# "Rape culture" and "date rape" debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203 "2015-08-28T19:13:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/321 "2015-09-21T22:10:23Z")
An example I just ran into today of how POV is, or can be everything when it comes to gender politics. In a video talking about the alleged “empathy gap” between men and women, the presenter offered the fact that when human beings are hurt by violence, the media treats the sexes differently: when it’s all male, they use the term “people”, but when the people are female that fact is headlined. As I have always viewed it, that disses women, because it equates “people” with males, reinforcing the idea tha men are the norm, but females are different, “other” - males represent normalcy, humanity itself, (I refuse to refer to humanity as “man”- and anyone who thinks things like that don’t have an effect, you are completely wrong.) women are weirdos ( I hope you get my drift here, don’t dissect my language) This would be just another example of how English establishes male as the norm. An actor is “one who acts” but an actress is “a female one who acts” Okay… But the presenter (an English professor, a woman) had the reverse view: her perception was that by calling men “people” but specifying females, it was dismissive and unconcerned with the males, her point being that females get special protection and care in our society and nobody give a damn about men. Now, her fundamental thesis, that women are given special treatment and protection while men are expected to just deal, is valid and certainly something to discuss, but I am specifically concerned with her example as I have just described because it was fascinating to me how the same set of facts produces completely opposite reactions. Which is true? Could both be? Becquse of course we are not a hive mind, whatever we are doing and saying, there is no central bunch of men or women plotting, we are all just absorbing what we live with and then filtering it through our experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/322 "2015-09-21T22:53:31Z")
Good points **Stoid**. That is a rational and reasonable response to a complex subject. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/323 "2015-09-21T23:51:54Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > An example I just ran into today of how POV is, or can be everything when it comes to gender politics. In a video talking about the alleged “empathy gap” between men and women, the presenter offered the fact that when human beings are hurt by violence, the media treats the sexes differently: when it’s all male, they use the term “people”, but when the people are female that fact is headlined. > > As I have always viewed it, that disses women, because it equates “people” with males, reinforcing the idea tha men are the norm, but females are different, “other” - males represent normalcy, humanity itself, (I refuse to refer to humanity as “man”- and anyone who thinks things like that don’t have an effect, you are completely wrong.) women are weirdos ( I hope you get my drift here, don’t dissect my language) This would be just another example of how English establishes male as the norm. An actor is “one who acts” but an actress is “a female one who acts” > > Okay… But the presenter (an English professor, a woman) had the reverse view: her perception was that by calling men “people” but specifying females, it was dismissive and unconcerned with the males, her point being that females get special protection and care in our society and nobody give a damn about men. > > Now, her fundamental thesis, that women are given special treatment and protection while men are expected to just deal, is valid and certainly something to discuss, but I am specifically concerned with her example as I have just described because it was fascinating to me how the same set of facts produces completely opposite reactions. Which is true? Could both be? > > Becquse of course we are not a hive mind, whatever we are doing and saying, there is no central bunch of men or women plotting, we are all just absorbing what we live with and then filtering it through our experiences. The English teacher’s hypothesis is outrageous given that women die at the hands of their domestic male spouse at an alarming rate [Don't Believe In The War On Women? Would A Body Count Change Your Mind? - Upworthy](http://www.upworthy.com/dont-believe-in-the-war-on-women-would-a-body-count-change-your-mind) So who’s really looking after women? Please. Dead women don’t get any treatment at all, never mind “special” ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/324 "2015-09-22T00:07:44Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > My comment wasn’t confined to the issue of rape, first of all-this thread happened to catch me when I had been spending time listening to (rational) anti-feminists and (reasonable) mens rights activists, who were expressing many things I had been thinking for a long time, as well as things I had never even considered. > > I was excited, until I realized how much bickering and snide mockery and dismissiveness so many voices on both sides were engaged in, then I just got bummed. > > But as far as this specific area? One example: women DO lie about sexual assault. > Another? Sometimes no DOES mean yes. > > And this simplebut really very important truth: sex is a particularly