# "Rape culture" and "date rape" debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203 "2015-08-28T19:13:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/101 "2015-08-30T21:53:43Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Sulkowicz was a date-rape case. She dating him at the time she claimed the rape occurred. Although it’s true she was no longer dating him months later when she made the accusation - he’d told her “let’s just be friends”. > > Mangum was a prostitute. > > “Jackie” alleged the assault happened at a fraternity party, after midnight. The original story is gone. But if she was at a fraternity party after midnight… chances are she’d been drinking. > > So at least two of them, and possible three, fit into the categories you say people are OK with: date rape, prostitute rape, and (possibly) drunk rape. > > I agree many people are fine with prison rape. > > But otherwise, if the victim is a woman, people are not OK with rape, period. Prostitutes, male or female, do not deserve to be raped, and I personally loathe prison rape too, even if the “victim” committed a sex crime him- or herself. When I was a teenager, I had a female classmate who bullied me to the point where she said she wanted her brothers to gang-rape me and get me pregnant so I would have to leave school. :mad: :eek: For a number of reasons I won’t go into here, she never got into any kind of trouble for any of this, and probably wouldn’t have gotten into trouble had she succeeded with this (she repeatedly told me, “We can’t get in trouble because we’re juveniles”) , and years later, I told a therapist, “I hope she gets raped at some time in her life, and the rapist gets her pregnant.” I then quickly added, “No, not really. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody, and even if I did, the baby would be completely innocent.” I found out recently that this woman is divorced with 2 grown children. Hmmmmmmm. :dubious: She also works (or did at the time) in the claims denial department of a health insurance company. Now, I can understand why such a department exists (fraud, people trying to file claims for things they know aren’t covered, etc.) but that she would have a job like that really didn’t surprise me either. Even though she and her siblings were all highly intelligent, musically talented honor students, she was a bad kid from a bad family. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/102 "2015-08-30T23:02:34Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > If you’re having this much trouble with the words that make up the definition, I don’t think you’re in a position to have an opinion about its usefulness. Seems I’m not alone. Maybe you just understand “words” better than the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/103 "2015-08-30T23:33:41Z")
Still looking having trouble with a definition for “Rape Culture?” How about a culture where[a game called “Tournament of Rapists” is not considered totally inappropriate](http://jessicalprice.tumblr.com/post/127951942358/games-sure-are-classy)? ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/104 "2015-08-30T23:38:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whether or not you found examples in which these sorts of rape were prosecuted, there are still people who are okay with it. Not everyone everywhere, but some people in some places, and enough such that many people are afraid to report their rapes, and many reported rapes are ignored. Is that the standard for N culture? Really? Some people are OK with it, such that some people are afraid to report something and the crime is sometimes ignored? Hey, everyone, according to **iiandyiiii** , America is a false-rape-report culture! Look, you wanna come up with an actual standard for declaring a culture to be a N culture, based on an actual look at that culture’s attitudes towards N compared to both other topics and other cultures, that would be great. You wanna keep doing this weaksauce denial of specificity? Well, if you don’t ground your arguments in reality, they will work against you as well as for you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/105 "2015-08-30T23:39:27Z")
[Here’s](https://www.yahoo.com/music/chrissie-hynde-under-fire-suggesting-women-dress-provocatively-174756699.html) a great example of rape culture from a female rock star of whom I’m a big fan: > [@Chrissie Hynde](#): > > “If you don’t want to entice a rapist, don’t wear high heels so you can’t run from him,” \ As she recalled being sexually assaulted at age 21 by a motorcycle gang in Ohio while high on drugs, Hynde said it was “all her doing.” “If you play with fire you get burnt. It’s not any secret, is it?” she said when asked if the gang took advantage of her. \ “If I’m walking around and I’m very modestly dressed and I’m keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I’d say that’s his fault,” she explained. > > “If you’re wearing something that says ‘Come and fu\*k me,’ you’d better be good on your feet… I don’t think I’m saying anything controversial am I?” For one thing, this implies that rape can’t be helped – that some men are just inclined to rape, and there’s nothing that can be done about this except to not wear provocative clothes (as if clothing had anything to do with rape in any case) and be able to run fast when necessary. For another, a victims group rep in the link put it best: > [@](#): > > “Victims of sexual violence should never feel or be made to feel that they were responsible for the appalling crime they suffered — regardless of circumstances or factors which may have made them particularly vulnerable,” Hastings said in a statement to The Guardian. > > “They should not blame themselves or be blamed for failing to prevent an attack — often they will have been targeted by predatory offenders who are responsible for their actions,” Hasting continued. “It is critical that nothing deters victims of sexual violence from coming forward to the police or to independent organizations so they can get the help and support they need.