# "Rape" sex?! What the hell is wrong with you people?! (Fucked up!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624 "2002-05-06T21:34:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Stiletto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Stiletto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stiletto)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/161 "2002-05-09T19:35:27Z")
Hey, **Space Vampire**? First off, do you have anything particularly meaningful or memorable to contribute to this discussion, other than repeatedly telling us how _wrong, sick, twisted, and depraved_ we all are? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Space Vampire_ > I can MAYBE EVEN concede that fakey rape-themed porn on SPECIALIZED sites isn’t the end of the world, though I don’t think that’s right either. But even attempting to pass rape porn off as “real” and “violent” for an audience? If you don’t think that’s wrong, go jump off the planet. Oh, bestill my beating heart. As if ‘rape porn’ were the only thing in the whole world that has ever been mis-represented or mis-advertised. Are you one of those people who believes that the WWF is for real, too? And I suppose you answer all those ads you get in your email for a cream to add 17 inches to your penis? Or maybe you only believe that the girls on those porn sites really are 18 year-old virgin cheerleaders? Welcome to the real world. That’s how advertising is done for many things. IT ISN’T ALL TRUE. If you have problems accepting this fact, then I think perhaps _you_ are the one that is sick. Having problems differentiating between fiction and reality _is_ one of the mental dysfunctions listed on the DSM-IV. Unlike rape-fantasy, which is considered to be, like any other fantasy, a normal human expression. According to the [Sinclair Intimacy Institute:](http://www.sexualitydata.com/term.asp?termid=88) > [@](#): > > It is normal for individuals to fantasize. Human sexuality is a dimension of social life that is often rich with many different sorts of fantasies. Sexual fantasies often entail mental scenarios involving persons other than one’s regular partner and include sexual activities considered culturally inappropriate or unacceptable ‘Rape’ porn is simply the pornography market taking advantage of that. It’s _still_ pictures of people having sex. It’s just portrayed in a light that makes it seem more like a particular fantasy. If you don’t like it, don’t look. It sounds like you already feel guilty about looking at porn in the first place, so, gee, if you can’t handle it, maybe you should **stop**? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Space Vampire_ > You all are either defending things sight-unseen that you wouldn’t if you had a better idea of what I’m talking about, or are utterly depraved sub-humans who should be summarily executed. I will be charitable and assume the former; that some bondage-freaks might be offended that others look down on their preference I can understand, but that an overwhelming majority of the people on this board can truly look at the stuff I’m talking about and honestly call it okay is a prospect so horrible it makes me wonder if [VHEMT.org](http://VHEMT.org) might be the way to go. _sigh_ I think you’re missing a major point here. Whether or not a particular fantasy is “okay” is not yours to judge, for anyone but you. If **Jarbabyj** wants to fantasize about, or even act out a fantasy about, being raped, then **that is her prerogative**. If she wants to act out that fantasy, film it, and send a copy to all of her friends, then that is _still_ her prerogative. Your only right in relation to that is that, if you find it posted on the internet, and you don’t want to see it, **DON’T FUCKING LOOK AT IT!** You don’t have to like it, or even think it’s okay. But you didn’t make the movie, or take the pictures, so you don’t have to be okay with it. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Space Vampire_ > God this board can be irritating. Apparently “fighting ignorance” means “accepting everything as okay.” SOME THINGS ARE NOT FUCKING OKAY. No, some things are not okay. Child pornography, for example, is not fucking okay. It’s a crime. The act itself is a crime, and therefore pictures about it are criminal evidence. But pictures of a 19-year-old model who dresses up as a school girl and happens to _look_ younger, is okay. That’s how the law works. So, if somebody is stupid enough to _really_ rape someone, film it, put it on the internet, and charge people money to see it, then a crime has been committed. And that’s not fucking okay. But if all of the adults in the pictures consented and acted out a scenario, then, sorry, whether you like it or not, it is fucking okay. Fighting ignorance sometimes means opening up your mind, rather than your mouth, and listening to other points of view, rather than just spouting your ridiculous invective about other people’s lives. So unless you have something more constructive to offer than your opinion that we’re all sick, twisted perverts who need to be executed, would you please put a stake in it, and shut the fuck up? -Stiletto ---
