# Rape at Abu Ghraib **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953 "2009-05-28T18:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/81 "2009-05-31T12:28:37Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Oh, come now. French Algeria? Belgian Congo? The Mau Mau uprising? The European democracies ought to be the _last_ ones to be tut-tutting, unless their intention is to draw on the wealth of extensive experience to offer helpful hints or something. Need more whitewash for your sepulchre? Why don’t we keep it in this century. ETA, I’m an American, BTW, who has seen firsthand a lot of our contribution to the world over the past eight years or so. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/82 "2009-05-31T13:53:24Z")
Yes, I do believe Western Europeans are a bit better but not by much. While European countries and the EU have condemned Guantanamo and other US excesses, some _governments_ have also sucumbed to American pressure and have cooperated with secret prisons and rendition flights. There is plenty of blame to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/83 "2009-05-31T14:53:50Z")
(Really MPSIMS sort of material … We all thought that cameras all over the place would be used by the establishment to oppress the masses. It seems that there are lots of cases of these cameras being used to punish the establishment for its misbehavior. That is all. Carry on.) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/84 "2009-05-31T16:25:01Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Just a question, Argent, when did the soldiers stop wearing the BDU’s in thiose photos, and secondly, 2when were those photos allegedly taken? I’ve actually seen a segment of the movie this comes from, and it’s a low-grade porn. If they ever release any caps of these guys with their “weapons” you’ll see that their guns are paintball guns with the hoppers removed. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/85 "2009-05-31T16:33:21Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > What a crock of shit. > > I’m so weary of wanky hypocritical statements about American exceptionalism which by extension damn the rest of the world in the same breath as declaring America’s superiority. Your country’s brutal thugs were in Abu Graib freeing the shit of our Iraqis through rape and torture. You can’t just hand wave it away as “well that’s not a big deal, and if anything it shows how much Amurrika rocks cause the rest of the world would rape and torture and not complain”. Views like yours make me sick. Hey, you should be thankful, because here in America we invented this thing called free speech, and that’s why you’re allowed to say that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/86 "2009-05-31T16:51:59Z")
> [@Mojo\_Pin](#): > > here in America we invented this thing called free speech, and that’s why you’re allowed to say that. Apparently they have it where he lives, too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/87 "2009-05-31T17:53:45Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It obviously has a radical left wing agenda, and it is citing Aztlan as its source, which is, as someone else mentioned earlier, basically a Mexican version of the KKK. Except that I’ve never heard of Aztlan ever killing anyone. And it’s hardly left-wing. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/88 "2009-05-31T20:55:18Z")
[QUOTE=sailor] Yes, I do believe Western Europeans are a bit better but not by much. While European countries and the EU have condemned Guantanamo and other US excesses, some _governments_ have also sucumbed to American pressure and have cooperated with secret prisons and rendition flights. There is plenty of blame to go around. [/QUOTE] Ever heard of the infamous French prison system? And they do that stuff to their own people. Not saying we are good, but there is some serious need for some perspective on these things IMHO. -XT ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/89 "2009-06-01T00:14:20Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Ever heard of the infamous French prison system? No. Please enlighten me. > [@xtisme](#): > > And they do that stuff to their own people. This seems to show they believe in the same justice for all. Unlike Americans who believe American citizens should enjoy a more lenient system to which foreigners should not be entitled. If you ask me the French got it right if they apply the same justice to everyone. It shows they believe what they preach. Unlike Americans who preach against torture but only when it applies to other countries and it is OK if America does it. That is plain hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/90 "2009-06-01T01:59:44Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > No. Please enlighten me. There’s the story of a man named Valjean, terrible indictment of the French legal system. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/91 "2009-06-01T02:23:02Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > There’s the story of a man named Valjean, terrible indictment of the French legal system. Let us not forget [Alfred Dreyfus.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_affair) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/92 "2009-06-01T04:16:39Z")
I do not think the French legal system today compares badly with any other, old anecdotes notwithstanding. The American legal system is also historically plagued with all sorts of miscarriages of justice. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/93 "2009-06-01T04:57:53Z")
Good point. Alfred Dreyfus is about as relevant to 21st century French standards of justice as Sacco and Vanzetti are to 21st century American standards. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/94 "2009-06-01T07:38:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Apparently they have it where he lives, too. 🙂 Well _duhh_. That was part of America’s plan to liberate the shit out of his country. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953/95 "2009-06-01T12:51:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Apparently they have it where he lives, too. 🙂 Yeah, although not explicitly codified into our laws. Not that it matters really, it’s just a bit of paper. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-at-abu-ghraib/497953.md?page=4)