# Rape! It's not just for breakfast anymore.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 22, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379 "2002-10-22T14:26:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/41 "2002-10-23T06:11:31Z")
Put me on the side of “Not really caring one way or the other”.
If John Doe rapes a child, goes to prison, and is then raped…So?
Hopefully the guys that did it would be sent to the hole or whatever, but if they aren’t…So?
I will not be losing any sleep over it.
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### Author:  [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/42 "2002-10-23T06:39:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \*
> I’ve been raped. . .
Owww, that’s horrible.
::gives jarbaby a big hug::
I hope they have caught the bastard and sentenced him to tree planting in the Sahara.
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### Author:  [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/43 "2002-10-23T07:30:25Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I hope they have caught the bastard and sentenced him to tree planting in the Sahara.
Aren’t you being a bit harsh?
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### Author:  [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/44 "2002-10-23T09:37:15Z")
((jarbaby))
((catsix))
why do i open these threads? i know i’ll only get upset.
jar, as ever you’re right.
we gotta come through these things as bigger and better people, or we can’t come through them at all.
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### Author:  [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/45 "2002-10-23T13:01:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Spit \*
> \*\*
>
> Aren’t you being a bit harsh? \*\*
Yeah, but see, that’s the point. It won’t happen. Desert-tree planting, flaying, being burned alive, and other forms of creative execution and/or torture that pop up in conversations about being outraged by some brutal crime are different than talk about rape. Why?
Because they won’t happen. Prison rape does. If people were routinely exiled to the Sahara, it might be inappropriate. If it happened beyond the control of the Justice System, and was dished out on a whim regardless of the victim’s own crimes, then it’s downright despicable.
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### Author:  [@Devorzhum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devorzhum)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/46 "2002-10-23T13:15:41Z")
I just want to say a few things here about the dangers and pitfalls that open up when we, as people, dehumanize the plights of others, whoever they may be. The holocaust (or any other publicly supported genocide / democide) becomes possible when a populace begins a slow and gradual moral decline, wherein it becomes justifiable to dehumanize others.
When you say: “Well this person committed such and such an act, so this form of inhuman “justice” is applicable,” you are in fact, endangering a part of yourself. When you say , “I hope that sonofabitch gets rape-tortured in jail, because he killed a baby,” you are unwittingly lowering yourself down one rung of a moral and ethical ladder.
A bit further down that ladder (and not as far down as you might think) is the attitude that allows for the alienation of another whole ethnicity, culture, or race. For example, a popular attitude for everyday citizens of early Nazi Germany was something like, “Why are those damned Jews allowed to have stores and become prosperous. . . I wish somebody would humble them.” And history shows to what horrific level the Jews were “humbled.”
I plead with those that have stated a tolerance for the barbaric handling of another human being to re-think their stance and re-evaluate what it is to be a better kind of human than one driven by mob-rule, panic, fear, or a need for “eye for an eye vengance.”
I am an athiest, but can respect some tenets of the Western faiths. I think the best of these ideas is that is acceptable to abhor the actions of a person, but that does mean that it is allowable to hate the person.
When you allow hate into your belief system, you have shut the door on kindness, and more than that, you have slammed the door on a superior modality of being that when lost can lead to far greater consequences than the cruelty inflicted on just any one individual.
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### Author:  [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/47 "2002-10-23T13:24:39Z")
Devorzhum, very well-put. Systematic dehumanization hurts the society as well as the criminals.
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### Author:  [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/48 "2002-10-23T13:41:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The point is, do you really accept prison rape as acceptable (thus, your opinions affect more than just how you feel, but your actual position)? Even worse, do you actually wish for it to happen?
Fluid, if you read my posts you will see I have already answered your questions.
I wrote:
> [@](#):
>
> Not sure who you are addressing, but I would not wish rape on anyone nor do I think it will teach them a lesson or make them better people.
> [@](#):
>
> Should I be proud of feeling this way? Probably not, but this is how I feel. It’s comparable to the execution of Ted Bundy. I didn’t celebrate, but I sure as hell didn’t shed a tear either. Some people don’t deserve my compassion or pity.
> [@](#):
>
> I’m not wishing rape on anyone, but I have absolutely no compassion for them if they are left humiliated and heartbroken from a prison rape.
> [@](#):
>
> I do feel that prisoners should be protected and I do understand that in most cases it is the timid and weak who are victims. But as I said earlier, the vengeful bitch inside of me feels no compassion for the abusers who are abused.
My agreement to this comment when I said “exactly”:
> [@](#):
>
> It’s not that I actually think rape should be their punishment, because I don’t.
In case I still haven’t made myself clear -
1. NO, I do not feel prison rape is an acceptable form of punishment.
2. YES, I do feel that all prisoners should be protected.
3. NO, it does not make me feel warm and fuzzy when I hear about a a prison rape.
4. I have ZERO compassion for the rapists and abusers who have the misfortune of being raped in prison. None. My dark and evil self :rolleyes: feels a small sense of vengeance that they experience the same fear and pain they subjected on their victims. It ain’t pretty, but that’s how I feel.