**Author:** ![kellibelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e480ec/32.png) [@kellibelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellibelli)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/162 "2002-05-09T20:14:15Z")
Holy crap jarbabyj! thanks! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/163 "2002-05-09T20:18:12Z")
anytime peaches 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tyrrell_mcallister/32/16772_2.png) [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/164 "2002-05-09T21:18:39Z")
**Lizard** , I was hoping that you could clear up some confusion I am having about what precisely you’re trying to argue. Here is what I get so far: you believe that pictures that depict rape, but that are not distinguishable from pictures of actual rapes, should be banned. Does this accurately characterize your position? If so, could you please clarify the following? When you say that a picture is not distinguishable from pictures of actual rape, do you mean that ( **A** ) someone, somewhere in the world, would see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape; or, ( **B** ) some adult with normal intelligence, somewhere in the world, would see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape; or, ( **C** ) you, personally, see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape; or, ( **D** ) the majority of adults with normal intelligence in the world would see no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape; or, ( **E** ) a committee of expert photographic analysts, make-up artists, and mainstream pornographers would be able find no reason to think that this is not a picture of an actual rape; or, ( **F** ) officers of the law would be unable to track down the origin of the photograph and verify that the photographer received a signed consent form from the woman in the photograph that was not signed under conditions of duress; or, ( **G** ) officers of the law have not yet tracked down the origin of the photograph and verified that the photographer received a signed consent form from the woman in the photograph that was not signed under conditions of duress? Or do you mean something else entirely? ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/165 "2002-05-09T21:30:47Z")
You know what Stiletto? Fuck you. Belittle my “contributions” if you must, but I don’t see anything more than the same old shit in your post. Blah blah can’t judge other people blah blah. Fuck that, you, and everyone who places open-mindededness above some minimal sense of morality. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/166 "2002-05-09T21:33:43Z")
**Tyrrell** , You left out the most likely: option **(H)**: Anyone who has different tastes or disagrees with Lizard is a yukky, poo-headed pervert. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/167 "2002-05-09T21:44:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Fuck that, you, and everyone who places open-mindededness above some minimal sense of morality. You mean _your_ idea of morality, don’t you? C’mon, fess up. You’re among friends. I was right before, wasn’t I? You really do think anyone who doesn’t agree with you is evil and worthy of your pity, dontcha? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/168 "2002-05-09T21:48:13Z")
Cripes Space Vampire, now you’re suggesting a big ammoral gang bang. Who’s in? ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/169 "2002-05-09T22:00:27Z")
I’m in if I can be tied up and blindfolded next to Mistress jarbabyj and Mistress Dryad! I can bring handcuffs, leg cuffs and a few whips. It can be a potluck kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Stiletto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Stiletto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stiletto)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/170 "2002-05-09T22:57:54Z")
Hey, **Jarbaby** , I hope you didn’t mind me using you as an example…😃 [sub]And hey, can I have a copy, too? Pleeeeeze?[/sub] And now back to our program. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Space Vampire_ > You know what Stiletto? Fuck you. Belittle my “contributions” if you must, but I don’t see anything more than the same old shit in your post. Blah blah can’t judge other people blah blah. Fuck that, you, and everyone who places open-mindededness above some minimal sense of morality. **Space Vampire** I wasn’t _belittling_ your contributions. I was attempting to cause you to _make_ a contribution. So far, you haven’t, really, other than condemning everybody else for their viewpoint by way of your morality. But I guess if “Fuck you” is the best response you can come up with, I won’t bother waiting for anything else intelligent. I don’t place open-mindedness above morality. I just make conscious decisions about issues, by learning about them first. Minds, like parachutes, function best when open. As I mentioned, child porn is wrong. So is rape. So are lots of other things. But there’s nothing wrong with a little pretend. If you don’t like it, go play somewhere else. And if you’re tired of running into things like this surfing random porn on the internet…maybe you should stick to magazines and videos or something. _shrug_ I don’t know of any other way to help you. Now, as far as that immoral gang-bang goes…count me in, too. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. 😃 -Stiletto [sub]If electricity comes from electrons, that must mean that morality comes from morons.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/171 "2002-05-09T23:49:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stiletto \* > \*\* > Now, as far as that immoral gang-bang goes…count me in, too. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. 😃 \*\* Oh no! Stop! Don’t! EEEK! (more, harder, HURT ME…) ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/172 "2002-05-10T00:11:01Z")
