# Rape victim gets 200 lashes - (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2007, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641 "2007-11-16T03:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/141 "2007-11-26T19:10:03Z")
I look forward to the day when we have enough non-oil (including safe, efficient nuke) energy to tell them all bub-eye. We have plenty of oil in the US, or so I’ve read, to take care of the non-energy needs for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/142 "2007-11-26T20:14:10Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] I don’t, and apparently the Saudis don’t either. It sure is fun attacking a big straw man though, isn’t it? What’s NOT civilized is to say “I wish we didn’t need something (insert hated ethnic/religious group) people have, so that we could just let them all die.” Seriously, who’s the barbarian here? [/QUOTE] Could you advise why it’s a strawman to say that the Saudis favour whipping as a crime for being raped? Or why hoping for alternatives to oil as a fuel, thus depriving Saudi of their primary source of income, is equivalent to wishing they would all die? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/143 "2007-11-26T21:39:16Z")
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat] Could you advise why it’s a strawman to say that the Saudis favour whipping as a crime for being raped? [/QUOTE] If you’ve been followin the conversation, then you know that **Mosier** was responding to **Tagos** who was responding to **Paul in Saudi**. And what **Tagos** said to **Paul in Saudi** was that the Saudi Arabian citizens around the office where he works should be told that whipping women for being raped is bad. And if you’ve been following the conversation, you know that **Tagos** ’s comment didn’t make any sense, since what **Paul in Saudi** has been saying si taht the Saudi Arabian citizens around the office whre he works _think whipping women for being raped is bad_. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/144 "2007-11-26T21:52:24Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] I look forward to the day when we have enough non-oil (including safe, efficient nuke) energy to tell them all bub-eye. We have plenty of oil in the US, or so I’ve read, to take care of the non-energy needs for a while. [/QUOTE] That’s all great and everything, but how does that help what is going on? I mean, people can feel all good about not supporting a government that condones _sharia_, but it will still happen, and that’s really sickening to me. Not importing oil isn’t going to stop people from being beaten to death for daring to be a victim. If anything, it may make things worse. Why yes, I am young and naive and overly idealistic, why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/145 "2007-11-26T22:05:34Z")
[QUOTE=Queen Bruin] That’s all great and everything, but how does that help what is going on? I mean, people can feel all good about not supporting a government that condones _sharia_, but it will still happen, and that’s really sickening to me. Not importing oil isn’t going to stop people from being beaten to death for daring to be a victim. If anything, it may make things worse. Why yes, I am young and naive and overly idealistic, why do you ask? [/QUOTE] 😕 What you said would be better characterized as cynical, not idealistic. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/146 "2007-11-26T22:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] 😕 What you said would be better characterized as cynical, not idealistic. [/QUOTE] Wait a tick… I don’t think she’s young or naive, either! ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/147 "2007-11-26T22:07:40Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] 😕 What you said would be better characterized as cynical, not idealistic. -FrL- [/QUOTE] Well cynical on the one hand I guess - idealistic that perhaps other people might give a shit about what goes on in the Middle East beyond oil. [QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Wait a tick… I don’t think she’s young or naive, either! [/QUOTE] I’m 26…that’s still young. Right? RIGHT?! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/148 "2007-11-26T22:08:06Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Another (minor) development. The Economist this week has a little sidebar on this case. It made it through the censors for some reason. (When I got here, they used to censor crossword puzzles.) I mentioned again at the office. People were fascinated to discover people in on the internets were talking about it. [/QUOTE] Was the lack of information about this in the Arabic language press because of censorship or because this kind of thing is common? If some wacko judge here did something like this, it would be all over the papers, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/149 "2007-11-26T22:50:04Z")
