# Raped at the pump again - when will it end? What can we do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697 "2005-08-26T04:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Big\_Whistle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Big\_Whistle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Whistle)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/141 "2005-08-28T13:57:49Z")
I won’t bother to read the postings after the OP. I simply answer the OP with common sense: Don’t purchase any more gasoline than you absolutely must, and always from the station with the lowest prices. Reduced demand will result in reduced prices. Turn in that gas-hogging SUV and buy a sensible sedan that gets good milage. Don’t take five trips to the corner market each day for cigs and beer. String trips and put them all on one day. Carpool to work. We started doing all these things after the shocks of '73 and '78. You would think we had learned. :rolleyes: Having said that, the current market is driven in large measure by demand for oil in China and India. The US government has spent the last 30 years trying as hard as it can to artificially hold oil (and thus, gasoline) prices as low as possible; sooner or later that was bound to fail. Our disruption for the last 15 years of oil production in Iraq hasn’t helped at all. Still, you try to control what you can, and that starts in your garage. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/142 "2005-08-28T17:16:06Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > To the contrary. … They are pumping at a 26 year high, and the price is determined by world demand. Are you just mad at their geographic good fortune? Look. You can answer a question without accusations. I was asking for information that I didn’t have. No need to be snippy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/143 "2005-08-28T17:48:16Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > The Middle Eastern oil ticks are properly terrified of losing world oil revenues and will do everything in their power to keep the money going while gouging us right up to a quarter of an inch of the point where they lose the market. How dare those damned Ay-rabs charge decent white folk the market rate for something! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/144 "2005-08-28T18:19:41Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Oh yeah, I also need to pull a 22ft ski boat. That complicates things a bit. I checked and the Ford Escape Hybrid can only handle up to 1000 lbs Towing. > **[Ford® - New Hybrid & Electric Vehicles, SUVs, Crossovers, Trucks, Vans...](https://www.ford.com/)** > > Ford® is Built for America. Discover the latest lineup in new Ford vehicles! Explore hybrid & electric vehicle options, see photos, build & price, search inventory, view pricing & incentives & see the latest technology & news... So no relief for you. 😉 With the price of Gas right now you’ll probably be hauling the boat less anyway. I remember in ‘73 my Father stopped taking his 16’ fishing boat out. I’m sure he had a smaller engine then yours would require. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/145 "2005-08-28T22:03:25Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I recommend a penny a gallon tax on gas at the pump to be used for all those forms of research. At 2004 gas consumptions levels of 382.4 million gallons of motor gasoline consumed per day, that amounts to $1.4 billion per year, which oughtta get a few Manhattan projects going in various universities. > > Any significant discoveries made from such research units could be sold to energy firms for royalties which could be used to fund more research. > > I know you conservatives hate taxes, but this is a tax that will deal with a real problem, unless you LIKE being jerked around by the balls by Big Oil and Middle Eastern oil ticks. Is this **in addition to** or **instead of** the DoE’s $23B bduget for 2006? If the latter, then I’d be happy to champion your idea. As for conservatives hating taxes, you’d have to ask one of them how they feel, but I suspect that conservatives, like most other types, dislike waste more than the taxes themselves. I find if hard to believe that the current budget isn’t adequate, if managed properly, to fund any necessary reaearch. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/146 "2005-08-28T22:49:28Z")
A woman walks approaches a policeman on the street. Her clothes are askew and she’s crying. “I was raped at the gas station up the road,” she says to the officer. “It’s outrageous what they’re charging these days, isn’t it,” he says. - rim shot \* Seriously, I find such hyperbole to be in very poor taste and insensitive. You weren’t raped, and you shouldn’t say you were. You paid for something you wanted and paid more than you wanted to, and now you think you’re comparable to rape victims? I think that makes you the world’s worst analogist. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/147 "2005-08-28T23:11:40Z")
As to the belief that gas taxes should be increased to fund additional research … well there’s this from that NYTimes article I linked to earlier- > [@](#): > > Politicians remain in the dark. During the 2004 presidential campaign, which occurred as gas prices were rising to record levels, the debate on energy policy was all but nonexistent. The Bush campaign produced an advertisement that concluded: ‘‘Some people have wacky ideas. Like taxing gasoline more so people drive less. That’s John Kerry.’’ Although many environmentalists would have been delighted if Kerry had proposed that during the campaign, in fact the ad was referring to a 50-cents-a-gallon tax that Kerry supported 11 years ago as part of a package of measures to reduce the deficit. (The gas tax never made it to a vote in the Senate.) Kerry made no mention of taxing gasoline during the campaign; his proposal for doing something about high gas prices was to pressure OPEC to increase supplies. > > Husseini, for one, doesn’t buy that approach. ‘‘Everybody is looking at the producers to pull the chestnuts out of the fire, as if it’s our job to fix everybody’s problems,’’ he told me. ‘‘It’s not our problem to tell a democratically elected government that you have to do something about your runaway consumers. If your government can’t do the job, you can’t expect other governments to do it for them.’’ Back in the 70’s, President Carter called for the moral equivalent of war to reduce our dependence on foreign oil; he was not re-elected. Since then, few politicians have spoken of an energy crisis or suggested that major policy changes are necessary to avert one. The energy bill signed earlier this month by President Bush did not even raise fuel-efficiency standards for passenger cars. When a crisis comes – whether in a year or 2 or 10 – it will be all the more painful because we will have done little or nothing to prepare for it. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/148 "2005-08-28T23:49:37Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > A woman walks approaches a policeman on the street. Her clothes are askew and she’s crying. > > “I was raped at the gas station up the road,” she says to the officer. > > “It’s outrageous what they’re charging these days, isn’t it,” he says. > > - rim shot \* > > Seriously, I find such hyperbole to be in very poor taste and insensitive. You weren’t raped, and you shouldn’t say you were. You paid for something you wanted and paid more than you wanted to, and now you think you’re comparable to rape victims? I think that makes you the world’s worst analogist. Fine. I think we should call it the Occurrence at Nanking, because rape isn’t appropriate and it wasn’t a massacre, that wouldn’t be fair to Columbine. Oh, and we should change the name of rapeseed right away because that’s insensitive to women who have been assaulted. Or we could just accept that the word is perfectly acceptable hyperbole with different meanings than just sexual assault. Or maybe you just wanted to be petty and complain. Cool. Niggardly. Niggardly Niggardly Niggardly Niggardly Niggardly. Chew on that for a while, you semantic twit. Anyway, getting back to the matter at hand, my point in posting those EPA statistics wasn’t to demonstrate that everybody drives expensive cars. it was to point out that the worldwide trend is lowered fuel efficiency, and for people to criticize the Americans for their thirst for oil one needs to recognize that with few exceptions European cars are not fuel efficient either and are substantially the same that we drive here. It’s worth noting that the Japanese sell the most desirable cars, the longest lasting cars, and the cars with the highest resale value. They have also long had the most fuel efficient cars. If they simply brought their prices down they’d make a mint and crush GM, Ford, Chrysler, and the European car companies. Instead they keep the prices higher for their vehicles, and while they do just fine the price levels they set are barriers for a lot of people. People will choose the less fuel efficient vehicle because it’s affordable. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/149 "2005-08-29T00:46:16Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Of course we realize that. But we’re not sure that you realize that you can make a hundreds-of-miles journey in safety and comfort in a car that returns 30-40mpg. Over here multi-litre engines are so rare that we talk of capacity in cc’s, not litres, rather more often than not. My first beater of a car was a 1300 and I covered 'prox 80,000 miles in it over five years; I’ve never owned anything bigger than a 2-litre and our present family car is an 1800, with auto transmission, aircon, and airbags. Can it get safely on the interstate (up to 65 in six or seven seconds?) Does it have the power when you need it to make moves? Can you do at least 75 mph (the speed limit on most parts of the interstates out west)? This last one is very important. I’m convinced the national speed limit was pushed through by a bunch of east coast politicans. Out here, where even small towns can be an hour apart and people think of driving to Denver or Phoenix as a reasonable one-day drive, when you’re talking at least 500 miles. The difference between 55 and 75 is astounding out here and if you’re doing 55 on the interstate you’re probably a danger. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/150 "2005-08-29T01:32:19Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Fine. I think we should call it the Occurrence at Nanking, because rape isn’t appropriate and it wasn’t a massacre, that wouldn’t be fair to Columbine. Oh, and we should change the name of rapeseed right away because that’s insensitive to women who have been assaulted. > > Or we could just accept that the word is perfectly acceptable hyperbole with different meanings than just sexual assault. Or maybe you just wanted to be petty and complain. Cool. Niggardly. Niggardly Niggardly Niggardly Niggardly Niggardly. Chew on that for a while, you semantic twit. I thought it was against the rules to insult people in great debates? Nanking was at least an act of prolonged and brutal violence. Overpaying for gas is a minor inconvenience. A minor inconvenience isn’t rape. Don’t muddy the issue by mistaking me for some nitwit who protests at any anology at all. I merely protest very stupid, self-pitying, ham handed, analogies that insult victims of much more serious assault than overpaying for gas. Back to the issue at hand, then: suck it up you crybabies. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/151 "2005-08-29T01:34:38Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Can it get safely on the interstate (up to 65 in six or seven seconds?) Does it have the power when you need it to make moves? Can you do at least 75 mph (the speed limit on most parts of the interstates out west)? I did all that in my 1987 Honda Accord with a 1.9 liter engine that made about 115 hp. None of those things are very difficult, and I question that need to accellerate to 65 in 6 or 7 seconds. Certainly it’s nice to make merging easier, but you can still safely merge at a slower rate. There’s very little _need_ for a car that does 0 to 6 in 6 seconds. You don’t need that to safely merge on the freeway, even in California. All the cars we are talking about can comfortably cruise at 75, most autobahns or autostrasse in Europe have traffic well exceeding that speed. Again, I think we’re manufacturing problems where none exists. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/152 "2005-08-29T02:04:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How dare those damned Ay-rabs charge decent white folk the market rate for something! Doesn’t matter how you or I feel about them doing it – you approve heartily, I guess – they’ll do it, and that’s the point, like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/153 "2005-08-29T02:07:13Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Is this **in addition to** or **instead of** the DoE’s $23B bduget for 2006? If the latter, then I’d be happy to champion your idea. > > As for conservatives hating taxes, you’d have to ask one of them how they feel, but I suspect that conservatives, like most other types, dislike waste more than the taxes themselves. I find if hard to believe that the current budget isn’t adequate, if managed properly, to fund any necessary reaearch. I doubt if it’s being used for research much. Good question, though. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/154 "2005-08-29T02:08:05Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I thought oil was 6% and Nuclear was closer to 30%. But I do remember Coal still topping the list. I post the numbers/breakdown in one thread or another about every 3-6 months. Coal produces about 50-55% depending on how you measure it and which recent year you examine, and oil is between 2-3%. I don’t even need to look these up, because I keep having to post them. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/155 "2005-08-29T02:11:27Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > - funny joke followed by semantic nitpick - I said this before, and I’ll say it again. If you’re going to take this position towards words, then I’d expect you never to use expressions like, “he really killed me at basketball today,” or “this backache is killing me.” Or is rape somehow worse than killing? If what I said about gas trivializes rape, in your opinion, then I hope you never use any sort of casual violent metaphors like the ones I mentioned above. If you do, you’re a hyprocrite! ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/156 "2005-08-29T02:15:08Z")
It’s just a really, really poor use of words. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/157 "2005-08-29T02:31:54Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Can it get safely on the interstate (up to 65 in six or seven seconds?) Does it have the power when you need it to make moves? Can you do at least 75 mph (the speed limit on most parts of the interstates out west)? This last one is very important. I second the question of why one needs to be able to get a car up to 65 in six or seven seconds for it to be safe. You must have really crappy merge lanes out there. I have no trouble merging onto highways here in my Prius and it’s 0-60 time is about 10 seconds, as I recall. As for driving 75, my Prius seems to have no problem maintaining that sort of speed…although admittedly you start losing some fuel economy at those speeds. (I think I’ve gotten fuel economy of ~47 mpg when I have driven consistently at 72-74 mph here on the New York Thruway…still nothing to complain about.) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/158 "2005-08-29T02:34:10Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Anyway, getting back to the matter at hand, my point in posting those EPA statistics wasn’t to demonstrate that everybody drives expensive cars. it was to point out that the worldwide trend is lowered fuel efficiency, and for people to criticize the Americans for their thirst for oil one needs to recognize that with few exceptions European cars are not fuel efficient either and are substantially the same that we drive here. It kind of gets confusing that you seem to be constantly mixing the concept of what the fuel economy is for cars made by European manufacturers but sold in the U.S. with the idea of what Europeans drive in their own countries. Do you comprehend this rather important distinction? ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/159 "2005-08-29T02:36:56Z")
> [@Dominic Mulligan](#): > > Just because you’re happy living under an oppressive government doesn’t mean that everyone must. > > And yes, the level of taxation placed on petrol, a substance necessary to modern life, by the UK government is oppressive. If it’s oppressive, why wasn’t the government voted out of power in the last elections? Or are you claiming that the UK elections are rigged? Because that is the only way your statement even begins to make any sense. Clearly, the high taxes on gas is not enough of a sore point to allow any party to win with “the taxes on petrol are too high, get rid of the current oppressive administration”. And yes, the fact that the US government taxes my income, vital to my survival in modern society, makes them jack-bootin’ Nazis. Oh wait, my mistake, it doesn’t. Not even with a condescending “and yes” prefix! ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697/160 "2005-08-29T02:42:46Z")
I’m not going to opine on it one way or the other, but a huge number of people think that the U.S. government’s current administration is oppressive - and it got voted back into office. Something can be oppressive (or be thought to be oppressive) and still get re-elected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raped-at-the-pump-again-when-will-it-end-what-can-we-do/318697.md?page=9)