It’s the same feeling I got when Dahmer was killed in prison. I didn’t jump up and down and tip a can of beer, but I did say to myself “good riddance, asshole”.
> [@](#):
>
> When you allow hate into your belief system, you have shut the door on kindness, and more than that, you have slammed the door on a superior modality of being that when lost can lead to far greater consequences than the cruelty inflicted on just any one individual.
Now we’re just getting into the ridiculous zen drama bullshit.
I can assure you that my indifference and lack of compassion for child rapists and killers has absolutely no affect whatsoever on my kindness towards others. None.
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### Author:  [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/49 "2002-10-23T14:13:28Z")
But you’re not alone in your lack of compassion or indifference. Collectively, it is a dangerous place for a society to be.
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### Author:  [@Devorzhum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devorzhum)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/50 "2002-10-23T14:15:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> My dark and evil self :rolleyes: feels a small sense of vengeance that they experience the same fear and pain they subjected on their victims. It ain’t pretty, but that’s how I feel.
**Diane,** Is that zen drama bullshit, or exactly the attitude to which I was referring?
Think on it, please.
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### Author:  [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/51 "2002-10-23T14:21:41Z")
I think that’s the whole point of my OP, and we’re getting away from it and into semantics. I understand COMPLETELY that you don’t feel a ton of compassion or pity for a criminal who suffers at the hand of crime, probably seeing it as some sick karma or fate or shit coming back to bite them.
The problem _I_ have is that I’ve seen a lot of posters casually throwing out “oh man is his ass going to be sore in prison” or “guys like that are going to be very popular in prison, if you know what I mean” and everyone just sort of chuckles at how funny it would be to see someone beaten and raped.
Baby, I’ve been there. It ain’t funny at all. That was my point.
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### Author:  [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/52 "2002-10-23T14:26:12Z")
Well, the thing is, if someone commits a certain crime (molestation & child rape for instance) they WILL be very popular in prison.
Sucks for them, and it is something they should have thought about before they committed the crime.
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### Author:  [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/53 "2002-10-23T14:29:49Z")
It should be enough that they are IN PRISON and off the streets, they should not have to suffer cruel and unusual punishment while in prison, nor should we find great satisfaction in cruelty to others. IMHO.
J
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### Author:  [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/54 "2002-10-23T14:45:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But you’re not alone in your lack of compassion or indifference. Collectively, it is a dangerous place for a society to be.
I have news for you. My lack of compassion and indifference for the scum who rape and kill our children is not something new in our society, it’s been around forever. You’re also right in that I am not alone in my feelings.
I sincerely doubt that civilization will crumble if each and every man, woman, and child doesn’t shed a tear every time a John Wayne Gacy or a Jeffrey Dahmer gets a visit from Bubba.
Unless you can show some specific dangers that are happening in our society because of a lack of compassion for these wastes of human flesh, I will assume nothing more than melodramatics.
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### Author:  [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/55 "2002-10-23T14:52:38Z")
Yes, it IS enough that they are in prison.
However, being in prison means having to deal with other inmates, who may very well think of you as ‘fresh meat’. The staff can’t watch every prisoner 24/7, so rape is the end result.
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### Author:  [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/56 "2002-10-23T15:00:02Z")
Spit, are you totally missing the point? I KNOW THAT IT HAPPENS…my problem is when people take great satisfaction in it happening…as if that serves their sense of justice.
J
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/57 "2002-10-23T15:00:48Z")
> [@](#):
>
> They might not be innocent of other crimes, but they’re still not guilty of something for which our legal code provides torture as the penalty.
**Monty** Plllllease! Of all posters, I’d expect more in the way of accuracy from you.
> [@](#):
>
> To all those that think of prison rape as justice:
> I just want to say a few things here about the dangers and pitfalls that open up when we, as people, dehumanize the plights of others, whoever they may be. The holocaust (or any other publicly supported genocide / democide) becomes possible when a populace begins a slow and gradual moral decline, wherein it becomes justifiable to dehumanize others.
Oh good grief **Devorzhum** , your moral outrage has completely lost it’s focus. People sickened by rapists and pedophiles to the point of not giving a rodent’s buttock if said molesters should themselves experience some of the same fear they’ve propogated are now going to run out and start killing Jews?
AAAAArrrrgggghhhhh! The OP is about whether a chuckle is appropriate, not to see how high we can climb on the ladder of moral indignation and launch paint.
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### Author:  [@Devorzhum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devorzhum)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/58 "2002-10-23T15:18:27Z")
**Diane,**
I think I can address each of your thoughts in turn:
> [@](#):
>
> I have news for you. My lack of compassion and indifference for the scum who rape and kill our children is not something new in our society, it’s been around forever. You’re also right in that I am not alone in my feelings.