This is ridicuous. Why don’t you guys just go over there and pretend you’ve “won” the argument by going “waaahhh you can’t push your morality on other people” and I’ll stay over here and pretend I’ve won by stating what should be fucking obvious to anybody with a shred of decency. If you can’t agree that rape and the explicit marketing of rape (and no, it really doesn’t matter that it’s probably fake. And I still believe that it’s entirely possible that real material is available to those who look.) is wrong, I don’t know what to do with you. ---
**Author:** ![seawitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@seawitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seawitch)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/173 "2002-05-10T00:19:51Z")
**Space Vampire** , if I hold you up next to my ear can I hear the ocean? For the rest of you, don’t think I’m getting left out of the gang bang. I have hospital restraints to bring - no bruises. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stiletto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Stiletto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stiletto)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/174 "2002-05-10T01:11:07Z")
Dammit. There goes that last shred of decency. Now I have to wear a thong. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Space Vampire_ > This is ridicuous. Why don’t you guys just go over there and pretend you’ve “won” the argument by > going “waaahhh you can’t push your morality on other people” and I’ll stay over here and pretend I’ve won by > stating what should be fucking obvious to anybody with a shred of decency. If you can’t agree that rape > and the explicit marketing of rape (and no, it really doesn’t matter that it’s probably fake. And I still > believe that it’s entirely possible that real material is available to those who look.) is wrong, I don’t know > what to do with you. Jeezus. It’s like being in an argument with _Eliza_. There are elements of what I said in the reply, but they really don’t have anything to do with what I said. They just sorta echo the same idea, over, and over, and over, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I _AGREED_ with you that rape is **wrong** , **Space Vampire**. I personally think we should apply capital punishment for rape convictions. It’s not a sex crime so much as it is a hate crime that uses sex as the vehicle. But I don’t believe that censorship is going to stop rape. It just isn’t going to affect it at all. But if you want to feel like you’ve won, then feel free to go out in the parking lot and play hide-and-go-justify-yourself until you pass out. I’m tired of listening to you regurgitate your ridiculous, judgemental ‘morality’ to the rest of us with no real content or information at all. Hey **Stoid** , I probably won’t hurt you much…but I can do some amazing things with a few silk scarves, a feather, and a bottle of massage oil. Will that do? 😃 -Stiletto [sub]If electricity comes from electrons, that must mean that morality comes from morons.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/175 "2002-05-10T01:31:32Z")
But you see, I never EVER said that we should apply censorship to stop rape, or that any such measures might make a dent in rape statistics. I can’t be expected to defend assertions that you read into what I’ve written, which amounts to "it is wrong to present violent rape, real or staged, for titillation. " That is my position in its most simplified form. Obviously the real thing is worse than staged stuff, but I still think it’s wrong to celebrate suffering this way. All those people with rape fantasies… I don’t find that healthy, but what people think is up to them. Some things shouldn’t be encouraged though. I’m not sure how I would feel about bringing the law into it, which is why I haven’t said a word about it. Lizard might’ve said something like that somewhere, but we’re not the same person. I guess maybe I should take back “fuck you” if we’re just having problems communicating, but remember it was you who started directing the fuck-word at me, though not as directly. I used it before, but not TO anybody if I recall. And good one, seawitch. Classy. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/176 "2002-05-10T02:14:04Z")
