# "Rape" sex?! What the hell is wrong with you people?! (Fucked up!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624 "2002-05-06T21:34:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/101 "2002-05-08T01:28:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamish \* > \*\* > > Which he knows because he’s been viewing it…? \*\* I get suckered in because, as I said, it appears to be innocuous… until the clip loads and you can see that the woman is on the verge of crying and appears to be being screwed brutally. I’m not proud of the fact that I look at porn, but it’s not like I’m seeking out anything more than just people having sex. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/102 "2002-05-08T01:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I saw a banner advertising “MOST VIOLENT REAL RAPES! BANNED IN 50 COUNTRIES!” That’s fucked up, and anyone who justifies it is too. Well…other posters have made the points which had to be made, but since you were responding to me, here’s go : I do think that this kind of advertisment is fucked up, and I would smile if the site owners were prosecuted for “apology of crime” or something similar, if such a law existed. Not only because it’s not a good idea to encourage people who would enjoy pictures of a real rape, but also because I think a large part of the porn industry is ready to make up any lie as long as it gets them some money. And yes, I don’t underestimate human stupidity, and I’m pretty certain there are some people who take this line at face value. That said, I don’t believe for an instant that this sort of claim is actually true, plainly because it makes absolutely no sense to put pictures of a real rape on the net. Not only there would be a high risk of being jailed, but also, pictures of a fake rape are certainly incredibly easier to find or to make than pictures of a rea ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/103 "2002-05-08T02:13:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I saw a banner advertising “MOST VIOLENT REAL RAPES! BANNED IN 50 COUNTRIES!” That’s fucked up, and anyone who justifies it is too. Well…other posters have made the points which had to be made, but since you were responding to me, here’s go : I do think that this kind of advertisment is fucked up, and I would smile happily if the site owners were prosecuted for “apology of crime” or something similar, if such a law existed. Not only because it’s not a good idea to encourage people who would enjoy pictures of a real rape, but also because I think a large part of the porn industry is ready to make up any lie as long as it gets them some money, and I’m fed up with that. And yes, I don’t underestimate human stupidity, and I’m pretty certain there are some people who take this line at face value and actually believe they’re looking at the real stuff. But I would add that someone wanting to ban this kind of porn on the basis it could depict an actual rape isn’t much more bright. I don’t believe for an instant that this sort of claim is actually true, plainly because it makes absolutely no sense to put pictures of a real rape on the net. Not only there would be a high risk of being jailed, but also, pictures of a fake rape are certainly incredibly easier to find or to make than pictures of a real rape. So, if it was worded “MOST VIOLENT RAPES! THE WORST YOU CAN FIND IN 50 COUNTRIES!”, I wouldn’t have much of an issue with the site. The analogy with kiddie porn doesn’t make sense, since you can’t make fake kiddie porn (fake teen porn certainly, but not kiddie porn), so if someone looks at a kiddie porn picture, he’s certain it depicts an actual crime. As for the inability to tell if the rape picture is a fake or not, I would say that there’s no way to tell if someone acting in an ordinary porn movie, for instance, was willing and was paid for it, or if she was compelled to do it, either. So, you could as well make all porn illegal. And yes, like several other posters, I probably need some serious treatment, since I’m in these nasty SM/Domination things, and though I don’t have rape fantasies, I would probably indulge in them if a female partner was asking for it. So, perhaps I’m totally biased and don’t realize to what point I’m fucked up and need urgent professional help. But I must tell you, I believe I’ve some more pressing issues to consider, like what liquor I’m going to pour in this cocktail… ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/104 "2002-05-08T03:11:02Z")
As others have said before, personal decision, freedom of expression, fantasy, yada yada yada. While all this is true, and necessitates keeping the system the way it is, from a more objective view, I believe that rape porn does present a problem. Even though people like **jarbaby** know the difference between real rape and simulated rape, they are related. And I’m really not sure at what point we should think that rape porn creates a problem. I think that, at a certain level, accepting rape videos on the internet makes it an acceptable, **real** fantasy. While that might not be dangerous for females, it could be for males. Which is obviously not to suggest that all people who have rape fantasies actually want to be involved in rape. This is so badly thought out. Anyway, I hope someone gets my point. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/105 "2002-05-08T03:14:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*I’m not a fan of ‘rape porn’ and have no interest in participating in rape fantasy role-playing. But your OP, and the last quote, are just plain fucking stupid. > > While I don’t dig the ‘rape’ thing, some of the things that get me off are things most others would not prefer. And I realize that it’s fantasy. _It’s not real_. So I don’t judge. Hey, whatever floats the boat of law abiding, consenting adults. > You do realize these are faked, right? Or do you have a cite for someone hawking _actual footage_ of rape and torture to the general public for money? \*\* You know, there’s nothing like going through the trouble of crafting a reasoned, well thought-out argument, and then having it totally ignored by a loud-mouthed cretin. How many times must I re-emphasize my main points? > [@](#): > > if putting “rape sex” on the net is okay, we cannot ever know when it is fake and when it is real rape portrayed. Several people have tried to fob this off with things like "it’s highly unlikely . . . " or “they’d get caught, etc.” Again, I return to child porn. Everybody knows its out there, and any one of us could probably find it with ten minutes or less of searching. Obviously, the illegality or posting the stuff and possibility of getting caught hasn’t deterred the people who make this stuff. WHY should “rape porn” be any different? If kiddie porn can be posted all over the world, who is to say that pictures and video of real rapes couldn’t be? And of course, if “simulated” rape is so casually accepted, it will make it impossible to the tell the difference between the two. Well **spooje** , obviously you don’t have a clue as to what I’m getting at. And this thread has been so thoroughly hijacked by some of your fellows, that I guess I’m going to have to spell it out for you all like you were children: Fact #1: There are people out there who enjoy _real_ rape porn. Rare though they may be, there’s no doubt they exist. Fact #2: If _any_ and _all_ rape porn were illegal, it would make life a little more difficult for these people. Fact #3: If _fake_ rape porn becomes common, exactly how do we go about separating the “fake” stuff from the shit showing real rape? It’s all well and good to chant “it’s not real” as if it were so obvious and anybody who doubts it is ignorant. To that I say “prove it”! That’s right, go out and find the people in those pictures and the people who made them, and get sworn testimony from them the photos are faked. Oh, what’s that? You can’t, you say? Unrealistic, you say? Gee, I guess you can’t prove it’s fake at all, can you? So for all we know, that’s real rape we’re looking at. That’s real blood, those are real burns, those are real screams of pain. So if you want to ignore the possibility that a person was really raped to allow someone else to get off, go right ahead. You are displaying your character for all to see. **Hamadryad** , your post, while it drew applause from small-thinkers in the peanut gallery, is just a big fat red herring. In fact, it only supports and legitimizes my point: that this crap should be outlawed. If you go here and scroll to blue cite link #18, you will read the following, which is based on Supreme Court decisions: > [@](#): > > certain commercial speech is not entitled to protection; the informational function of advertising is the First Amendment concern and if it does not accurately inform the public about lawful activity, it can be suppressed Hmm. I ain’t no book genius, but it seems to me that rape isn’t a “lawful activity” by definition. That would mean, your irrelevant witticisms aside, advertising it could therefore be legally banned. And that is my main point, besides saying that it **should** be banned, along with its manufacture. Run along now, and come back when you know something besides pointless sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/106 "2002-05-08T03:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\* > I don’t believe for an instant that this sort of claim is actually true, plainly because it makes absolutely no sense to put pictures of a real rape on the net. Not only there would be a high risk of being jailed, but also, pictures of a fake rape are certainly incredibly easier to find or to make than pictures of a real rape. > \*\* Like I will scream until I’m blue in the face: _ **how the fuck can you tell the difference?!** _ ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/107 "2002-05-08T03:20:12Z")
