# Rape isn't just a women's issue, and women commit rape too **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649 "2012-12-20T18:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/21 "2012-12-21T06:11:24Z")
in the 1990’s I went to get my hair done…the recently separated lady who cut my hair was also the owner of the salon. I noticed she seem to go overboard shampooing my hair every time I went to her. She later **asked me** out…went to dinner and an expensive place, very quiet, upscale people…she made clear she was a devout Christian, who went out of her way to see some of the big name televangelists & gospel singers…right in the middle of this meal, she starts talking XXX stuff, using fowl language in a normal tone of voice…it made me cringe (agnostic BTW). So after two dates, I stopped seeing her and got my hair done elsewhere…I lived in a 3 story condo, that over looked the guest parking area…I have a knack for recognizing car make & model from a distance, and I recognized her unique white Buick Riviera late evenings with her sitting in it in my parking lot, stalking me, with her dome light on. Went on for several weeks, then she gave up. I used to dim my lights in the condo, and zoom in on her with my Bushnell telescope. The pervert in me (and most likely most males) fantasied about her raping me…I read that X% of woman also have a similar fantasy. I even left my door unlocked and the light on…no luck…but yet I had no desire to ever date her again, as women who use XXX rated language in upscale quiet places turn me off. I know you Dopers are thinking, wow, that must have beem one f\*\*\*\*d up cougar…you’d be right PS she. too. was F\*\*\*\*\* up as well. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/22 "2012-12-21T06:14:52Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > The pervert in me (and most likely most males) fantasied about her raping me…I read that X% of woman also have a similar fantasy. I even left my door unlocked and the light on…no luck…but yet I had no desire to ever date her again, as women who use XXX rated language in upscale quiet places turn me off. You can’t rape someone who wants to be raped, thats just sex.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SantaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@SantaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SantaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/23 "2012-12-21T06:34:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Rape is seen as a women’s issue because women had to fight to get society to take the issue seriously: for a long time rape victims were stigmatized and told it was their own fault they had been raped. That attitude still exists, although I am sure it’s much less prevalent than it was years ago. > > I’m not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that men get blamed when they are raped, or that men do the blaming, therefore it’s a men’s issue that women don’t need to get involved in? What it reminds me of is how if as man and woman get drunk and have sex, I understand that it is always considered the man taking advantage of the woman. Or when a female teacher seduces an underage male, reactions even from this board included something to the effect of “Lucky boy” or “What’s the problem?” while if the genders were reversed, well… And I would guess that the ridicule heaped on a male charging rape by a female is still worse than it was for females in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/24 "2012-12-21T06:51:31Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Does the OP have a cite for his claim that prison rape is mostly perpetrated by guards rather than by other prisoners? He’s absolutely correct… …when it comes to women prisoners. The rape of women prisoners in pretty much all non-European countries (and even quite a few of them) is massively documented and disgusting. To claim most male prison rape is by the guards… meh, I could see that most forced sodomizing and sexual humilation is done by the guards. I don’t know if that counts as rape or not, it would be just as bad for the victim (probably worse given it’s coming from guards). “Classic” prison rape is more rare than you think (but still depressingly common) outside of Africa and the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/25 "2012-12-21T07:33:05Z")
Not sure if the OP could have picked a touchier subject, but yeah men can be raped. laws can be different in different countries and what is defined as “rape” can be different subtly, but a key thing is that it is non-consensual but doesn’t have to be traditional intercourse. Forcing someone to perform oral sex can constitute rape. Sodomising someone without consent is rape. There’s been a lot of media in Australia recently about the treatment of young boys in christian boarding schools, orphanages, boys homes etc from the 50’s through the early 80’s. Paedophile Priests using young boys as their private harem leading to suicides and serious therapy. Regarding school kids, a number of years ago my neighbours son got in a relationship with his high school teacher. He was 15, she was late 30’s, same age as his mum, married with 2 kids. Mum found out about it, reported it to the cops, she ended up in jail, the kid hasn’t spoken to his mum since. Was all over the media here at the time, he was convinced he was the instigator and she was blameless. The mum had a lot of conversations with the investigating detectives. There was (as always) lots of stuff they suspected but couldn’t prove. Such as a few other boys of similar age in the previous few years at the school suddenly going off the rails shortly after turning 16. One jumped off a bridge onto train tracks as the train was coming. Suspicion was, she was a predator who used them and dumped them but nothing could be proved. When we hear the word “Rape” most people automatically go to the same stereotype, the violent bloke raping the innocent chick and those absolutely happen but in fact would be the minority. Sexual assault by family/friends or date rape/rape in the context of a relationship would be far in the majority. And Adult women are the victims comparatively far more often than adult men. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/26 "2012-12-21T11:37:50Z")