I agree with you that the standards and attitudes of Americans have been on the decline for a long time. A widespread lowered ethical standard however, is evidence of a culture on the decline. It is exaclty what **EchoKitty** referred to as **systematic dehumanization** and it starts with an outrage (such as the attitudes of a citizenry towards its criminals) that gets spotlighted in the media and becomes the accepted attitude of the majority. This mass lynchmob mentality is deadly.
> [@](#):
>
> I sincerely doubt that civilization will crumble if each and every man, woman, and child doesn’t shed a tear every time a John Wayne Gacy or a Jeffrey Dahmer gets a visit from Bubba.
The societal danger doesn’t come from “shedding a tear” for the cruelty inflicted back upon the cruel. The danger is that it becomes a crack in the ethical fabric of society as a whole. This is why our constitution strenuously outlays in law that no punishment shall be “cruel or unusual.” This is to curtail vigilantism and “backroom justice.” We have to conduct ourselves better than those we consider “degenerate, evil criminals” if society is going to continue to flourish.
> [@](#):
>
> Unless you can show some specific dangers that are happening in our society because of a lack of compassion for these wastes of human flesh, I will assume nothing more than melodramatics.
I would suggest that every aspect of foreign policy currently being adopted by the Bush administration illustrates the dangerous attitudes that develop when you combat an act of cruelty with ruthless vengeance. . . But that strays too far from the point and is best left for another forum.
---
### Author:  [@Devorzhum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devorzhum)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/59 "2002-10-23T15:25:36Z")
**Diane,**
I think I can address each of your thoughts in turn:
> [@](#):
>
> I have news for you. My lack of compassion and indifference for the scum who rape and kill our children is not something new in our society, it’s been around forever. You’re also right in that I am not alone in my feelings.
I agree with you that the standards and attitudes of Americans have been on the decline for a long time. A widespread lowered ethical standard however, is evidence of a culture on the decline. It is exaclty what **EchoKitty** referred to as **systematic dehumanization** and it starts with an outrage (such as the attitudes of a citizenry towards its criminals) that gets spotlighted in the media and becomes the accepted attitude of the majority. This mass lynchmob mentality is deadly.
> [@](#):
>
> I sincerely doubt that civilization will crumble if each and every man, woman, and child doesn’t shed a tear every time a John Wayne Gacy or a Jeffrey Dahmer gets a visit from Bubba.
The societal danger doesn’t come from “shedding a tear” for the cruelty inflicted back upon the cruel. The danger is that it becomes a crack in the ethical fabric of society as a whole. This is why our constitution strenuously outlays in law that no punishment shall be “cruel or unusual.” This is to curtail vigilantism and “backroom justice.” We have to conduct ourselves better than those we consider “degenerate, evil criminals” if society is going to continue to flourish.
> [@](#):
>
> Unless you can show some specific dangers that are happening in our society because of a lack of compassion for these wastes of human flesh, I will assume nothing more than melodramatics.
I would suggest that every aspect of foreign policy currently being adopted by the Bush administration illustrates the dangerous attitudes that develop when you combat an act of cruelty with ruthless vengeance. . . But that strays too far from the point and is best left for another forum.
---
### Author:  [@Devorzhum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devorzhum)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2002, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-its-not-just-for-breakfast-anymore/133379/60 "2002-10-23T15:34:31Z")
**Diane,**
I think I can address each of your thoughts in turn:
> [@](#):
>
> I have news for you. My lack of compassion and indifference for the scum who rape and kill our children is not something new in our society, it’s been around forever. You’re also right in that I am not alone in my feelings.
I agree with you that the standards and attitudes of Americans have been on the decline for a long time. A widespread lowered ethical standard however, is evidence of a **an entire culture** on the decline. It is exaclty what **EchoKitty** referred to as **systematic dehumanization** and it starts with an outrage (such as the attitudes of a citizenry towards its criminals) that gets spotlighted in the media and becomes the accepted attitude of the majority. This mass lynchmob mentality is deadly.
> [@](#):
>
> I sincerely doubt that civilization will crumble if each and every man, woman, and child doesn’t shed a tear every time a John Wayne Gacy or a Jeffrey Dahmer gets a visit from Bubba.
The societal danger doesn’t come from “shedding a tear” for the cruelty inflicted back upon the cruel. The danger is that it becomes a crack in the ethical fabric of society as a whole. This is why our constitution strenuously outlays in law that no punishment shall be “cruel or unusual.” This is to curtail vigilantism and “backroom justice.” We have to conduct ourselves better than those we consider “degenerate, evil criminals” if society is going to continue to flourish.
> [@](#):
>
> Unless you can show some specific dangers that are happening in our society because of a lack of compassion for these wastes of human flesh, I will assume nothing more than melodramatics.
I would suggest that every aspect of foreign policy currently being adopted by the Bush administration illustrates the dangerous attitudes that develop when you combat an act of cruelty with ruthless vengeance. . . But that strays too far from the point and is best left for another forum.
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