# "Rape culture" and "date rape" debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203 "2015-08-28T19:13:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/381 "2015-09-25T15:31:44Z")
It’s a straightforward consequence of male privilege. Belonging to the more powerful gender gives you a psychological boost that protects you from trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/382 "2015-09-25T15:43:42Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I think that’s an extraordinarily sexist assumption, and equally dangerous for men and women. On this I have to disagree with you I think–while it would be wrong to assume no man can be raped by any woman (and extraordinarily sexist to assume so), **WF Tomba** is only talking about what is most likely, and on that, she’s surely right. Granted in the great majority of contexts, to talk in this way about what is likely is a derailing tactic designed to get the conversation away from important and difficult facts like “men can be raped,” in this particular case **WF Tomba** doesn’t seem to be doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/383 "2015-09-25T15:45:18Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I take it you don’t subscribe to the belief that it is an inherent injustice for any technically criminal act to escape prosecution. > > I have been inclined toward that viewpoint myself, but this discussion has led me to reconsider it. Crafting a criminal code so perfect that it could be applied to every human action, without causing either over-incarceration or impunity, may be impossible. > > Another point: I think it’s much more likely that an assault of the kind you described will fail to do serious harm when the aggressor is a woman and the victim a man, than for any other gender combination. Men are more likely to have the ego strength and self-esteem needed to brush off such an experience. So the fact that men virtually never report sexual assaults by women to the authorities is not necessarily a social problem that needs to be corrected. Pretty much all the things you said I agree with, except slightly at the very end–I think your conclusion is too strong. It can still be a social problem that needs to be corrected, even if it is rare, and even if its effects are swamped by other social problems that act more severely on other groups. Toxic attitudes about masculinity are a social problem, and they can be part of what leads to under-reporting of rape among males. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/384 "2015-09-25T16:28:46Z")
Note that I specifically referred to the low rate of reporting of _female-on-male_ sexual assault, not the low rate of reporting by male sexual assault victims in general. I am guessing that in most cases where a man is assaulted, the aggressor is also a man. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/385 "2015-09-25T16:59:30Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > On this I have to disagree with you I think–while it would be wrong to assume no man can be raped by any woman (and extraordinarily sexist to assume so), **WF Tomba** is only talking about what is most likely, and on that, she’s surely right. Granted in the great majority of contexts, to talk in this way about what is likely is a derailing tactic designed to get the conversation away from important and difficult facts like “men can be raped,” in this particular case **WF Tomba** doesn’t seem to be doing that. My problem is with these two statements: > [@](#): > > Men are more likely to have the ego strength and self-esteem needed to brush off such an experience. > [@](#): > > So the fact that men virtually never report sexual assaults by women to the authorities is not necessarily a social problem that needs to be corrected. As to the first, trauma reactions aren’t dictated by anything I would call “ego strength,” and feeling violated and wanting to report to the police for redress after being assaulted is certainly not something I would associate with “ego weakness.” That statement is saying, in so many words, that brushing off a sexual assault is the stronger position, and further that men are better able to take that position. That is basically exactly the philosophy that causes so many fucked up conversations about sexual assault and gender. It’s a straight line from that premise to there being something inherently wrong with victims of sexual assaults. My problem with the second follows pretty directly from my problem with the first. Unless sexual assaults are good, the fact that **WF Tomba** is assuming – that they happen and nothing is done about them because of societal conditioning – is bad. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/386 "2015-09-25T17:27:25Z")
[QUOTE=Jimmy Chitwood] That statement is saying, in so many words, that brushing off a sexual assault is the stronger position, and further that men are better able to take that position. That is basically exactly the philosophy that causes so many fucked up conversations about sexual assault and gender. [/QUOTE] Conversations about sexual assault and gender are fucked up because the reality of the situation is fucked up. You don’t think that the ability to be unbothered by something that would deeply disturb someone else is a form of strength? You don’t think that being a member of a socially disadvantaged group tends to make one more psychologically vulnerable? Gender inequality would not be inequality at all if it hurt men and women equally. It hurts women more. Everything tends to hurt women more; that’s why inequality matters, and why sexual assault is a feminist issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/387 "2015-09-25T17:59:06Z")
No, I don’t think the ability to be unbothered by sexual assault is a form of strength, unless strength is being used amorally. I think it’s just as likely to be a disordered reaction as an especially healthy one. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/388 "2015-09-25T18:02:44Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > I am a little amused and a lot resigned that my partner has been classified as a 3 A.M. boyfriend and that it’s my job as a responsible woman to steer clear of such things. > > Calling a lot of the sex people have consentually rape is bullshit. Legally enshrining that sex to be rape is bullshit. And holding to that standard in some cases while counting on prosecutorial discretion to only happen in the cases of real assault is the bullshittiest bullshit that took a shit. > > Do you think otherwise? Was I raped? What should happen if I chose to go to law enforcement? I like this post so I’m quoting it for being awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/389 "2015-09-25T18:05:02Z")
Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/390 "2015-09-25T18:07:42Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You’re trying to think of ways an asshole could try to game the system. > > What proposal is on the table which prevents assholes from trying to game the system? The law in my state does a pretty good job. Andy misinterpreted it but otherwise – absent the misinterpretation – it does a pretty good job. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/391 "2015-09-25T18:21:03Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > The law in my state does a pretty good job. Andy misinterpreted it but otherwise – absent the misinterpretation – it does a pretty good job. …and it says?.. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/392 "2015-09-25T20:52:49Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > No, I don’t think the ability to be unbothered by sexual assault is a form of strength, unless strength is being used amorally. I think it’s just as likely to be a disordered reaction as an especially healthy one. I did mean “strength” in an amoral sense. I see psychological strength as a morally neutral quality — or perhaps even a slightly morally negative quality, since people tend to use their strength to overpower others. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/393 "2015-09-27T02:23:57Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > The law in my state does a pretty good job. Andy misinterpreted it but otherwise – absent the misinterpretation – it does a pretty good job. Assuming your talking about me, what did I misinterpret? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203.md?page=19)