The problem with not allowing to “celebrate suffering” is that it’s done all the time. In regular movies, you see plenty of rapes, and even much more murders. These murder scenes, the blood, the violence etc…are usually included because it attracts more viewer. It has been pointed out to you several times. So, would you forbid the depiction of murders, in particular when presented in a positive way (the “good” guy killing one hundred of “bad” guys) in an ordinary movies? I guess not. I guess your issue is with things which are \*\* sexually\*\* titillating. If not, you would want violent movies, horror movies, etc…to be forbidden too. So, I would ask you : why is being sexually titillated by the depiction of suffering worst than being “intellectually” or “emotionnally” titillated by the depiction of the same? Why is it wrong to pay to see the depiction of a rape because it’s arousing, and right to pay to see the depiction of a murder because it’s exciting? ---
**Author:** ![kore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@kore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kore)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/177 "2002-05-10T02:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stiletto \* > > Hey **Stoid** , I probably won’t hurt you much…but I can do some amazing things with a few silk scarves, a feather, and a bottle of massage oil. Will that do? 😃 trust me on this guys…😃 * * * our family tree may not branch, but it’s got some lovely kinks! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/178 "2002-05-10T02:52:24Z")
**Lizard** , you don’t have to convince anyone here that rape is wrong. (At least, I hope not.) Personally, I find images of rape totally repellent-- I’m right with you there. I don’t think that supplying pornographic images to people who indulge in rape fantasy is unforgivable, and certainly not something that should be outlawed. I personally think that it’s exploitive and disgusting to make millions of dollars by sticking two men in a boxing ring a charging people to watch them beat each other senseless. But I wouldn’t take steps to have my _opinion_ on this matter written into law, even though there is _real_ physical harm being done, and if two guys on the street engaged in the same behaviour they’d face criminal charges. Do gladiator-like games create more violence in the world-at-large by glorifying thugs? Or does it somehow sublimate the violent urges of the spectators? I don’t know either way. I consider that the only sensible recourse I have is to withhold my personal support of such events-- and if it somehow seems germane to the conversation, I’ll offer my opinion-- as my opinion. But I’m not going to froth at the mouth about what a bunch of sick fucks the boxing commision are, and suggest that anyone who derives any pleasure from the sport is exhibiting symptoms of some pathological condition. In my opinion, simulated violence is less reprehensible than real violence, especially when it is for material gain. I reiterate that I’ve met a number of people who enjoy an element of (imaginary) violence & danger in their sexlives – I don’t know if rape-oriented pornography would appeal to them or not. Personal morality is a difficult issue. As long as no one is harmed, it’s repressive to suggest that _any_ behaviour should be discouraged. I suggest you take a look at the _Cracker_ mystery _Men Should Weep_. It explores the danger of confusing rape fantasy with _actual_ rape. Does a woman’s admission that she indulges in rape fantasy imply that she is more likely enjoy being raped in reality? No sane person would suggest that it does. Conversly, does a man’s admission that he indulges in rape fantasy imply that he is likely to commit a rape in reality? If you feel that it is so, why so? There are plenty of forms of entertainment that I find objectionable or offensive. I don’t look at them. I admit I may feel some contempt for people who do enjoy the things I find repellent. That’s probably human nature. But I most certainly _do not_ consider that my subjective _ethos_ is some sort of universal law that should be _enforced_ at the expense of those that disagree with me. I might, but I worry that I might hurt my neck trying to get my head that far up my ass. ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/179 "2002-05-10T03:03:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kricket \* > \*\*I’m in if I can be tied up and blindfolded next to Mistress jarbabyj and Mistress Dryad! > I can bring handcuffs, leg cuffs and a few whips. > It can be a potluck kind of thing. \*\* I am soo getting in on this! I’ll bring the whipped cream for “dessert”! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2002, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624/180 "2002-05-10T03:15:34Z")
And to further **Larry** ’s excellent post, I would suggest to **Lizard** and **Space Vampire** that you both read up on the phenomenon of the rape fantasy in reality, what it means, and what its bases are. My stongest recommendation is MArgaret Atwoods brilliant short story “Rape Fantasies.” Beyond that, here’s a WebMD link to get you started: > **[WebMD - Better information. Better health.](https://www.webmd.com)** > > The leading source for trustworthy and timely health and medical news and information. Providing credible health information, supportive community, and educational services by blending award-winning expertise in content, community services, expert... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-sex-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-people-fucked-up/107624.md?page=10)