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/106 "2015-08-30T23:44:06Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > Is that the standard for N culture? Really? Some people are OK with it, such that some people are afraid to report something and the crime is sometimes ignored? We’re just talking about rape culture – and this is just a small part of what makes up rape culture. There are tons of other things that make up what is called rape culture. Rape culture doesn’t imply that every aspect of American culture are “pro-rape” – rather (among other things) that there are enough things in our culture that are either tolerant of rape or dismissive of rape accusations that there is a systemic, long-term problem that greatly increases the risk that some people will be raped. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/107 "2015-08-30T23:56:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’re just talking about rape culture – and this is just a small part of what makes up rape culture. There are tons of other things that make up what is called rape culture. > > Rape culture doesn’t imply that every aspect of American culture are “pro-rape” – rather (among other things) that there are enough things in our culture that are either tolerant of rape or dismissive of rape accusations that there is a systemic, long-term problem that greatly increases the risk that some people will be raped. So that’s a “Yes, with great gusto!” to “America is a false-rape-accusation culture.” then. You’re talking rape culture. I’m pointing out that the subject is apparently incoherent. Greatly increases compared to what? Determined how? And why rape and not false-rape-accusation? I bet I can find a lot of people really quickly saying that false rape accusations aren’t a problem that we need to worry about, and I know I can find a lot of people saying that if you’re concerned about being falsely accused rape you’re a bad person and taking important worry-attention away from the important, deserving people. If that’s the standard for N culture, then N culture is meaningless, and choosing one set of N over another is just a matter of social signaling and wanting to emphasize a problem without apparently having the statistical stones to back it up. You want to make Rape Culture as a phrase mean something? Give it metrics. Give us comparisons, to other crimes and other cultures, and show us how the word gets used, and how often, e.g., people choose to say things like “Islam promotes rape culture.” Hell, once we get metrics, we can compare-and-contrast exactly how rapey Islam’s collective culture is compared to America’s collective culture! It’l be great! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/108 "2015-08-31T00:03:40Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > So that’s a “Yes, with great gusto!” to “America is a false-rape-accusation culture.” then. If you want, sure. I heartily endorse efforts to oppose false accusations, assuming they don’t dissuade real accusations. > [@](#): > > You’re talking rape culture. I’m pointing out that the subject is apparently incoherent. Greatly increases compared to what? Determined how? And why rape and not false-rape-accusation? It’s not incoherent to me. For your questions: Greatly increased compared to what it should be (which is much closer to zero), determined by looking at the statistics and history and applying human common sense and intuition. And rape is the obvious and tautological focus of anti-rape efforts (of which identification of aspects of rape culture is a part) – just as false accusations would be the focus of anti-false-accusations efforts. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/109 "2015-08-31T00:15:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I heartily endorse efforts to oppose false accusations, assuming they don’t dissuade real accusations. Suppose somebody lies about getting raped, gets caught, and gets prosecuted for it. does that discourage real accusations? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/110 "2015-08-31T00:47:11Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Still looking having trouble with a definition for “Rape Culture?” How about a culture where[a game called “Tournament of Rapists” is not considered totally inappropriate](http://jessicalprice.tumblr.com/post/127951942358/games-sure-are-classy)? Well, I was specifically referring to **Jimmy Chitwood** ’s useless and vague definition, but that link is about a video game and not an actual societal practice. If that game is reflective of a rape culture, what about novels and other art mediums that describe scene of rape? Is _Game of Thrones_ illustrative of rape culture? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/111 "2015-08-31T01:13:45Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Well, I was specifically referring to **Jimmy Chitwood** ’s useless and vague definition, but that link is about a video game and not an actual societal practice. > > If that game is reflective of a rape culture, what about novels and other art mediums that describe scene of rape? Is _Game of Thrones_ illustrative of rape culture? If you’d actually read the link, you might have noted that she explicitly mentioned Game Of Thrones as something that has rape in it, but isn’t a part of rape culture. Then again, if you’d read it, you might also have picked up on the fact that they’re not talking about a video game. The idea that games aren’t a social practice is also something you’re wrong about, but that one at least can’t be blamed on not reading the link before you commented on it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/112 "2015-08-31T01:21:16Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > But if the existence of rape jokes is enough to establish the existence of rape culture, then by extension we also live in a murder culture, a cancer culture, a pedophilia culture, a holocaust culture, and a necrophilia culture as well. > > As for the signs, all they prove is that those specific young men are assholes, and your article states that those assholes were immediately suspended. If we actually lived in a rape culture, surely no-one would care. Besides, you can find assholes holding nasty signs about anything. Are articles like [this](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2323883/Johnny-Milanos-chilling-photos-American-Nazis-annual-National-Socialist-Movement-convention-Atlanta.html) (NSFW) evidence that the U.S. is a “Nazi culture”? Or are there merely evidence that some Nazi assholes live in the U.S.? Saying “there is Nazi culture in the US” is very different from saying that “the US is a Nazi culture.” Many different kinds of cultures are found in the US. Identifying it as a culture is a way to talk about how behaviors can be contagious. Nobody suddenly becomes a Nazi out of the blue… people can be born with a hateful nature, but these ideas solidify from the things they read and the people they keep company with. Likewise, someone may be born with tendencies toward cruelty or indifference toward others, but attitudes of amusement or indifference toward rape is something you learn from others. That’s rape culture. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/113 "2015-08-31T02:53:12Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > There is no “rape culture” in the US. If there was a rape culture, that would mean - at minimum - that people were OK with rape. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Rape is one of the worst crimes, both in terms of legal punishment and social consequences, that a person can commit. Even being accused of rape can ruin a person’s life. What we have is closer to rape hysteria than rape culture: > > **Mattress Girl** : Emma Sulkowicz accused Paul Nungesser of raping her at Columbia University. Columbia cleared Paul - using their very low standards, and while preventing him from presenting exculpatory evidence. But it didn’t matter. Emma went on to complete her Senior thesis by carrying a mattress around, and became a minor national celebrity. Paul was ostracized and became the subject of death threats. You can read [this story](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/03/columbia-student-i-didn-t-rape-her.html) to see why Emma’s allegation was plainly false. Emma herself declined to talk to the police, because it would be too much of a burden. > > **Duke LaCrosse Team** : Crystal Gail Mangum alleged she’d been raped by some number of men at a party at Duke. ([Her initial statement ranged from 2 to 20](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/06/the_duke_lacrosse_rape_scandal_the_definitive_account/)). Three men were indicted, based on [“tainted”](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/06/the_duke_lacrosse_rape_scandal_the_definitive_account/) lineups. Eventually the men were declared “innocent” in an [extraordinary statement](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/06/the_duke_lacrosse_rape_scandal_the_definitive_account/) made by North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper, but not before being arrested, indicted, and nationally shamed. The Lacrosse team itself was punished, and their coach was forced to resign. No charges were brought against Mangum. > > **UVA rape story** : In the November, 2014 issue of Rolling Stone, the magazine printed a story about a woman named “Jackie” who was raped (she said) by 7 men at a fraternity house at the University of Virginia. UVA responded by suspending all fraternities on campus. Colin Downes, in an article published by Slate, argued that police should treat fraternities like the one at UVA as “[criminal street gangs under state law and seize their assets](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/12/fraternity_sexual_assault_and_criminal_activities_states_should_use_gang.html).” The [“Phi Kappa Psi house was vandalized as several people hurled bottles and cinder blocks through most of the first-floor windows and spray-painted insulting messages on the building. As a result of the attacks, as well as death threats made against members, residents of the fraternity abandoned their house.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus) > > Eventually, the story was debunked. Rolling Stone retracted the story, and issued [multiple apologies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus). The Columbia Journalism Review gave it the honor of being [“The Worst Journalism of 2014”,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus) and said it won [“this year’s media-fail sweepstakes”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus). > > **Mark Weiner** : In a less famous story, Mark Weiner was convicted, and spent two and a half years in prison, before he was finally vindicated. From [Slate](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/07/mark_weiner_conviction_vacated_chelsea_steiniger_text_case_finally_overturned.html): > > The case started when 20-year-old Chelsea Steiniger was walking home after an argument with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend then received the following string of texts: > > Despite a mountain of evidence contradicting her story (much of which never made it into court), the jury believed her, and he was convicted. After two and a half years: [Read the full story here](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/07/mark_weiner_conviction_vacated_chelsea_steiniger_text_case_finally_overturned.html). > > Mark