OK, I’m no fan at all of Sharia, it’s antiquated and, like most religious legal systems, will stretch as far as you want in the direction of being mean and misogynistic. OTOH, there are a few misconceptions going on that tend to make things seem worse than they actually are. a) The woman is **NOT** being lashed because she was raped. The woman is being lashed because she was riding around with a non-related male. I know that seems very weird and amazingly unfair to most Westerners but them’s the rules under Sharia. Had the men broken into her house or snatched her off the street, we wouldn’t be having this debate/pitting and they would very likely have faced the death penalty. Under religious law women are basically fucked, and don’t even get a kiss afterwards. I allowed my wife to travel to the Eastern province with other families occasionally and had to get a certificate authenticated by the Chamber of Commerce. That’s how screwed women are under religious legal systems. b) She isn’t being, as several people have said, “whipped to death.” As I mentioned a page or so back, there are limits on how hard someone can be hit and AFAIK, no one has been whipped to death in living memory. This is more humiliation and bruising than a serious death threat. They have similar penalties on the books for some traffic violations. c) Odds are, she won’t be whipped at all. Just like other legal systems, a lot of vicious penalties for things get handed down and later plea-bargained or whatever you want to call it, into something much more reasonable or the whole thing is just dropped. People I know that have run afoul of the law here have been made to do things like signing a document promising not to do it again. d) Her sentence being increased is due, effectively, to what we would call “Contempt of Court.” And yes, I agree that a court handing out this kind of thing **should** be held in contempt but again, them’s the rules under Sharia. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/150 "2007-11-26T23:14:48Z")
Here’s some more Happy Fun Sharia Law for everyone, this time from Sudan. From: [TIME | Current & Breaking News | National & World Updates](http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1687755,00.html?cnn=yes) > [@](#): > > It probably seemed like the most innocent of ideas to the newly arrived teacher from England, still settling into life in the Sudanese capital Khartoum. She asked her class of six and seven-year-olds to dress up and name a teddy bear, and keep a diary of his outings. She hoped it would provide material for projects for the rest of the year. And it might have, except for the name the children chose for their bear: Muhammad. > > Now Gillian Gibbons, 54, is spending her second night in a Sudanese prison, accused of insulting Islam’s Prophet. She faces a public lashing or up to six months in prison if found guilty on charges of blasphemy. > > (SNIP) > > “We tried to reason with them but we felt they were coming under strong pressure from Islamic courts,” said Boulus. “There were men with big beards asking where she was and saying they wanted to kill her.” > > (SNIP) > > A seven-year-old girl brought in her favorite cuddly toy and the rest of the class was invited to name him. After considering the names Hassan and Abdullah, they voted overwhelmingly in favor of Muhammad — the first name of the most popular boy in the class. Think about that. People wanting to murder a woman in cold blood because she allowed a class to name a teddy bear the same as the first name of a student in the class. Nope, nothing wrong there. And who are we to judge from our high, hateful, moral Western horses? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/151 "2007-11-26T23:14:46Z")
Oh, well, that makes it all okay! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/152 "2007-11-26T23:28:51Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Oh, well, that makes it all okay! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] **Guinastasia** Why no, that doesn’t fucking “make it all OK.” And a rolleyes right back at ya. Nevertheless, if someone wants to pit something or someone then at least make it accurate and try not to come across as a Goddamn hysteric. Living where I do, I suspect I have one hell of a lot better reasons to dislike Sharia and I’m one fuck of a lot less tolerant than most of the goody-two-shoes, we’re all enlightened, don’t paint with a broad-brush types on here. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/153 "2007-11-26T23:37:47Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] Here’s some more Happy Fun Sharia Law for everyone, this time from Sudan. From: [TIME | Current & Breaking News | National & World Updates](http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1687755,00.html?cnn=yes) Think about that. People wanting to murder a woman in cold blood because she allowed a class to name a teddy bear the same as the first name of a student in the class. Nope, nothing wrong there. And who are we to judge from our high, hateful, moral Western horses? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] **Una** I wish to Christ they’d train those people before they send them some third-world-shithole like Sudan. There should have been a “get out of Dodge” plan in place and she should have been drilled in it. FWIW, they _probably_ won’t get to kill her but the reasons will be political rather than common sense. The “bearded guys” they’re talking about are what we call “mutawwa” in Saudi and they really **believe** that crap and think they ought to kill her. Just one more item of the joys of theocracy. And no, before **Guinastasia** gets snarky again, that doesn’t “make it all better.” Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/154 "2007-11-27T00:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=Queen Bruin] That’s all great and everything, but how does that help what is going on? I mean, people can feel all good about not supporting a government that condones _sharia_, but it will still happen, and that’s really sickening to me. Not importing oil isn’t going to stop people from being beaten to death for daring to be a victim. If anything, it may make things worse. Why yes, I am young and naive and overly idealistic, why do you ask? [/QUOTE] I’m 62. What we’re doing now, supporting the regime, isn’t helping any. You know why? Because the Saudis have us by the short hairs. Just possibly, if we don’t need their oil so much the tables would turn. Maybe we could actually bring some pressure to bear on them for a change. Maybe not, but I’m not sure it could get much worse. Should we all feel good about actively supporting a regime that condones this “sharia”? We can feel comfortable with the benefits of that support, can’t we? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/155 "2007-11-27T00:54:14Z")
[QUOTE=Testy] **Una** I wish to Christ they’d train those people before they send them some third-world-shithole like Sudan. There should have been a “get out of Dodge” plan in place and she should have been drilled in it. FWIW, they _probably_ won’t get to kill her but the reasons will be political rather than common sense. The “bearded guys” they’re talking about are what we call “mutawwa” in Saudi and they really **believe** that crap and think they ought to kill her. Just one more item of the joys of theocracy. [/QUOTE] With no snark intended at all, out of curiosity is a child who names a teddy bear “Muhammad” entirely on their own whim subject to the same punishment? What if it was an adult with a teddy bear (hey, look around the SDMB), and not a child? Or was the woman being punished just because she was “Western?” For that matter, if the name of the Prophet is so sacred, why allow a human being to be named the same? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/156 "2007-11-27T01:50:37Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] With no snark intended at all, out of curiosity is a child who names a teddy bear “Muhammad” entirely on their own whim subject to the same punishment? What if it was an adult with a teddy bear (hey, look around the SDMB), and not a child? Or was the woman being punished just because she was “Western?” For that matter, if the name of the Prophet is so sacred, why allow a human being to be named the same? [/QUOTE] Aren’t children, up to a certain age, exempt from the laws? I don’t know where I heard that. The age of reason, I think, like in catholic laws? Please don’t yell at me. 😉 Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/157 "2007-11-27T02:44:54Z")
Muhammad is the most popular name in the world. A healthy percentage of those so named **have** to be assholes. Yet it is ok to name an asshole Mohammad, but not an innocent toy in which a child takes joy. Color me confused. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/158 "2007-11-27T03:04:47Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Muhammad is the most popular name in the world. A healthy percentage of those so named **have** to be assholes. Yet it is ok to name an asshole Mohammad, but not an innocent toy in which a child takes joy. Color me confused. [/QUOTE] To be fair, only the grievous cases get reported. For every case like this, I bet there are at least _ten_ other Muhammad-teddy-bear incidents that _didn’t_ lead to ignorance-fuelled mindless persecution. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/159 "2007-11-27T03:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Muhammad is the most popular name in the world. A healthy percentage of those so named **have** to be assholes. Yet it is ok to name an asshole Mohammad, but not an innocent toy in which a child takes joy. Color me confused. [/QUOTE] Why? You find it surprising that different religions have differing views about proper use of their deity’s name/picture/depiction? ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641/160 "2007-11-27T03:20:06Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] I’m 62. What we’re doing now, supporting the regime, isn’t helping any. You know why? Because the Saudis have us by the short hairs. Just possibly, if we don’t need their oil so much the tables would turn. Maybe we could actually bring some pressure to bear on them for a change. Maybe not, but I’m not sure it could get much worse. Should we all feel good about actively supporting a regime that condones this “sharia”? We can feel comfortable with the benefits of that support, can’t we? Peace, mangeorge [/QUOTE] Oh - I agree that supporting the regime is doing no good. I just don’t see being independent of foreign oil as a solution to human rights abuses. It simply removes us from the picture, is all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rape-victim-gets-200-lashes-ro/426641.md?page=9)