messy, confusing, profound, complicated, intense, emotional and vulnerable area of life. I think its safe to say that it takes up the top five spots all by itself. So it is foolhardy to imagine that we can ever come up with a nice, tidy way of dealing with the issue of sexual assault. It’s impossible, because sex, and sexual assault or not nice and tidy, anythiing but. > > Which means, to my mind, that instead of weighting everything for or against one or the other, hopelessly striving for simplicity, strive for workable ways to do our best (and our best will still be imperfect, for the reasons just stated) to be respectful of both parties, without sacrificng reason or the search for truth. Don’t throw him on the fire on her say so, and don’t dismiss her as a hysteric. But on the other hand, don’t coddle her like a child and don’t give him a wink and a nudge. > > I read a very good essay today onthe subject that could almost have been written by me, insofar as the content goes. And interestingly it was written 20 years ago, which I find amazing. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/13/magazine/date-rape-s-other-victim.html?pagewanted=5&pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/13/magazine/date-rape-s-other-victim.html?pagewanted=5&pagewanted=all) > > Check it out. Women MAY lie about sexual assault, and often it’s to protect their sleezball husband or intimate partner. Look, for the tiny amount of times that “lying” actually occurs, it fucking pales in comparison to women who are abused and dead by the hand of the person who was supposedly the love of their life. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, between 1998 and 2002: ``` Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses. 84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female. Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers 50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse. ``` ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/325 "2015-09-22T01:47:22Z")
**iiandyiiii** : > [@](#): > > This can be avoided when people absolutely refuse to have sex unless they are 100% sure the other party has definitely and clearly consented. That shouldn’t be hard – don’t do it unless you’re absolutely positive the other person is consenting to it. > [@](#): > > I think we can continue to improve such that more and more people think about consent and agree that it is wrong to have sex with someone unless they clearly consent. > > And I don’t think this has any contradiction with healthy and pleasurable adult behavior, except perhaps for those who specifically desire partners who do not consent. > [@](#): > > So in terms of how consent is used now – that everyone has an absolute right to choose when and where and with who to engage in intimate activities with (or not), and consent cannot be assumed and it must be clear – I think a lot of progress has been made. > [@](#): > > This is all fine, but I think one of those “basic truths” that must be acknowledged is that it is absolutely wrong, always, to do anything sexual to or with someone who has not consented, and that it is the responsibility of anyone who wants to do anything sexual to ensure that their partner has consented. > > It’s really not hard to do this, and it’s hard for me to understand why this idea encounters resistance. You have a very clear position. So clear, in fact, you don’t understand how anyone could think differently. But earlier in this thread - in response to you, in fact - someone posted this: > [@](#): > > This isn’t how people have sex. The vast, vast majority of sex acts and sexual encounters are not prefaced with explicit consent gathering, relying instead on the continued participation of the other partner as sufficient demonstration, and quite a lot of people lead with an act such as touching or kissing when they feel that they have consent, and in the vast majority of cases, they are correct and the act is consented to, and desired. > > Hell, let me bring up one story from my past. My significant other does costume design work, and works odd hours to meet deadlines. Every work has its own unique technical challenges, and identifying and creating a unique solution to a novel problem is quite a rush, especially when sleep-deprived. The result of this is my partner is quite likely to be a bit het up and eager to celebrate in the early hours of the morning. On one particular occasion, I woke up into a sex act. > > My partner had not received specific instruction as to how I consented to sonmabulistic sex in general nor that particular act in specific. On the other hand, she’d lived with me for well over a decade and knew very well what I was and wasn’t cool with, even if it hadn’t been enumerated. > > The short version is that consent, being a human thing reliant on human interaction and human judgement, is complicated, and you can’t sum it up in soundbytes very effectively. The post got no responses, as far as I can tell: from you or anyone else. The person who posted it was asleep, and therefore unable to give consent. The person who initiated the sex act did not obtain consent. As I understand it, according to your position, this was a clear-cut case of rape. Is that in fact your position? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/326 "2015-09-22T02:12:27Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Wom en MAY lie about sexual assault, and often it’s to protect their sleezball husband or intimate partner. Look, for the tiny amount of times that “lying” actually occurs, it fucking pales in comparison to women who are abused and dead by the hand of the person who was supposedly the love of their life. > > According to the U.S. Department of Justice, between 1998 and 2002: > > ``` > Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses. > 84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female. > Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers > 50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse. > > ``` Which means what, in your estimation? How should these statistics guide our actions? If you feel, as many do, that accusations of sexual assault should be held apart from the rest of our criminal justice system and be treated as (accused perpetrator) is guilty unless and until proven innocent, I strongly disagree. But I don’t know, that’s why I am asking. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/327 "2015-09-22T02:14:03Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Good points **Stoid**. That is a rational and reasonable response to a complex subject. I appreciate your taking the time to say so.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/328 "2015-09-22T02:16:41Z")
By the way, somewhere up thread, I don’t remember Who said it right off hand, but somebody suggested essentially letting the accuser come up with the punishment or something like that, to which I reply: no. That’s really not how it works and that’s not a good way for it to work. Victims of any crime are not the right people to look to for justice. We need Impartial parties, not passionately invested parties. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/329 "2015-09-23T01:50:22Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Stoid View Post > > Here’s an extreme scenario I’d be curious to get people’s opinions on. And while it is extreme, it isn’t made-up, it happened to one of my closest friends. > > > > Man and woman are into each other, heading down the road to sex. Both passionately kissing, touching, stripping, just sailing happily to intercourse, no hesitation. Both parties are sexually active and experienced adults. > > > > Both parties have gotten completely naked, very willingly. He’s between her legs, his diamond cutter penis an inch from her vagina. She suddenly decides no, she doesn’t want to fuck. She doesn’t want to do any of it anymore, starting with the no fucking. She looks him in the eye and says: “I changed my mind. I want to stop now. I’m done.” This is the first sign of any kind she has given that she’s not on board with it. He says something dismissive, in a nice, sexy way, something like, “you tease!” and plunges into her vagina and strokes once or twice, and because he’s wildly turned on and also is a premature ejaculator, boom, has an orgasm. All in the space of seconds. > > > > Now by law, he raped her. No question. She said no, he went ahead. it was two seconds, two strokes, and he (understandably, in my opinion) didn’t think she was serious. But by law, it was rape. > > > > She decides to take him to court over it. > > > > Do you believe it would be just to convict him of sexual assault? Not would it be technically correct, but would it be just? > > Yep, definitely, if it happens just as you posted it. Very just. That doesn’t mean life imprisonment would be just – a judge should take into account the circumstances, timing, etc., when handing down a sentence. > > But yep – that’s definitely rape, in both a legal and moral sense, from my understanding, and it would absolutely be just to convict him. \ Of course, laws vary from state to state, but in my state [the statute reads](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.22.htm): > [@](#): > > Sec. 22.011. SEXUAL ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person: > (1) intentionally or knowingly: > (A) causes the penetration of the anus or sexual organ of another person by any means, without that person’s consent; > > … > > (b) A sexual assault under Subsection (a)(1) is without the consent of the other person if: > (1) the actor compels the other person to submit or participate by the use of physical force or violence; > (2) the actor compels the other person to submit or participate by threatening to use force or violence against the other person, and the other person believes that the actor has the present ability to execute the threat; > (3) the other person has not consented and the actor knows the other person is unconscious or physically unable to resist; > (4) the actor knows that as a result of mental disease or defect the other person is at the time of the sexual assault incapable either of appraising the nature of the act or of resisting it; > (5) the other person has not consented and the actor knows the other person is unaware that the sexual assault is occurring; > (6) the actor has intentionally impaired the other person’s power to appraise or control the other person’s conduct by administering any substance without the other person’s knowledge; > (7) the actor compels the other person to submit or participate by threatening to use force or violence against any person, and the other person believes that the actor has the ability to execute the threat; > (8) the actor is a public servant who coerces the other person to submit or participate; > (9) the actor is a mental