Weiner was eventually released because amount of evidence that he was innocent became so overwhelming that (eventually) even the prosecutor couldn’t believe Steiniger anymore. > > **The Innocence Project** : According to the Innocence Project, they people they’ve helped, [served an average of 14 years in prison](http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/exonerating-the-innocent), before exoneration and release. According to their website, their work is proof that wrongful convictions are not “isolated or rare events but instead arise from systemic defects.” > > The innocence project does not break down exoneration by type of conviction. However, [if you look at the first page](http://www.innocenceproject.org/cases-false-imprisonment/front-page#c10=published&b_start=0&c4=Exonerated+by+DNA) (people exonerated by DNA evidence), every one of them was convicted of rape or sexual assault. The Wiener story is shocking but not surprising. We appear to be living now in a false rape accusation culture. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/114 "2015-08-31T03:01:08Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > The Wiener story is shocking but not surprising. > > We appear to be living now in a false rape accusation culture. The Wiener story is not unique. Like I said, the Innocence Project doesn’t break down cases by type of conviction, but of the convictions on the first page, all were for sexual assault. The average amount of time spent in prison by people eventually exonerated by the Innocence Project is 14 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/115 "2015-08-31T03:26:16Z")
Afghanistan has a rape culture. In the west, none at all. [Real feminist(McElroy) vs 3rd wave wingnut feminist(Valenti)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdlVcjYYCbs&feature=youtu.be) ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/116 "2015-08-31T03:34:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If you’d actually read the link, you might have noted that she explicitly mentioned Game Of Thrones as something that has rape in it, but isn’t a part of rape culture. Then again, if you’d read it, you might also have picked up on the fact that they’re not talking about a video game. The idea that games aren’t a social practice is also something you’re wrong about, but that one at least can’t be blamed on not reading the link before you commented on it. All I gathered from that dogshit excuse for an article (which is nothing more than a bunch of tweets and inane commentary) is that the game is “D&D” style and not an actual “hey let’s rape a bunch of women” exercise being practiced in real life. It’s fantasy. Like Game of Thrones. Neither is indicative of a culture that condones rape. Last I checked, rape is illegal and everyone knows it. **Jimmy Chitwood** ’s definiton was vague and useless. Saying “rapes would exist less frequently without rape culture” as a _proof_ that rape culture exists is not meaningful in any way. It’s vague and useless. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/117 "2015-08-31T03:53:39Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > All I gathered from that dogshit excuse for an article (which is nothing more than a bunch of tweets and inane commentary) is that the game is “D&D” style and not an actual “hey let’s rape a bunch of women” exercise being practiced in real life. In other words, you entirely missed the point of the discussion (to say nothing of the actual article), at literally every single conceivable level. Which comes as a great shock, I am sure, to precisely no one. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/118 "2015-08-31T03:55:39Z")
When reading stories like the one in Rolling Stones, or that hoax from Columbia U, or the Lacrosse case, or the “Hands up, don’t shoot” hoax, or the “he could’ve been my son” idiocy, or Tawana Brawley fraud, you always have to assume that’s it’s all lies. Every word of it. That’s not to say such cases cannot occur (after all, theoretically, anything is possible), but the initial assumption should always be that’s it all lies. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/119 "2015-08-31T04:00:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In other words, you entirely missed the point of the discussion (to say nothing of the actual article), at literally every single conceivable level. Which comes as a great shock, I am sure, to precisely no one. Please see this series of self-aggrandizing tweets and inequitable commentary as my attempt to foster genuine discussion. Not as if I an ideologue with an agenda to pass, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203/120 "2015-08-31T04:14:28Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I’ve already defined it, so I’m not sure what you’re looking for from me. > > What I’m saying is not just that most rapes are not prosecuted successfully. It’s the nature of the beast. Many such prosecutions are ‘he said, she said’ and because of this it’s almost certain that some rapes will fall through the net. The only way to prevent this would be to always believe the alleged victim. That would certainly convict all the rapists but equally certainly condemn some innocent men to prison. I’m sure you wouldn’t advocate this. What we’re left with is what we’ve got, weighing each case on its merits. Oh, and as someone said above, if you want to see what a genuine rape culture looks like just check out the areas controlled by ISIS. The US doesn’t even come close to justifying such a tag. Just the opposite, in fact, with the inexorable movement over my lifetime to treat rape in all areas as the serious and grievous crime that it is, the acknowledgement of marital rape being one notable example. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-culture-and-date-rape-debate/729203.md?page=7)