What’s your position on S&M, bondage and similar pornography? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/108 "2002-05-08T03:20:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, what’s that? You can’t, you say? Unrealistic, you say? Gee, I guess you can’t prove it’s fake at all, can you? So for all we know, that’s real rape we’re looking at. That’s real blood, those are real burns, those are real screams of pain. Darling, in the countries most of us are posting from, we have this thing where someone’s presumed innocent until proven guilty. You are the one asserting that the porn purveyors are guilty of rape. You come up with proof. “It COULD be real!!” isn’t good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/109 "2002-05-08T03:33:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*The analogy with kiddie porn doesn’t make sense, since you can’t make fake kiddie porn (fake teen porn certainly, but not kiddie porn), so if someone looks at a kiddie porn picture, he’s certain it depicts an actual crime. > \*\* And yet, _as I’ve pointed out more than once_, that still dosn’t stop people from posting it. \*\* > [@](#): > > …it makes absolutely no sense to put pictures of a real rape on the net. Not only there would be a high risk of being jailed, but also, pictures of a fake rape are certainly incredibly easier to find or to make than pictures of a real rape. \*\* Well, see my response to your FIRST quote. \*\* > [@](#): > > As for the inability to tell if the rape picture is a fake or not, I would say that there’s no way to tell if someone acting in an ordinary porn movie, for instance, was willing and was paid for it, or if she was compelled to do it, either. So, you could as well make all porn illegal. \*\* I appreciate your attempt at logic, but come on. Are you telling me that if I held a gun to some woman’s head and told her to star in my porno, she’d act her role so well you couldn’t tell if she were compelled or not? This isn’t the same as saying you can’t tell the difference between “fake” rape sex and the real thing. Even in “fake” rape porn, the women are _acting_ as if they were compelled. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/110 "2002-05-08T03:38:37Z")
[How soon they forget.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=47274) Meanwhile, back at the topic… So if the rape-oriented porn was advertised as “simulated rape,” you would no longer have a problem with it, as it is accurately informing the public about a lawful activity (that is, the **depiction** , rather than the **actuality** of rape)? If your primary objection is the misrepresentation of these files (or movies) as “real rape,” then I have no quarrel with you. If it’s the concept of rape fantasy porn in general that offends you…_shrug_…I think that’s a personal choice. There are always going to be individuals who can’t seperate fantasy from reality, and they would find a way to justify their amoral views in some way or another. It can be argued that **in some cases** a medium which was intended as fantasy can push such an individual over the edge…but so can (if you’ll believe the media) rock & roll music and video games. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/111 "2002-05-08T03:43:36Z")
**Lizard** , seeing as how the SCOTUS just pitched the ban on virtual child porn on the basis that if it ain’t real, it ain’t illegal, I think you need to reassess your own understanding of Court precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/112 "2002-05-08T03:52:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lizard \* > \*\* > Well **spooje** , obviously you don’t have a clue as to what I’m getting at. And this thread has been so thoroughly hijacked by some of your fellows, that I guess I’m going to have to spell it out for you all like you were children: > > Fact #1: There are people out there who enjoy _real_ rape porn. Rare though they may be, there’s no doubt they exist. > Fact #2: If _any_ and _all_ rape porn were illegal, it would make life a little more difficult for these people. \*\* :rolleyes: Oh good fuck. It’s the return of the “If it only saves onnnnnne life, wouldn’t it be worth it?!” whine. I thought that died in the '90s. The answer is, of course, “No.” Censoring fiction is not justified by the idea that it might somewhere prevent something at some point. Besides, you’re going on the idea that seeing stuff will encourage people. What about the idea that it’s a safe way for some percentage of potential rapists to get off\* without hurting anyone. Fenris \*Yes, I know rape is often/usually about violence/control more than sex. But not _always_. As long as Lizard wants to play around on the fringes of the bell-curve, let’s explore both ends. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/113 "2002-05-08T03:53:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by racinchikki \* > \*\*What’s your position on S&M, bondage and similar pornography? \*\* I don’t like them, and find them somewhat repugnant, but I don’t think they’re immoral. Like I said, what people do _to themselves_ in the privacy of their own homes is up to them. Besides, in these activities, any subjugation is done with the willful complicity of the subject. But rape porn is another matter. The people who spread it around are gleefully marketing the stuff on the premise that somebody was “really” sexually assaulted. Sorry, (no, I’m not) but I don’t see how this could be harmless. And if rape porn becomes casually accepted, then sickos who like the real thing can stockpile it, and if caught, claim it was faked. In short, it would provide shelter to real criminals. What kind of society have we become, if we say it’s no big deal that somebody makes money off from sexual assault, fake or otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/114 "2002-05-08T03:56:43Z")
::sigh:: Hopeless. I’m leaving. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/115 "2002-05-08T05:02:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\* > IOW: “I’ve already decided that you’re wrong, and I will not listen to anything you say. If you try to defend yourself, I will only ridicule you even more. Now, do you care to defend yourself?” \*\* I merely pointed out that I thought the statement was bullshit. It is up to you to defend it, as you made that claim in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/116 "2002-05-08T05:06:28Z")
Anybody else getting a headache? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/117 "2002-05-08T05:10:10Z")
So posting rape-porn on the net is “bad” because we can’t tell it’s not real? Well, we better not be putting up any pics of someone shooting someone else online, can’t tell if that’s real or not, right? Yet for some reason you keep saying simulated situations of murder don’t qualify, yet simulated situations of rape do. The logic here escapes me. The vast majority of people who have fantasies of “bad” things like that would never do it. Ever have one of those day-dreams of pulling out a gun and blowing away some asshole that has made your day particularly unpleasant for whatever reason? Heck, I’ve had some particularly nasty fantasies myself, and I’m one of the nicer people I know… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/118 "2002-05-08T05:12:17Z")
> [@](#): > > ::sigh:: Hopeless. I’m leaving. You’re probably right, but I’m a masochist, so I’ll give it one more college try. I didn’t feel comfortable considering that _Lizard_ is responding to something that he saw, and I’d never seen anything that could be described as “rape porn.” So, I just spent a half-hour trying to see what we’re making all this noise about. Yeah, it’s ugly, yeah, it’s repellent. My journey started at place that has the domain name “rapeporn”, (in the .net domain,) and followed links from there. I deliberately ignored the majority of sites that explicitly said that the photos were of consenting models of legal age, and tried to find ones which were described either ambiguously or as “real.” Most were obviously taken in a studio setting, with professional lighting, etc. I looked closer at the amateur photos, to see if there were any that _might_ be real. I couldn’t find any. I don’t know… maybe someone might _think_ they were real. Some people thought that the plane in the photo of “Tourist Guy” on top of the WTC was real. Some folks aren’t very visually sophisticated, I guess. IMHO, I think that most of the folks who’re advertising “Real Rape!” are using it in the same way that cheesy radio stations claim to be purveyors of “Real Rock!” Just brainless marketing. While I still consider all the images I viewed as constitutionally protected, (or protected under the Charter, for us Canucks,) I still feel weird about having that stuff sitting in my cache. Good thing my housemate wrote [Internet Shredder](http://www.internetshredder.com/). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/119 "2002-05-08T05:14:07Z")
Ban Stile! Ban Rotten! Ban Lowtax! And for ghod’s sake, ban Wil Wheaton! ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/120 "2002-05-08T05:32:33Z")
You know. . .I don’t like porn. The idea of someone lowering themselves to be filmed in their most private moments simply to make money is something I find absolutely repugnant. I don’t look at porn. I don’t watch porn. Yet, despite the fact that _I_ find it repugnant, I recognize that other people have the right to get off on it. To me, it falls into one of the few truly grey moral areas. To me, it’s disgusting. But to most others, it just _is_. I don’t like it, and I don’t have to. Other people, though, have the right to enjoy whatever they want, and I don’t think less of them for it. It’s a picky little point of my own morality, which only applies TO ME. I believe the same thing about simulated rape porn. If other people get off on it. . .good for them. Besides…I can’t talk. I’m a big fan o’da NC-17 Buffy fics. And I also have rape fantasies–my ex and I were going to do it before we broke up. I did wake up with him on top of me once (just kissing)…best experience of my life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624.md?page=7)