health services provider or a health care services provider who causes the other person, who is a patient or former patient of the actor, to submit or participate by exploiting the other person’s emotional dependency on the actor; > (10) the actor is a clergyman who causes the other person to submit or participate by exploiting the other person’s emotional dependency on the clergyman in the clergyman’s professional character as spiritual adviser; or > (11) the actor is an employee of a facility where the other person is a resident, unless the employee and resident are formally or informally married to each other under Chapter 2, Family Code. (3) through (11) don’t seem to apply, since the alleged victim was conscious, wasn’t suffering from a mental disease or defect and so far as I know there were no public servants, mental health providers or clergymen involved. That leaves (1) and (2). But since there’s no mention of “physical force or violence” or of threatening to use force or violence, it falls outside the legal definition. In other words, it’s not sexual assault, according to the statute. **Stoid** , I liked your NYT article. > [@](#): > > They are talking about what they define as a “rape culture.” Rape is a natural trump card for feminism. Arguments about rape can be used to sequester feminism in the teary province of trauma and crisis. By blocking analysis with its claims to unique pandemic suffering, the rape crisis becomes a powerful source of authority. > > Dead serious, eyes wide with concern, a college senior tells me that she believes one in four is too conservative an estimate. This is not the first time I’ve heard this. She tells me the right statistic is closer to one in two. That means one in two women are raped. It’s amazing, she says, amazing that so many of us are sexually assaulted every day. > > What is amazing is that this student actually believes that 50 percent of women are raped. This is the true crisis. Some substantial number of young women are walking around with this alarming belief: a hyperbole containing within it a state of perpetual fear. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/330 "2015-09-23T02:51:52Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Indeed, rape is rape regardless of the throws of passion or not. If consent is withdrawn so should the act withdraw. \ I agree. Rape is rape regardless of the throws of passion or not. Once I was with a woman in the cowgirl position. Just as she was about to orgasm, I looked her right in the eye and says “stop.” She didn’t stop. Now she’s in prison, and will have to register as a sex offender for the rest of her life. Rape is rape, regardless of the throws of passion. If consent is withdrawn so should the act withdraw. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/331 "2015-09-23T03:35:23Z")
\throes. The throws of passion typically, or traditionally, entail broken crockery. \ ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/332 "2015-09-23T05:10:42Z")
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, let me try to outline how I view my own sexual consent. When I was in my late 20s and had never been kissed, let alone laid, and was going rather out of my mind with sexual frustration, I started to realize that if I continued to wait until I was perfectly sure of what I wanted, I would die a virgin. I don’t have the sort of mind that can be perfectly sure of anything. In any situation, including sexual ones, I experience countervailing impulses of desire and aversion, and must choose which to follow and which to ignore. In other words, even when I choose to do something, there is a part of me that doesn’t want to. If I were fully open about these feelings in sexual situations, only a rapist would enjoy having sex with me. To have healthy sex with a decent person, I must conceal my aversion and communicate only my desire. Therefore, it would be ridiculous for me to expect my partner to genuinely “make sure” that I am consenting. It’s hard enough for me to make up my own mind; the last thing I want is her second-guessing me out of some misguided scruple. The responsibility must fall on me. This is all OK because I am a man. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/333 "2015-09-23T06:04:03Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Just to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, let me try to outline how I view my own sexual consent. > > When I was in my late 20s and had never been kissed, let alone laid, and was going rather out of my mind with sexual frustration, I started to realize that if I continued to wait until I was perfectly sure of what I wanted, I would die a virgin. I don’t have the sort of mind that can be perfectly sure of anything. > > In any situation, including sexual ones, I experience countervailing impulses of desire and aversion, and must choose which to follow and which to ignore. In other words, even when I choose to do something, there is a part of me that doesn’t want to. > > If I were fully open about these feelings in sexual situations, only a rapist would enjoy having sex with me. To have healthy sex with a decent person, I must conceal my aversion and communicate only my desire. > > Therefore, it would be ridiculous for me to expect my partner to genuinely “make sure” that I am consenting. It’s hard enough for me to make up my own mind; the last thing I want is her second-guessing me out of some misguided scruple. The responsibility must fall on me. > > This is all OK because I am a man. But you perfectly describe what many people, including many women, feel all the time. So this fantasy of establishing a firm, unequivocal yes is just that. Sex is complicated! ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/334 "2015-09-23T10:02:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > But you perfectly describe what many people, including many women, feel all the time. So this fantasy of establishing a firm, unequivocal yes is just that. > > Sex is complicated! I think about a third of the time it starts with her asking like “You up for something?” and I’m like “Mweh, not really”. “And what of I do _this_ and theen _this_?” and sex ensues. Often a little pushing is just fine. But it is a difficult line and I, from my side, like to be careful. Too careful and timid sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/335 "2015-09-23T11:10:29Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I think about a third of the time it starts with her asking like “You up for something?” and I’m like “Mweh, not really”. > “And what of I do _this_ and theen _this_?” and sex ensues. > Often a little pushing is just fine. > But it is a difficult line and I, from my side, like to be careful. Too careful and timid sometimes. That kind of dynamic seems common in heterosexual relationships, and I think it’s usually quite healthy. The man is cautious because he knows he can hurt the woman if he’s not careful; the woman feels more free to push boundaries because she knows it would be very difficult to hurt him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/336 "2015-09-23T11:35:48Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Of course, laws vary from state to state, but in my state [the statute reads](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.22.htm): > > (3) through (11) don’t seem to apply, since the alleged victim was conscious, wasn’t suffering from a mental disease or defect and so far as I know there were no public servants, mental health providers or clergymen involved. > > That leaves (1) and (2). But since there’s no mention of “physical force or violence” or of threatening to use force or violence, it falls outside the legal definition. If you’re doing something physically to a person, and they tell you to stop, and you keep doing it, then you are using physical force. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/337 "2015-09-23T11:37:08Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I agree. Rape is rape regardless of the throws of passion or not. Once I was with a woman in the cowgirl position. Just as she was about to orgasm, I looked her right in the eye and says “stop.” She didn’t stop. Now she’s in prison, and will have to register as a sex offender for the rest of her life. > > Rape is rape, regardless of the throws of passion. If consent is withdrawn so should the act withdraw. Okay, so this is a sarcastic post. But is your last line about consent being withdrawn sarcastic or not? Should someone stop doing the act if consent is revoked, or not? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/338 "2015-09-23T11:53:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, so this is a sarcastic post. But is your last line about consent being withdrawn sarcastic or not? Should someone stop doing the act if consent is revoked, or not? Depends entirely on “revoking” looks/sounds like. Look, sex is, for all intents and purposes, adult playtime. We do, say, act ways that we never would in other circumstances. The best you can do is learn to read your partner. And if you are with someone for the first time or simply early on, then be clearer in your communication as part of your process of learning to read someone, and if there’s any question, default to the less radical of options available. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/339 "2015-09-23T11:57:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Depends entirely on “revoking” looks/sounds like. > > Look, sex is, for all intents and purposes, adult playtime. We do, say, act ways that we never would in other circumstances. The best you can do is learn to read your partner. And if you are with someone for the first time or simply early on, then be clearer in your communication as part of your process of learning to read someone, and if there’s any question, default to the less radical of options available. Right, and this is all fine – if someone’s reaction to the hypothetical is to be slightly annoyed and explain to their partner what they’d prefer them to do next time, then that’s fine. And if someone’s reaction to the hypothetical is to feel traumatized and report it to the police, that reaction is fine as well. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/340 "2015-09-23T12:17:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right, and this is all fine – if someone’s reaction to the hypothetical is to be slightly annoyed and explain to their partner what they’d prefer them to do next time, then that’s fine. And if someone’s reaction to the hypothetical is to feel traumatized and report it to the police, that reaction is fine as well. Well, yeah, they can report whatever they like… key question is whether it is or should be actionable by them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203.md?page=18)