# Rape should be legal, as long as it's not "violent" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449 "2019-12-06T02:29:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/41 "2019-12-06T20:30:26Z")
Well, morals aside, are they _legally_ justified in just taking it? Isn’t that the difference between entitlement and just a _sense_ of entitlement? If it’s just the latter, then, fine, be a jerk and an asshole. If anyone is seriously advocating for the former, then, well… fuck you, you fucking savage. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/42 "2019-12-06T21:31:21Z")
Having some connection with India, I have heard several Indian men say fucked ip things about sex. A lot of people in Indian society are seriously misogynistic and generally the culture has very unhealthy attitudes towards sex. With the rise of Hindu fundamentalists and the BJP, things seem to be getting worse rather than better. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/43 "2019-12-06T22:33:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Either way, it’s an excellent segway to a call center career. What does a two-wheeled motorized personal vehicle have to do with any of this? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/44 "2019-12-06T22:34:44Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Holy fuck! > > Hope he never works in film again and has trouble earning a living. At least u **ntil he wises up**. No. Not even then. What a piece of sorry ass shit. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/45 "2019-12-06T22:49:56Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but the fact that he is Indian doesn’t surprise me. Based on the horrific cases reported of routine gang rape over there, they have a pretty cavalier attitude towards rape in general. Rather than meekly submitting to rape, killing the rapists might be a better deterrent. I hope it’s not offensive (I’m not Indian so I have no room to judge) but you’re talking about a regional culture, not condemning a race or ethnicity. I mean, I’m American and I know our culture is greedy, materialistic, and entitled. I try not be myself, but that’s my country’s culture. And I consider myself proud of my country, I just know it has serious flaws. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/46 "2019-12-06T22:54:42Z")
I don’t give a damn where the piece of shit is from. I don’t give a fuck about his “culture” either., if this is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/47 "2019-12-06T23:56:35Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > The _only_ think I would equip myself with is not a condom, or a dental dam but a [protective insert](https://www.wired.com/2007/04/rapestoppers-ra/). THen again, I bet this special little buttercup would be screaming _I_ assaulted _him_ by damaging his dick. Sadly, [Snopes reports](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rapex/) that while it’s been invented, it’s never been marketed or available for purchase. Too damn bad, sez I. Rapists deserve this and worse. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/48 "2019-12-07T00:00:07Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > Feeling some amount of entitlement toward sex isn’t the same as genuinely believing rape should be legal. Far more men are in the former category rather than the latter. The latter you hear more from anyone identifying as an ‘incel’, and even though, a lot of the times it comes up they aren’t actually arguing in ‘good’ faith. It’s part of their venting, which _doesn’t make it okay_ (before you freak out at me, too), but is NOT the same thing as promoting rape. > > It’s like comparing leering or sexualized comments to assault and rape. Neither are okay, but they do not equal each other. I agree. Men who think they’re entitled to sex are talking about things like _“I took a girl out for an expensive meal and a movie so she should be willing to have sex with me later that night.”_ That’s different from saying _“I should be able to rape any woman I see as long as I don’t kill her afterwards.”_ Both attitudes are wrong but that doesn’t make them the same. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/49 "2019-12-07T07:01:55Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Umm…say what now? How are you defining ‘fairly typical’ here? And typical among whom? I’m guessing you’ve never heard of “incels”, before? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/50 "2019-12-07T07:17:24Z")
