# Rape on US colleges vs. World War II mass rapes **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737 "2016-04-20T16:45:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/1 "2016-04-20T16:45:17Z")
It is claimed that a very high percentage of women on U.S. college campuses will be raped during their time in college. It is also a fact that when the Soviet army captured Nazi Germany in World War II, there was an extremely high number of instances of rape, and also that the Japanese raped many Chinese women during the capture of Nanjing in 1937-1938. Now, the difference, of course, is that the Soviet capture of Nazi Germany and Japanese capture of Nanjing took place in a short time, whereas a college education takes several years. But, \*statistically and mathematically \*- since this is General Questions - does a woman who goes to college in the United States for 4 years undergo a lesser, equal, or greater risk of being raped than a German woman in Germany during the Soviet conquest, or a Chinese woman in Nanjing during the Japanese conquest? Anybody know the figures for Germany and US college campuses and able to do a mathematical analysis? With regards to China, IIRC, the population of Nanjing was over half a million at the time the Japanese seized the city. [“Approximately 20,000 cases of rape occurred within the city during the first month of the occupation”](http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/IMTFE-8.html). Mathematically, doesn’t that mean a Chinese woman in Nanjing stood a \*lower \*chance of being raped by a Japanese soldier in that month than a woman who goes to college in the United States for 4 years? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/2 "2016-04-20T17:04:55Z")
These are garbage accusations. Here is a U.S. Department of Justice report: > **[Home](https://bjs.ojp.gov)** > > The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) is the United States' primary source for criminal justice statistics that cover a wide range of topics. Note: > [@](#): > > For the period 1995–2013— > The rate of rape and sexual assault was 1.2 times higher > for nonstudents (7.6 per 1,000) than for students (6.1 per > 1,000). 6.1 per 1,000 is less than 1%. That is in no way “very high”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/3 "2016-04-20T17:07:58Z")
I am not certain it is fair to compare rapes on college campuses with rapes during war. Rapes on college campuses are going to be more along the lines of date-rape while in war the rapes are more along the lines having a gun to your head kind of rape. This is a distinction often made in law (1st, 2nd and 3rd degree rape). So, a woman going to college for four years probably has a low chance of being forcibly raped by someone threatening her life compared to a woman in these war zones. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/4 "2016-04-20T18:05:12Z")
Of course, during the breakdown of authority in a war zone, anything can happen. It does not have to be foreign soldiers. I remember reading a report about rapes in Yugoslavia as it fell apart. Semi-organized militia gangs and disorganized groups of thugs with guns could do almost anything they liked; one girl reported the group of men who assaulted her were people she had gone to high school with the previous year before things fell apart. Occupying foreign troops just don’t have to worry as much about retaliation. So I’m going to guess the risk is much higher in a war zone. Also, in many of those war-torn societies, being a victim of rape was considered shameful, and of course, there wasn’t a lot the occupied could do about it so why report unless pregnancy resulted? So the incidence of rape is probably grossly underreported despite those seeming high numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/5 "2016-04-20T18:13:21Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > **Of course, during the breakdown of authority in a war zone, anything can happen.** It does not have to be foreign soldiers. I remember reading a report about rapes in Yugoslavia as it fell apart. Semi-organized militia gangs and disorganized groups of thugs with guns could do almost anything they liked; one girl reported the group of men who assaulted her were people she had gone to high school with the previous year before things fell apart. Occupying foreign troops just don’t have to worry as much about retaliation. So I’m going to guess the risk is much higher in a war zone. Yes, but then why do college campuses - comparatively much more orderly, tranquil and well-administered than a war zone - have equal or even higher rates of rape than the reported war-zone figures? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/6 "2016-04-20T18:20:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yes, but then why do college campuses - comparatively much more orderly, tranquil and well-administered than a war zone - have equal or even higher rates of rape than the reported war-zone figures? You haven’t established that they do. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/7 "2016-04-20T18:30:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yes, but then why do college campuses - comparatively much more orderly, tranquil and well-administered than a war zone - have equal or even higher rates of rape than the reported war-zone figures? You have not shown this. And of course, partially due to the fact the we have changed the definition of “rape”. Back in the 40’s getting a girl drunk and taking advantage of her wasn’t considered “rape”. Some colleges also include things we wouldn’t consider “rape” as “sexual assault”. The goalposts have been moved. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/8 "2016-04-20T18:35:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It is claimed that a very high percentage of women on U.S. college campuses will be raped during their time in college. Who claimed this? What exactly is the claim? Are you talking about this: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/survey-more-than-1-in-5-female-undergrads-at-top-schools-suffer-sexual-attacks/2015/09/19/c6c80be2-5e29-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/survey-more-than-1-in-5-female-undergrads-at-top-schools-suffer-sexual-attacks/2015/09/19/c6c80be2-5e29-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html) When you hear stuff like “X in Y people will experience Q problem over Z time at P place”, you have to hear what is actually claimed. If the claim is “1 in 5 women will suffer sexual assault or misconduct this year”, well, that covers a very wide range of behaviors. Rape is a form of sexual assault or misconduct, but some forms of sexual assault or misconduct are not rape. So unwanted touching is sexual assault. And I have no problem believing that very large numbers of women are subjected to unwanted groping. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/9 "2016-04-21T03:06:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Who claimed this? > **[Campus Rape May Be 'Worse Than We Thought,' Study Shows](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/1-in-5-college-study-raped_n_7293068)** > > Campus Rape May Be 'Worse Than We Thought,' Study Shows ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/10 "2016-04-21T03:28:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yes, but then why do college campuses - comparatively much more orderly, tranquil and well-administered than a war zone - have equal or even higher rates of rape than the reported war-zone figures? Well, it _could_ be because in the less orderly, tranquil and well-administered conditions of a war-zone a lot of rapes go unreported or unrecorded, couldn’t it? As the article you link to in post 9, and the ensuing discussion, make clear, reported rates of rape/sexual assualt in college seem to fluctuate wildly from study to study. This may reflect that the data is hugely sensitive to exactly how the question is phrased, and the context in which it is asked. It may also reflect changing or fluid understanding on the part of the survey subjects as to exactly what constitutes rape, or how to categorise their own experiences. So I suspect that any figures we might cite in relation to rape or sexual assault on college campuses can be challenged by other figures, collected with a similar degree of academic rigour but showing a different outcome. And so all data has to be treated as a bit provisional, a bit rubbery. That’s not to deny that there is a very serious issue here; just to say that trying to quantify it in a reliable way may be hard. And it may be much, much harder in a war zone, where there are all these complicating factors and more besides. Yes, rape and sexual assault on college campuses/among young adults is a very widespread and serious problem. No, it may not be possible to quantify it in a way that makes it possible to compare reliably with rapes in a war zone. But does that really matter? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/11 "2016-04-21T03:36:01Z")
There was another kind of rape during WWII. Young women were set aside in concentration camps for the “use” of Kapos if the women were Jewish, or if the were either gentile, or Jewish, but of a more gentile appearance, for the “use” of the guards. Ironically, a lot of these women survived because they were treated this way. They got a little better food, and could shower and have clean clothes-- the guard and Kapos didn’t want lice on the women. So they didn’t get worked to death or starved to death, and were much less likely to die from one of the diseases that ran rampant through the camps. These were still gun-to-the-head type rapes in that the women literally could not refuse. They would be killed right away if they did. The better conditions were incidental, not something they traded for their bodies. I don’t know what long-term plans the Germans imagined for these women, when their assumption was that they’d win the war. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/12 "2016-04-21T03:45:28Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > . . . . I don’t know what long-term plans the Germans imagined for these women, when their assumption was that they’d win the war. It’s an aside, but concentration camps weren’t wartime measures. They predated the war, expanded hugely during the war, and presumably were expected to shrink somewhat after the war, but not disappear. The long-term plans for the Jewish women were of course that they would be killed (as would the Jewish Kapos). For the non-Jewish women, if they were no longer required or wanted for this particular role, they would presumably be reabsorbed into the general camp inmate population. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/13 "2016-04-21T05:21:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not certain it is fair to compare rapes on college campuses with rapes during war. > > Rapes on college campuses are going to be more along the lines of date-rape while in war the rapes are more along the lines having a gun to your head kind of rape. And indeed worse than that, as many of the rapes in Nanjing, for example, were incredibly barbaric and sadistic, and culminated in the victim being killed. (Link in spoiler box because it’s some of the most unpleasant stuff humans have done in modern history :() Not to play down date rape at all but these things are not the same. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking\_Massacre#Rape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre#Rape) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/14 "2016-04-21T13:53:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Anybody know the figures for Germany and US college campuses and able to do a mathematical analysis? With regards to China, IIRC, the population of Nanjing was over half a million at the time the Japanese seized the city. [“Approximately 20,000 cases of rape occurred within the city during the first month of the occupation”](http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/IMTFE-8.html). Mathematically, doesn’t that mean a Chinese woman in Nanjing stood a \*lower \*chance of being raped by a Japanese soldier in that month than a woman who goes to college in the United States for 4 years? Up to 300,000 of the inhabitants of Nanking were murdered. I think it’s safe to assume some rapes may have been unreported. There are many reasons why someone on a college campus might not report a rape. In a warzone the fact that those raping you are the ones you would report anything to might make you not open your mouth. And as stated some of these studies cover instances of sexual misconduct that might not even be crimes let alone rape as well as sexual assaults that are not rape. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/15 "2016-04-21T14:17:04Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > … > Not to play down date rape at all but these things are not the same. > … From the article: > [@](#): > > Of students who said they were victims of physically forced penetration, or attempted penetration, about 25 percent said they told university authorities or law enforcement. Of those who said they were victims of physically forced sexual touching or kissing, 7 percent reported the incident. The dominant reason for why students who didn’t tell authorities: **They said it wasn’t serious enough**. Yes, a big difference. Why the statistical difference? First, college is a huge collection of unpaired and looking-to-pair young adults. They are old enough to live on their own, typically, suddenly free from the restraints of parental control, alcohol is available - what could go wrong? Plus, if the guy “makes a move” which could range anywhere from kissing or groping and the girl says “no” and he stops, that still qualifies as a misconduct according to the survey. I remember a similar survey in Canada, shocking number, something like over 50% - until you read the fine print and realize that meant verbal sexual harassment including telling dirty jokes to make the woman uncomfortable… which pretty much defines high school… Plus, “wasn’t serious enough”? Odd choice of words. If as the final line mentions, this was to test “affirmative consent” then it would not surprise me if a huge number of students reported encounters that did not include affirmative consent. > [@](#): > > The survey found that 11 percent of undergraduate women experienced penetration or oral sex without their “active, ongoing voluntary agreement.” This rate ranged from 5 percent to 21 percent among the 27 schools. Note the word “active” consent. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/16 "2016-04-21T14:23:05Z")
On top of that, I suspect that a lot of behavior that might be reported as rape on a modern-day college campus wouldn’t even come into anyone’s mind as being rape back then, wartime or not. So to some degree, you’re looking at apples and oranges, only conjoined by the term “fruit”. The wartime reported rapes were all almost certainly violent rapes, while the college campus ones are predominantly more along the lines of date-rapes or less… violent? Active? sorts like absence of drunken consent, not 3 Russians with submachine guns busting down the door, and wrestling them to the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/17 "2016-04-21T14:48:57Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > These are garbage accusations. Here is a U.S. Department of Justice report: > [Home | Bureau of Justice Statistics](http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf) > > Note: > 6.1 per 1,000 is less than 1%. That is in no way “very high”. Thank you for this reference - good information. I’ve always been dubious of the reports of the absurdly high rates of rape in colleges - rates that just don’t ‘feel right’. From that report (emphases mine - color, italics, bolding, underlining): > [@](#): > > Although conducted at different times, with different samples and reference periods, both NISVS and CSA produced prevalence rates that were substantially higher than the NCVS victimization and prevalence rates. Based on 2011 NISVS data, 2% of all females experienced unwanted sexual contact during the prior 12 months.[sup]1[/sup] _The 2007 CSA findings suggested that **14%** of females ages 18 to 25 who were enrolled in two colleges and surveyed in the United States had experienced a completed sexual assault since entering college_.[sup]2[/sup] In comparison, _in 2010 the NCVS showed that **1%** of females age 12 or older experienced one or more rape or sexual assaults in the prior year_.[sup]3[/sup] For the period 2007–13, the NCVS victimization rate was _ **4.7 per 1,000** _ for females ages 18 to 24 who were enrolled in post-secondary schools (not shown). The red seems absurd - 14%! The blue seems true - 1%, or even less than half, 0.47%. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/18 "2016-04-21T15:11:36Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > The red seems absurd - 14%! The blue seems true - 1%, or even less than half, 0.47%. It’s all in how you define sexual assault. I’m guessing the 14% number includes something like an unprovoked grope or ass-grab, or similar borderline things, while the 1% is probably a much stricter definition. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/19 "2016-04-21T17:06:35Z")
According to Wikipedia, the number of people in East Germany in 1950 was 18 million. Probably a little over half were women, say 10 million. Also according to Wikipedia as many as 2 million women were raped. That is 1 in 5 women. If the stat that 1 in 5 coed is raped is true than the odds that a german woman would be raped and a college girl would be raped are about the same. If the Department of Justice statistics are correct then the German woman would be 40 times as in danger of rape as the coed. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737/20 "2016-04-21T17:30:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s all in how you define sexual assault. I’m guessing the 14% number includes something like an unprovoked grope or ass-grab, or similar borderline things, while the 1% is probably a much stricter definition. But to equate a tit grab with rape is a bit of a stretch and leads to absurd claims that 14% of our college daughters have been raped! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-on-us-colleges-vs-world-war-ii-mass-rapes/752737.md?page=2)