhaps we have a different idea of “blasting”. It is possible to have music loud enough to be considered “blasting” without it being heard three blocks away. I read blasting to mean “at an enjoyably loud level.” You seem to be needlessly extrapolating. > > Anyway, cars move, going to school time isn’t ridiculously early in the morning, and I’m assuming it’s all happening in a public place. If it’s annoying, it’ll be all over soon, and you may just have to accept that in public places not everything can be just how you like it. > If everyone could mentally adjust the pronouns used in my previous post, I’d be grateful. Actually, I have to agree that rap really IS music. The definition fits. I just happen to think it sounds awful, particularly at super-loud levels. And it all sounds pretty much the same. Pissed off people bitching to a monotonous beat. It’s a living for someone, but it’ll be the death of me! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/38 "2004-04-20T21:44:37Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > And it all sounds pretty much the same. Pissed off people bitching to a monotonous beat. It’s a living for someone, but it’ll be the death of me! You’ve obviously heard about 3 rap songs in your entire life and aren’t interested in hearing more so I’ll make this brief. There have been a few pissed off rappers and rap groups (NWA, for one) but rap is an overwhelmingly positive genre. Exponentially moreso than metal or even today’s “alternative” rock. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/39 "2004-04-20T22:08:32Z")
A few more highlights from that other thread, which I feel are appropriate for this discussion: > [@](#): > > Being a musician requires skill at a given instrument (counting the voice, computers, and samplers as an instrument), and (more importantly) musical intent. An audience that is affected makes it a lock. If someone trys to make music, with the intent of having it perceived as music, and people perceive it as music, then the piece IS music and the creators are musicians. > [@](#): > > The failure is ours if our definitions of music do not include the new and groundbreaking. As a matter of fact, there is an entire festival called the What is Music? festival. These new sounds and styles need to be somehow differentiated from just plain noise. jovan’s post is very helpful in understanding the difference between how we hear music and everyday sounds. It does not matter if a sound is not considered musical, it can still be used musically. > [@](#): > > Whether or not a musical piece fits into a certain notation or conforms to traditional music theory is an interesting discussion, but it’s not a deal breaker when it comes to the question “What makes something musical?” It is the listening that makes it music, just as the viewer is what makes Michalangelo’s David art. Now, it isn’t simply (actually, nothing is simple about defining music) this feature which makes music music; that would pretty much be conforming to the subjective “agreeable music” definition. I would argue, however, that it is the most important feature. If people can dance to it, or more importantly DO dance to it, or use it as music, then I would have to say that it is music. It may not be good music, it may not be music that I like, but the fact that someone somewhere does goes a long way to making it music as far as I am concerned. > [@](#): > > Music is an experience, and need not necessarily fit into a pre-defined set of mathematic equations, nor must it be culturally relevant, nor must it really have a melody, but all of these things CAN be important factors. It seems that something about the way we are built is responsible for us being so effected by music. If a group of sounds tend to speak to this part of us (or this part of some of us), it should probably be referred to as music. > [@](#): > > Music is not static. It is constantly evolving and expanding. As it does, so must our definitions. The more people try to classify music or define music the more it becomes obvious that we should be going the other way. Our definition of music should not be getting more concise over time, but rather it should become broader so that we may allow for the further evolution of music and the ideas and emotions conveyed. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974/40 "2004-04-20T22:18:17Z")
I don’t have a problem with sampling as a form of creativity, but I am frequently disappointed by how incredibly lazy so many rap producers and/or electronica artists are. With the wealth of technology that is no doubt at their fingertips, the MOST they can think of doing is looping the hook of a popular song – or taking a popular song and doing nothing to it other than speeding it up to 120 bpm and attaching a loud bass drum to it. But I guess that’s Sturgeon’s Law for you. I wish I could illustrate my point with more concrete examples of artists that really explore the possibilities of sampling to the fullest – you know, artists who grab from a whole bunch of cool and different sources and throw it all into the pot to see what happens – but I honestly don’t listen to a lot of rap or electronica. Not a slam on the genres, it’s just how I am. Negativland is a good example of what I mean; there’s a band that knows how to mix and match! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rap-is-the-most-versatile-music/240974.md?page=3)