I’ll agree that feeling entitled to sex and supporting rape are not the same thing, as the former thinks the other person should want to have sex with them, while the latter doesn’t care what the other person wants. However, the logical conclusion of the entitlement would inherently lead to rape. If said entitlement were enforced, then one person would get to have sex with the other, regardless of whether they consented. And that would be rape. I actually think realizing this is a big way to show that said feelings of entitlement are wrong. You know rape is wrong, and, if that entitlement were to exist, you’d have to allow rape, which is wrong. Therefore, your entitlement is also wrong. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/51 "2019-12-07T08:16:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ll agree that feeling entitled to sex and supporting rape are not the same thing, as the former thinks the other person should want to have sex with them, while the latter doesn’t care what the other person wants. > > However, the logical conclusion of the entitlement would inherently lead to rape. If said entitlement were enforced, then one person would get to have sex with the other, regardless of whether they consented. And that would be rape. > > I actually think realizing this is a big way to show that said feelings of entitlement are wrong. You know rape is wrong, and, if that entitlement were to exist, you’d have to allow rape, which is wrong. Therefore, your entitlement is also wrong. God, this won’t make any sense at all. What if nobody’s lying about rape? What if rapists genuinely (conveniently) believe it’s not rape without guns? And if the woman feels terrified to speak or resist, she ain’t lying, either. I keep thinking of those two Swedish students who came across Brock Turner, and how upset they are by it, years later. And how Turner tried to argue it was “outercourse.” And how his dad described it as “20 minutes of action.” And how his friend said it couldn’t be rape because there was no van, no gun. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/52 "2019-12-07T08:35:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Do you find debating is easier for you when the other person isn’t saying anything? No, I find it easier when they’re not spewing crap. > [@](#): > > None of them call for the legalization of rape or report on people calling for that. Which is the claim you were making back at the start of this debate. Was I? Care to quote me saying that, rather than just addressing the man’s attitude? “Rape should be legal” is a specific desired policy, not an attitude. The attitude is rapey incel entitlement. Now stop attacking the person attacking the wannabe-rapist, and get back to attacking the wannabe-rapist. Or fuck off, whichever you prefer. > [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Unfortunately, our last encounter proved to me that you are _gleefully_ uncharitable in your interpretations of other people’s posts. You positively enjoy interpreting other people’s posts in the worst possible light. So that’s how I’ll be with you. I’m as charitable as I believe my opponent deserves. Known racist shitstains like you deserve no charity. And there’s “charitable”, and then there’s “just plain ignoring subsequent posts because I’m a RW arsehole simpleton who thinks he can score points off someone even though I’m very much mistaken as to my ability to debate without drooling on my keyboard” > [@](#): > > You said that the idea of legalising rape was “typical” (I won’t accept your substitution of ‘not unusual’ because they aren’t synonymous). Your blizzard of cites don’t prove that. You might want to look up all the dictionary definitions of “typical” before you go mouthing off on what it is and isn’t. And then reread what I actually said in my first post, which didn’t mention anything about legalizing rape and only speaks to his attitude. And I \*totally \*believe you read all my cites, anyway. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > the charge that you were talking about Indian men, specifically. I \*\*\*love \*\*\*it when racists think they’ve caught a glimmer of hypocrisy in an anti-racist and pounce on it with all the ferocity and dexterity of a blind, deaf, three-legged, microcephalic, mangy kitten chasing a mouse. You really fucking suck at it, and you look like shit while doing it, is what I’m saying. I said outright who I was talking about. Trying to make this about me singling out Indian men is just laughable. Ha. There, see, I laughed. Now fuck off back to Clown School, Bozo. > [@Kovitlac](#): > > Feeling some amount of entitlement toward sex isn’t the same as genuinely believing rape should be legal. Characterising the attitudes in my cites as just “some amount of entitlement” is such a misguided reading that I have to believe you’ve not actually read them. In which case (I think you know where this is going): Fuck off! > [@](#): > > Well aren’t you a ray of sunshine… Not while dealing with Rape Culture apologists, I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/53 "2019-12-07T09:33:31Z")