I remember back in college reading something about how the number of men who make it through childhood without being raped, and who also never go to prison, but who end up getting raped later in life (by either a man or a woman) was “insignificant.” I found the use of that word highly insensitive and argued that any number of men being raped is not insignificant. My feminist collegiate friends laughed and me and kind of looked down on me saying, “well of course as a man you’re going to feel that way. But way more women than men get raped…” Anyhow, I see rape as an issue important to both genders, and while I readily admit it’s a much bigger deal for women than it is for men, it’s not a women’s issue overall. Both women and men can be raped, and often are, although the circumstances are usually different. Women can commit rape and anyone who claims that a man can never have non-consensual sex is a sexist buffoon who deserves the harshest derision. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/27 "2012-12-21T13:08:46Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > This first statistic is reasonable, but I thorougly horked my coffee at the latter. Violent crimes and sexual crimes are \*overwhelmingly \*perpetrated by men. Yeah, because men commit crimes against strangers. Child abuse, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly committed by women. The violent crimes men commit are mostly against adult men. Women commit about half of intimate partner violence and a majority of elder abuse and child abuse. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/28 "2012-12-21T13:12:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hey, I’m just happy to see that it’s finally rape week again so we can move on from gun control week. 😃 > > As for the OP, yeah we get it. Men can be raped, too. One thing men can’t get, though, is pregnant. Another thing men can’t get is abortions. So, if rape does result in pregnancy a woman who’s pregnant had the opportunity to have an abortion. If the rapist gets pregnant, that’s a different matter. There are occasional stories in the news about female rapists receiving child support from their victims. Imagine for a minute a woman who gets raped into pregnancy and is then forced to bear the child, hand it to her rapist and pay him for its upkeep until it’s an adult, and see how outraged you’d be by that. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/29 "2012-12-21T13:15:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I’m having trouble uh visualizing is probably the wrong word but aside from statutory female on male rape(underage male) what exactly are the circumstances of most of these cases? Even in popular fiction a device is usually used such as a drugged man etc. > > Please don’t take this as a minimization of female on male rape which it isn’t. There’s the normal way, just having sex and refusing to stop just because there isn’t consent, there’s using threats of force, threats with weapons, taking advantage of the unconscious, the underage, and so on. All the same ways men do it. Erections can be induced by physical stimulation in even terrified, pained or unconscious subjects. I once read about a case where a woman put an elastic band around a man’s penis to induce an erection. > [@colander](#): > > It’s true, anyone can rape anyone else. Women can rape men, astronauts can rape dogs, it’s a real mess out there. > > Now that we’re agreed, any chance you have any ideas on what to do about it? None whatsoever, no. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Does the OP have a cite for his claim that prison rape is mostly perpetrated by guards rather than by other prisoners? The report of the National Prison Rape Elimination Commission. About 60% according to [Prisonlegalnews.org](http://www.prisonlegalnews.org/%28X%281%29S%282zxaecuuhwoxlqusyrgljwah%29%29/21225_displayArticle.aspx). > [@grude](#): > > You can’t rape someone who wants to be raped, thats just sex.🙂 Which doesn’t mean it’s okay to rape someone just because they’ve had a rape fantasy, or just because they had an orgasm while being raped. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/30 "2012-12-21T13:42:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Rape is seen as a women’s issue because women had to fight to get society to take the issue seriously: for a long time rape victims were stigmatized and told it was their own fault they had been raped. That attitude still exists, although I am sure it’s much less prevalent than it was years ago. > > I’m not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that men get blamed when they are raped, or that men do the blaming, therefore it’s a men’s issue that women don’t need to get involved in? I’m saying men are blamed when they get raped. Blamed isn’t always the right word, when a man is raped by the woman he might get a response like “was she hot?”, which isn’t exactly blame. There seems to be a general disbelief that it’s possible for a man to be raped, at least by a woman. Prison rape, there seems to be implicit blame. It’s fine to laugh at their being raped, because they’re criminals. Apart from that though the assumption seems to be that a man can’t not consent to sex, and that at the very least an erection is proof of consent. That he “must have wanted it really”. It’s good that woman don’t face that attitude any more, but men have barely even progressed to that stage and are still a long way from being regarded as legitimate victims when violently sexually victimised. Issues long ago remedied for women, like no rape charge being possible between a married couple, are still a long way off being corrected for men, as in the many jurisdictions where men being raped by women is a legal impossibility. Women’s groups have long since moved onto things like date rape, arguing that rape can result from mental impairment and so on, men are still struggling with being recognised as rape victims when being held at knife point or violently forced to have sex. Even in this thread, there had been a great reluctance to accept the possibility of females committing sexual violence. Even against children, where women have long been responsible for most violence. Even the little thing about most prison rape being by guards, which I thought about not including as not strictly relevant, was interpreted as obviously being because of male guards raping female inmates, as if that would outdo the rape of the male prison population which is at least ten times the size. It was also pointed out that most of those guards are male, which is true (although there was a story from America a few months ago about a prison banning its inmates from masturbating in front of female staff, so they’re far from unheard of in male prisons), but that hardly makes the rape victims any less raped. No-one’s even addressed the issue of female use of sexual coercion and force in heterosexual western relationships, or in combat rape in the Congo. And I’m sure that if you put all the rapes together the largest number will be male on male, as with all other violent crimes, with male on female being a bit more common than female on male. And that’s what the figures seem to show. But people don’t want to acknowledge that. People want rape to be men against women, and don’t want to have to have sympathy for male victims, and really don’t want to look at women as perpetrators. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/31 "2012-12-21T13:46:53Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Yeah, because men commit crimes against strangers. Child abuse, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly committed by women. The violent crimes men commit are mostly against adult men. Women commit about half of intimate partner violence and a majority of elder abuse and child abuse. You’re conflating abuse and sexual abuse. Most child _sexual_ abuse is perpetrated by men. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/32 "2012-12-21T13:55:26Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Which doesn’t mean it’s okay to rape someone just because they’ve had a rape fantasy, or just because they had an orgasm while being raped. Again if he was eagerly anticipating sex with someone they couldn’t very well rape him could they? That whole consent thing. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/33 "2012-12-21T14:08:00Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > No-one’s even addressed the issue of female use of sexual coercion and force in heterosexual western relationships, or in combat rape in the Congo. And I’m sure that if you put all the rapes together the largest number will be male on male, as with all other violent crimes, with male on female being a bit more common than female on male. And that’s what the figures seem to show. But people don’t want to acknowledge that. People want rape to be men against women, and don’t want to have to have sympathy for male victims, and really don’t want to look at women as perpetrators. First of all no one has claimed female on male rape is impossible, but the claim it is a bit less common as male on female has no basis in reality. Show even one cite for that claim. What is sexual coercion and force in hetero western relationships? Funny thing is there is a link in the thread of an attempted female rapist, with the further complicating factor all parties were intoxicated and she was married to one man and the cops and courts took it seriously. Again can you prove this is a major unaddressed problem? ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/34 "2012-12-21T15:52:04Z")
> [@grude](#): > > First of all no one has claimed female on male rape is impossible, but the claim it is a bit less common as male on female has no basis in reality. Show even one cite for that claim. I showed two in the OP. [http://psych-server.psych.uni-potsdam.de/social/projects/files/womens-sex-aggression.pdf](http://psych-server.psych.uni-potsdam.de/social/projects/files/womens-sex-aggression.pdf) [http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID45-PR45.pdf](http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID45-PR45.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/35 "2012-12-21T16:17:46Z")
Perhaps you could quote specific passages, rather than just expecting everyone to read 60 pages of research to make your case. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/36 "2012-12-21T16:34:45Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Perhaps you could quote specific passages, rather than just expecting everyone to read 60 pages of research to make your case. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/37 "2012-12-21T17:19:43Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Perhaps you could quote specific passages, rather than just expecting everyone to read 60 pages of research to make your case. After a cursory look at the two referenced articles, I see that they don’t address the incidence of female-initiated sexual coercion per se, but rather the determinants thereof. Eh. The first (Hines 2007) involved an international survey of college students. In the sample she uses 2.8% of men reported having coerced sex physically, 22% verbally; the corresponding figures for women were 2.3% and 24.5%. But she also states: > [@](#): > > when forced touching of sexual parts was included as part of the definition [of sexual coercion], approximately 25–33% of college women reported experiencing such behaviors (e.g., Fiebert & Osburn, 2001), but when forced oral, anal, and/or vaginal intercourse was the criterion for behaviors that are coerced, less than 10% of college women reported experiencing such coercion […] > > Specifically, by both men’s and women’s reports, the rates of verbal sexual coercion against men by women are consistently estimated to be between 10 and 20% […] whereas physically forced sexual intercourse by women against men is estimated to be between 1 and 3% So we seem to be comparing 10% to 1-3%, which feels like a fairly large delta. The second article cited (Krahé et al) seems to have nothing new to say about the _incidence_ of rape; but they cite pretty much the same literature as Hines. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/38 "2012-12-21T17:52:00Z")
Don’t fantasy threads like this belong in MPSIMS? ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/39 "2012-12-21T20:46:10Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Who does then? I mention this because what I have read suggests that IF there is a need for a cavity search in a jail or prison a warrant is obtained and a medical professional will perform it. Not that it is routine but if there is reason to suspect a inmate has concealed contraband. Hell, I’ve done it. And I was a lowly contractor. Once your ass is in custody, if your ass might be carrying something, your ass is fair game (for search, that is). It’s a spread-n-search, not a medical procedure. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649/40 "2012-12-21T21:01:49Z")
> [@SantaMan](#): > > …Or when a female teacher seduces an underage male, reactions even from this board included something to the effect of “Lucky boy” or “What’s the problem?” while if the genders were reversed, well… Or if both the student & teacher are male. For some reason that seems to cause even more outrage that a male teacher seducing a female. > [@blindboyard](#): > > … Imagine for a minute a woman who gets raped into pregnancy and is then forced to bear the child, hand it to her rapist and pay him for its upkeep until it’s an adult, and see how outraged you’d be by that. This has actually happened with male statutory rape victims. We’ve had threads about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-isnt-just-a-womens-issue-and-women-commit-rape-too/644649.md?page=3)