# Rape at Abu Ghraib **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953 "2009-05-28T18:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/1 "2009-05-28T18:47:52Z")
[http://thinkprogress.org/2009/05/28/abu-ghraib-rape/](http://thinkprogress.org/2009/05/28/abu-ghraib-rape/) (Standard lefty site warning would be offered but this exceeds the bounds of politics. Links to original sources are offered therein…) It appears, if this be true, that some of the photos that were withheld were withheld because they show American personnel committing rape. Given what we already have seen, it makes sense that this might be true, since it would take something really pretty awful to be worse. And this is it? Lord, I hope not, I hope that this is all a fabrication, a total propaganda lie cooked up by people who hate our freedoms. > [@](#): > > …Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President’s decision, adding: “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency. […] I Pit this because debate is impossible, only horror is possible. But if these pictures are not to be released, for plausible reasons, then we must demand, in no uncertain terms, that everyone who committed these acts, and every one who knew about them and did not intervene, be prosecuted fully and openly and publicly. I have no mouth, and I must scream. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/2 "2009-05-28T18:54:42Z")
Were there female prisoners there? If not, given the typical military culture, I doubt that there are pictures of male on male rape. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/3 "2009-05-28T19:00:08Z")
From the [Telegraph](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html)article: > [@](#): > > At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee. Whoa… just whoa. I’m crossing my fingers on this one that it’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/4 "2009-05-28T19:12:57Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Were there female prisoners there? If not, given the typical military culture, I doubt that there are pictures of male on male rape. Rape can involve inanimate objects (see, e.g., Abner Louima). ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/5 "2009-05-28T19:14:16Z")
But these were high-value terrorists, right? And they were only raped when all other methods of interrogation failed to produce intelligence, right? And they were terrorists, right? And there was probably a ticking time bomb, right? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/6 "2009-05-28T19:14:23Z")
All the namby-pampy talk about fear of terrorists escaping if moved onshore…I wonder if it’s the\* prisoners \*we need to be afraid of… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/7 "2009-05-28T19:23:39Z")
The pictures should be released because your imagination might envision something worse. The pictures are not the problem. It is the acts that were performed. To clean up the mess, you have to be open and honest. We should prosecute the perpetrators and the brass that allowed it. Then some of the world may be on our side. If we shovel it under the rug, we will be the hated torturers are rapers forever. America is a country that tortures. America is a country that covers up rape of prisoners. Is that who you want to be? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/8 "2009-05-28T19:40:46Z")
One of the problems is that the United States invasion of Iraq was supposed to be about bringing American-style freedom and democracy to the Middle East. Now we find that this American freedom and democracy includes “torture, abuse, rape and every indecency”. Is is surprising that many reject it? And President Obame can’t hide it, because the cats are out of the bag. It needs to be properly investigated, and those responsible need to be held accountable. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/9 "2009-05-28T19:45:25Z")
Although what we previously saw previously from Abu Ghraib involved a lot of sexual abuse, if these photos show outright rape, it will make Obama look awfully Clintonesque when he tries to explain how he wasn’t lying when he said these new photos were “not particularly sensational.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/10 "2009-05-28T19:53:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > if these photos show outright rape, it will make Obama look awfully Clintonesque… It’ll also make Bush, Cheney and friends awful sad when they start serving time for implementing a US war crimes program. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/11 "2009-05-28T19:55:52Z")
I remember reading years ago (I think it was from Sy Hersch) that soldeiers at Abu Ghraib had videotaped the rape of a teenaged boy. I believe the rapist in that story was an Iraqi guard, though. None of this surprises me. In the Stanford Experiment it took less than a week to turn normal college students into power drunk sadists. Add in the heightened emotions, anarchic conditions, a military culture which is, frankly, already prone to attract anti-social, violent and sociopathic personalities and basically give them tacit permission to do whatever they want to people they believe are “evil” (never mind that by the military’s own estimate, 70%-90% of the prsioners at AG were innocent civilians), and it would be a miracle if stuff like this did NOT happen. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/12 "2009-05-28T19:59:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Although what we previously saw previously from Abu Ghraib involved a lot of sexual abuse, if these photos show outright rape, it will make Obama look awfully Clintonesque when he tries to explain how he wasn’t lying when he said these new photos were “not particularly sensational.” In his defense, he can always say, with some validity, that he wanted to downplay his characterizations of the content so as not to enflame things any more in Iraq. It would be kind of defeating the purpose to say, “I don’t want to give fuel to the terrorists by realeasing these pictures, but holy FUCK are they bad.” ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/13 "2009-05-28T20:08:05Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But these were high-value terrorists, right? And they were only raped when all other methods of interrogation failed to produce intelligence, right? And they were terrorists, right? And there was probably a ticking time bomb, right? I’m sure each and every one of them was the #2 person in Al-Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/14 "2009-05-28T20:18:15Z")
This is horrifying, and makes me want to punch people who called Abu Graib “frat-boy pranks” even harder than I already wanted to punch them. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In the Stanford Experiment it took less than a week to turn normal college students into power drunk sadists. This is no defense of Abu Graib whatsoever, and in fact can be read as a further statement of its horrors - - there are reasons to believe now that the SPE was cooked, and it was undoubtedly unscientific and invalid as a study. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/15 "2009-05-28T20:21:30Z")
I very much doubt that friend **Doggy Knees** intended his comments to be taken as a defense. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/16 "2009-05-28T20:22:39Z")
I meant _I_ wasn’t defending it. Edit: I didn’t want “the SPE was invalid” to come off sounding like I was defending Abu Graib. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/17 "2009-05-28T20:30:20Z")
Even a cursory knowledge of your posting would render such a supposition absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/18 "2009-05-28T20:32:23Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > This is horrifying, and makes me want to punch people who called Abu Graib “frat-boy pranks” even harder than I already wanted to punch them. > This is no defense of Abu Graib whatsoever, and in fact can be read as a further statement of its horrors - - there are reasons to believe now that the SPE was cooked, and it was undoubtedly unscientific and invalid as a study. Do you have a cite for this? I have read that this experiment was repeated a number of times, but always had to be terminated early because the “guards” became too brutal with the “prisoners”. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/19 "2009-05-28T20:32:27Z")
I already assumed that rape occurred at Abu Ghraib. So this doesn’t shock me. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/20 "2009-05-28T20:32:53Z")
One does wonder why, if there is photographic evidence of soldiers raping prisoners, there have not been court martials, convictions, and serious punishments. It is worth noting that under the UCMJ, rape is a capital offense. Why are these charges not being laid? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953.md?page=2)