> [@Mr Dibble](#): > > I’m as charitable as I believe my opponent deserves. You quite clearly _enjoy_ being uncharitable. It’s a pretty consistent subtext across nearly all your posts, and not just in the Pit. You fling accusations of bigotry and racism around with a kind of gleeful irreverence. Face it, you’re a poster child for the [Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIFT). So I _strongly_ suspect your assessment of what your “opponent” deserves is heavily influenced by your deep-seated need to be a fuckwad to them. > [@Mr Dibble](#): > > Known racist shitstains like you deserve no charity. Hey, _you’re_ the one who said the typical Indian man wants rape to be made legal, not me. No matter how hard you back-pedal from your initial post and try to move the goalposts so you don’t have to admit you fucked up, that _was_ what your original post actually said, in context. > [@Mr Dibble](#): > > And there’s “charitable”, and then there’s "just plain ignoring subsequent posts… I didn’t ignore it. I noted that it didn’t say what your original post said and that you were artlessly moving the goalposts and covering your tracks with a blizzard of irrelevant cites and gratuitous “fuck yous” so you didn’t have to admit that you _said a very fucking racist thing_ in your initial post. I then noted that, if our positions were reversed, you would mercilessly hold me to the wording of that initial post because to do otherwise would cost you an opportunity to be a cunt to someone on the internet, and you’d rather cut your own throat than do that. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/54 "2019-12-07T10:41:44Z")
> [@margin](#): > > What if nobody’s lying about rape? What if rapists genuinely (conveniently) believe it’s not rape without guns? And if the woman feels terrified to speak or resist, she ain’t lying, either. That was the argument of the defense in the Manada rape (and in so many others): “she didn’t claw and kick and fight, therefore it wasn’t rape.” I will let Javi Ruiz de Arcaute answer for me. Twits can be found complete [here](https://www.huffingtonpost.es/entry/la-aplaudida-reflexion-de-un-tuitero-sobre-la-victima-de-la-manada-que-estremece_es_5c8acb61e4b0669403296e7c); translation of the extract mine. “When I was 20 years old I was robbed… he didn’t even show me a weapon… as I wasn’t carrying enough, he had me take money from the ATM… nobody doubted that it was ‘robbery with threats’… But when something much worse, a rape, takes place, we investigate the victim and everything they’ve done before or since.” If I do not file taxes because I did not realize I had to, whichever IRS-type agency is involved will still want their taxes, the fine and the interest. “I didn’t know” isn’t an excuse. And how the fuck does someone not know that someone frozen like a mannequin is very much NOT enjoying it, is beyond me. It speaks of a level of retardation that should be under legal tutelage of the courts for life. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/55 "2019-12-07T11:38:21Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > You fling accusations of bigotry and racism around with a kind of gleeful irreverence. Funny how it almost always is at actual fucking racists, like yourself. > [@](#): > > Hey, _you’re_ the one who said the typical Indian man wants rape to be made legal, not me. There’s nothing racist in my initial post, and all your mindless flailing isn’t going to put it there. But flail away, I have no fear anyone with half a brain actually buys the bullshit you’re selling. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/56 "2019-12-07T12:21:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Funny how it almost always is at actual fucking racists, like yourself. As I said in our last encounter, no sane person familiar with your posting history takes accusations of racism from you seriously. It’s like being called a commie by Ron Paul or something. It means nothing. I’m sure _you_ think the people you call racist are racist, but since the only evidence you can bring to the table to back up your accusations are posts which you _deliberately and determinedly_ interpret in the _worst possible light_, it hardly makes the accusations fair. Especially since it’s so obvious from the tone of your posts that you actively enjoy the unfairness of it all, as well as the inevitable slanging matches that follow. You get off on it. > [@](#): > > There’s nothing racist in my initial post, and all your mindless flailing isn’t going to put it there. But flail away, I have no fear anyone with half a brain actually buys the bullshit you’re selling. **Isosleepy** said only crazy people think _rape should be legal_, and that _in India_, with its large population, you’re inevitably going to have more _crazies_ than you would in a country with a smaller population. That’s fine. That’s just basic math. In response to that post _and that post only_ you said this attitude was “typical”. It’s perfectly fair to read that post as saying a typical Indian man thinks rape should be legal. If you wanted to communicate something else then you did a _really_ shitty job. Now, I could, if I were so inclined, overlook this and assume the point you were making was more general. But that would involve being charitable. And since I know from our last encounter that you’d never in a million years extend that sort of charity to anyone else, I’m not going to extend it to you. You obnoxious, dishonest, partisan, race-baiting piece of shit. So yeah. As far as I’m concerned, all you’ve done in this thread is out yourself as a racist bigot who thinks Indian men want to legalise rape, and then further out yourself as a goalpost shifting liar when called on it. You think it’s unfair? Tough shit. I’m only doing what you would’ve done. Feel free to have the last word, Reply Guy. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/57 "2019-12-07T12:30:48Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > As I said in our last encounter, no sane person familiar with your posting history takes accusations of racism from you seriously. They don’t need to go on my say-so. They can go on you [calling people race traitors](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21999566&postcount=258). And still trying the hypocrite tactic, I see. Well, if there’s one thing racists like you have going for yourselves, it’s never letting go of a dumb idea. It’s literally a foundational requirement. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/58 "2019-12-07T13:29:35Z")
It’s funny in a psychotic way that these people seem to want community ownership of vaginia and female sexuality, to be open and free to anyone which is sort of a socialist/communist viewpoint those many of these people are hard right conservatives. Though I guess they would argue that only the ‘real’ men, those with power, would enjoy such access. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/59 "2019-12-07T16:07:41Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That was the argument of the defense in the Manada rape (and in so many others): “she didn’t claw and kick and fight, therefore it wasn’t rape.” > > I will let Javi Ruiz de Arcaute answer for me. Twits can be found complete [here](https://www.huffingtonpost.es/entry/la-aplaudida-reflexion-de-un-tuitero-sobre-la-victima-de-la-manada-que-estremece_es_5c8acb61e4b0669403296e7c); translation of the extract mine. > > “When I was 20 years old I was robbed… he didn’t even show me a weapon… as I wasn’t carrying enough, he had me take money from the ATM… nobody doubted that it was ‘robbery with threats’… But when something much worse, a rape, takes place, we investigate the victim and everything they’ve done before or since.” > > If I do not file taxes because I did not realize I had to, whichever IRS-type agency is involved will still want their taxes, the fine and the interest. “I didn’t know” isn’t an excuse. And how the fuck does someone not know that someone frozen like a mannequin is very much NOT enjoying it, is beyond me. It speaks of a level of retardation that should be under legal tutelage of the courts for life. My point, badly-made, was maybe that that realization would somehow indicate a better angle of attack. I had an encounter with a guy who really, _really_ believed that he wasn’t trying to commit sexual assault. Lying to himself created this wonderful fantasy world where he was a great husband and platoon sergeant who was constantly beset by lying seductive harpies. To protect that fantasy world I really think he would have----or might have since-----killed anyone who posed a threat. I wonder how many predators like him are out there. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449/60 "2019-12-07T16:28:55Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > Feeling some amount of entitlement toward sex isn’t the same as genuinely believing rape should be legal. Far more men are in the former category rather than the latter. The latter you hear more from anyone identifying as an ‘incel’, and even though, a lot of the times it comes up they aren’t actually arguing in ‘good’ faith. It’s part of their venting, which _doesn’t make it okay_ (before you freak out at me, too), but is NOT the same thing as promoting rape. > > It’s like comparing leering or sexualized comments to assault and rape. Neither are okay, but they do not equal each other. > > Well aren’t you a ray of sunshine… Leering and sexual harassment and rape are proof of the same mindset and exhibit hatred toward women. Each of the smaller things makes it easier to get away with the more violent acts on the far right of the scale. So at the left you’d have sexist beliefs, then slurs, then insults lobbed at actual women, verbal attacks to womens’ faces, then accidental-on-purpose-touching (that somehow the offender never accidentally does to men), and so on, all the way up to rape. People who jeer at sexual harassment are making it easier for rapists to rape and get away with it. Given what Lisak, etc., etc., found by interviewing actual rapists, when you tell a rape joke or say something sexist about a woman, if there’s ten guys who hear or read either, at least one of them is an actual rapist. I read something chilling from a woman.who spent thirty years working with victims of childhood sexual abuse. She said, “The child rapist makes the rape of adults easier” (for the rapist, because I know the righties here LOVE to nitpick and play dumb.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-should-be-legal-as-long-as-its-not-violent/844449.md?page=4)